Saint Louis is preparing for riots tomorrow

[Thebobo]

I have not researched it. Still no excuse for breaking the law. If it is illegal do not do it. If you do accept the consequence. If you disagree with the law work to change it.

You are correct but just one little point. The consequence comes after your had your day in court which is hard to do when you are dead.

 

[gplracer]

Yep. I don't care. If grown-ups wanna fuck up their lives using drugs, let them do it. Most countries allow alcohol. Most countries allow cigarettes. Most countries allow gambling. What's the difference ?

FYI, I never used drugs myself. I never smoked. I hardly even drink alcohol. I find gambling really dumb. And I'm fine with anyone doing whatever dumb thing they wanna do.


The police should chase people. But within limits. It depends on the gravity of what they done. It depends on the necessity of arresting them on the spot. This guy did what ? I haven't studied the case, but I believe there was just a suspicion ? Couldn't they arrest the other party of the deal ? And again, was he driving a stolen car ? If not, you know who he was. Arrest him later. That often works, because these types of criminals are usually not the brightest.


So what ?
You find "being a drugs dealer" only terrible because that's what the US goverment and media have been telling the US public for a few decades. The war on drugs. Guess what, you've lost the war on drugs. It started in 1971. If you kept scores since 1971, one point per year, the score would now be: Drugs 46 - US 0. Why bother ?

Yep. And the whole mess was started because of dumb ideas about drug use.


I'll tell you something you probably won't believe.
I live in a country that was one of the first to produce, sell and use XTC at large quantities.
I live in a country where our University of Agriculture has improved pot so much, that we grow the best pot in the world (that was 2-3 decades ago, maybe you've caught up).

But nobody, and I mean literally nobody, in my country uses crack cocaine or meth.
Those drugs are inferior. Even our junkies know that.

We do hunt drugs dealers. But only the very big ones. And I think we only do it because of pressure from Germany, France and maybe other countries. But if it was up to us, we probably wouldn't bother much hunting drug dealers, just because they sell drugs. And I agree with that attitude. Again, why be so obsessed over other people's drug habits ?

But then again, we don't have privatized jails.

All of this happened because this guy was not following the law. Nobody mentions that. It is tragic when anyone dies. If this guy was not breaking the law he would be alive today. Instead he decided to break the law, arm himself,and run from the police. Then things went bad.

 

[gplracer]

Do you live under a rock?

Luckily no one in my family has a drug problem that I am aware of and no one has been arrested. We try to follow the law even when we do not agree with it. We do not have handguns and we do not run from the police when asked to stop. We also try to not abuse medication. It was the way we were brought up. We are not perfect and could do better in many areas. We have not experienced drug issues. I have little compassion for people who break the law selling drugs that harm the adults and the children who they are sold to. They know it is against the law and they do it anyway. Why do you think most drug dealers have a gun?

 

[Gryz]

All of this happened because this guy was not following the law. Nobody mentions that.

I get that. Others probably too.
The difference is: I don't think that "not following the law" should always be punished by execution on the spot, without trial.


I'll tell you a little anecