SAM fired in New York?

[Bowfinger]

Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

I agree except for your conclusion jumping about a black eye for Bush. Other than that your points raised were good.

 

[1EZduzit]

Anything is possible and someday this will probably happen. However, since this happened in NYC I would think that someone would have a video, photograph, or something??

Maybe they had a near miss with a bird or another plane?? That would be a much higher probability of being the "irregularity" mentioned. Rumors like this are for old ladies.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
I agree except for your conclusion jumping about a black eye for Bush. Other than that your points raised were good.

I don't see the fault in BowFinger's logic. If terrorists were to acquire these weapons and use them against a commercial airline, it would reflect very poorly upon this administration and its efforts in fighting terrorism.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

Probably because this is the Politics and News forum, not the, "Ummm I heard that maybe a SAM or..some birds...ummm, airliner...umm...bad...mkay...terraishst...um...yeah...." forum. But it's cool.

 

[BBond]

Maybe Shades of Grey reads The Political Teen...

RUMOR: SAM Fired At New York America West Flight

(via LGF)

I?ve just received a credible tip from an LGF reader that an America West flight out of New York was fired upon by a surface to air missile yesterday, and that the pilot and passengers witnessed it and are now being questioned by the FAA and FBI.

That?s the extent of the information I currently have, and please note: right now this is completely unverified.

If this is true I wouldn?t be one bit surprised. In fact I?m surprised that this hasn?t been done yet. Do you know how simple it is to park outside an airport, set up, and shoot a missile at a plane taking off? It?s probably easier than it sounds.

Earlier this summer I was interning in Washington and had the chance to see airplanes take off from Reagan Int?l. The area is right outside the take off zone and has quite a view. There are no police, no feds, nothing nearby. You could pull up a car there and launch a missile in a matter of moments. Speaking of which, with all the construction going on at BWI TMBWI, I bet you?d have an easy time doing this type of maneuver.

This event is a wake up call and believe me, we need one.

UPDATE: Michelle Malkin calls America West and gets this response:

On Sept. 15 (Thursday), America West Flight 17 took off from JFK Airport at 6:05pm EDT. The captain ?took the initiative,? says Gee, and reported an ?irregularity? to air traffic control as the plane was ascending. The plane continued to Phoenix and landed safely at 8:55pm MST. FBI and other authorities met and interviewed all of the crew and passengers on the plane. The investigation is continuing.

Gee would not say whether the pilot or other crew or passengers reported witnessing a missile firing.

?Nothing is confirmed,? Gee said.

 

[BBond]

More...

Breaking: Possible SAM Attack Against US Plane

I?ve just received a credible tip from an LGF reader that an America West flight out of New York was fired upon by a surface to air missile yesterday, and that the pilot and passengers witnessed it and are now being questioned by the FAA and FBI.

That?s the extent of the information I currently have, and please note: right now this is completely unverified.

UPDATE at 9/17/05 9:16:00 pm:

Michelle Malkin has more; there was some kind of incident.

I just got off the phone with Phil Gee, associate manager of media relations at America West, who promptly returned my late evening call. Here?s what he told me:

On Sept. 15 (Thursday), America West Flight 17 took off from JFK Airport at 6:05pm EDT. The captain ?took the initiative,? says Gee, and reported an ?irregularity? to air traffic control as the plane was ascending. The plane continued to Phoenix and landed safely at 8:55pm MST. FBI and other authorities met and interviewed all of the crew and passengers on the plane. The investigation is continuing.

Gee would not say whether the pilot or other crew or passengers reported witnessing a missile firing.

?Nothing is confirmed,? Gee said.

UPDATE at 9/18/05 8:08:47 am:

An aviation official tells Michelle the incident was a false alarm:

The sighting was reported near Colt?s Neck, NJ, which is a major route south out of NY. FAA set up a small temporary flight restriction around the area while checking radar files. Turned out to be nothing more than birds, and [a] big game of ?telephone.?

 

[1EZduzit]

Turned out to be nothing more than birds, and [a] big game

Surprise, surprise, surprise!!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Turned out to be nothing more than birds, and [a] big game

Surprise, surprise, surprise!!

Birds have WMD.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

Probably because this is the Politics and News forum, not the, "Ummm I heard that maybe a SAM or..some birds...ummm, airliner...umm...bad...mkay...terraishst...um...yeah...." forum. But it's cool.

:beer:

I don't know if it's true or not; based on BBond's links above, it sounds doubtful (though if Uncle Sugar wanted to cover it up, that's the kind of diversion they'd use, so who knows). I am not surprised, however, that this story was first floated by pro-Bush sources. They desperately need something to frighten Americans again, to draw attentions from BushCo's high-profile failures like Iraq and New Orleans, and to spook the herd back into line.

Even though this has worked well in the past, I think it will backfire this time. Most Americans don't have the blind faith in Bush they had four years ago. They've lost their naïveté about his administration. An incident like this would highlight the sorry fact that while we were confiscating nail clippers and strip-searching Grandma, we've done almost nothing to substantively improve safety. It's all been for show, all hat and no steer. We'll see if it goes anywhere.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

Probably because this is the Politics and News forum, not the, "Ummm I heard that maybe a SAM or..some birds...ummm, airliner...umm...bad...mkay...terraishst...um...yeah...." forum. But it's cool.

:beer:

I don't know if it's true or not; based on BBond's links above, it sounds doubtful (though if Uncle Sugar wanted to cover it up, that's the kind of diversion they'd use, so who knows). I am not surprised, however, that this story was first floated by pro-Bush sources. They desperately need something to frighten Americans again, to draw attentions from BushCo's high-profile failures like Iraq and New Orleans, and to spook the herd back into line.

Even though this has worked well in the past, I think it will backfire this time. Most Americans don't have the blind faith in Bush they had four years ago. They've lost their naïveté about his administration. An incident like this would highlight the sorry fact that while we were confiscating nail clippers and strip-searching Grandma, we've done almost nothing to substantively improve safety. It's all been for show, all hat and no steer. We'll see if it goes anywhere.

I think you overestimate the ability of the government to keep something like this quiet. If it happened, we'd hear about it on CNN or some such, not just random internet sites.

 

[Moonbeam]

BOO

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

Probably because this is the Politics and News forum, not the, "Ummm I heard that maybe a SAM or..some birds...ummm, airliner...umm...bad...mkay...terraishst...um...yeah...." forum. But it's cool.

:beer:

I don't know if it's true or not; based on BBond's links above, it sounds doubtful (though if Uncle Sugar wanted to cover it up, that's the kind of diversion they'd use, so who knows). I am not surprised, however, that this story was first floated by pro-Bush sources. They desperately need something to frighten Americans again, to draw attentions from BushCo's high-profile failures like Iraq and New Orleans, and to spook the herd back into line.

Even though this has worked well in the past, I think it will backfire this time. Most Americans don't have the blind faith in Bush they had four years ago. They've lost their naïveté about his administration. An incident like this would highlight the sorry fact that while we were confiscating nail clippers and strip-searching Grandma, we've done almost nothing to substantively improve safety. It's all been for show, all hat and no steer. We'll see if it goes anywhere.

I think you overestimate the ability of the government to keep something like this quiet. If it happened, we'd hear about it on CNN or some such, not just random internet sites.

I agree ... if they're able to verify the story. The MSM usually don't report rumors.

Just to be clear, I don't put much faith in this story. I just recognize it's possible. I also offered my thoughts on why one might spread the story, true or not.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
it would hurt business......oh, and much less importantly (to the airlines and related businesses), announcing it (if true) might actually save some lives. ie- the movie "jaws" syndrome. or love canal, or something like trying to force drug manufacturers to recall a drug that "only" killed a small percentage of its users.

my feeling that this sam launching rumor is plausable is based on personally experiencing/reading or hearing about many instances where priorities other than the safety of the public comes first.

How can you know whether something is plausible when you can't spell plausible?

 

[arsbanned]

Oh I dunno, it's plossible.

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Not sure why folks are so rabidly dismissing this as beyond consideration. We've been told shoulder-launched missles fell into the wrong hands, and that terrorists have the desire to shoot down commercial aircraft. We were told someone actually tried this at the Baghdad airport. It would also be quite predictable that, if this was attempted against a U.S. civilian plane, the Powers That Be would suppress any reports, both due to the fragile state of the U.S. airlines and because it would be yet another black eye for the Bush administration, underscoring how little they've really done to improve the safety of Americans at home. This absolutely does NOT "prove" the rumor is true, but it seems rather reckless to insist it is not. At this point, we simply do not know, which is why it's perfectly reasonable to seek information confirming or refuting the rumor.

My $0.02.

Probably because this is the Politics and News forum, not the, "Ummm I heard that maybe a SAM or..some birds...ummm, airliner...umm...bad...mkay...terraishst...um...yeah...." forum. But it's cool.

:beer:

I don't know if it's true or not; based on BBond's links above, it sounds doubtful (though if Uncle Sugar wanted to cover it up, that's the kind of diversion they'd use, so who knows). I am not surprised, however, that this story was first floated by pro-Bush sources. They desperately need something to frighten Americans again, to draw attentions from BushCo's high-profile failures like Iraq and New Orleans, and to spook the herd back into line.

Even though this has worked well in the past, I think it will backfire this time. Most Americans don't have the blind faith in Bush they had four years ago. They've lost their naïveté about his administration. An incident like this would highlight the sorry fact that while we were confiscating nail clippers and strip-searching Grandma, we've done almost nothing to substantively improve safety. It's all been for show, all hat and no steer. We'll see if it goes anywhere.

:beer: Total agreement.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: BBond
Maybe Shades of Grey reads The Political Teen...

Nope. Not LGF either.

I do read Michelle Malkin's blog and she was the first place I saw it in print - which was after I posted this thread - ASKING for local info.

So despite what you and others might try to suggest - there is nothing right-wing about this. It's laughable that we have people like Bowfinger trying to angle in for an attack on Bush before the story is confirmed or facts filled in. But hey, nothing like a good conspiracy for the left to feed themselves with.:roll:

 

[BBond]

Well, you asked and I provided the local info that it seems you and your self-hating Michelle Malkin couldn't find.

No wonder your mind is so warped.

Michelle Malkin.

:roll:

 

[Polish3d]

What makes you think Michelle Malkin is self hating? I'm not questioning in a disagreement sense, just curious as I've seen her off and on and don't know much about her

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: BBond
Well, you asked and I provided the local info that it seems you and your self-hating Michelle Malkin couldn't find.

No wonder your mind is so warped.

Michelle Malkin.

:roll:

Nothing you linked is or was new - nor was it local.

Figures - a far left freak claiming a Conservative woman is "self-hating". Wow - haven't heard that one before :roll:

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Rumor has it that a SAM was fired at a plane from New York. Anyone in the New York area know anything about this? Local media reports or anything?

NYC? The no fly zone?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: BBond
Maybe Shades of Grey reads The Political Teen...

Nope. Not LGF either.

I do read Michelle Malkin's blog and she was the first place I saw it in print - which was after I posted this thread - ASKING for local info.

So despite what you and others might try to suggest - there is nothing right-wing about this. It's laughable that we have people like Bowfinger trying to angle in for an attack on Bush before the story is confirmed or facts filled in. But hey, nothing like a good conspiracy for the left to feed themselves with.:roll:

Waaah! Anything I said you can refute, or is this the usual knee-jerk, attack anyone who suggests anything even slightly critical of your holiness in the White House? When you're unable to defend Bush, attack, attack, attack.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: BBond
Maybe Shades of Grey reads The Political Teen...

Nope. Not LGF either.

I do read Michelle Malkin's blog and she was the first place I saw it in print - which was after I posted this thread - ASKING for local info.

So despite what you and others might try to suggest - there is nothing right-wing about this. It's laughable that we have people like Bowfinger trying to angle in for an attack on Bush before the story is confirmed or facts filled in. But hey, nothing like a good conspiracy for the left to feed themselves with.:roll:

Waaah! Anything I said you can refute, or is this the usual knee-jerk, attack anyone who suggests anything even slightly critical of your holiness in the White House? When you're unable to defend Bush, attack, attack, attack.

Just noting your typical 'get Bush' angle and surrounding conspiracy - not an "attack". A little sensitive bowfinger?

 

[arsbanned]

OK, THIS is still on the first page of P&N? Daaaaamn. You guys must be prittttee bored.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: BBond
Well, you asked and I provided the local info that it seems you and your self-hating Michelle Malkin couldn't find.

No wonder your mind is so warped.

Michelle Malkin.

:roll:

Nothing you linked is or was new - nor was it local.

Figures - a far left freak claiming a Conservative woman is "self-hating". Wow - haven't heard that one before :roll:

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
[ ... ]
So despite what you and others might try to suggest - there is nothing right-wing about this. It's laughable that we have people like Bowfinger trying to angle in for an attack on Bush before the story is confirmed or facts filled in. But hey, nothing like a good conspiracy for the left to feed themselves with.:roll:

Waaah! Anything I said you can refute, or is this the usual knee-jerk, attack anyone who suggests anything even slightly critical of your holiness in the White House? When you're unable to defend Bush, attack, attack, attack.

Just noting your typical 'get Bush' angle and surrounding conspiracy - not an "attack". A little sensitive bowfinger?

ROFL. Hardly. Just noting your typical attack-the-messenger evasion and your tired accusation of 'conspiracy' whenever one suggests questionable motives by BushCo or its flock. A little sensitive sog? :laugh: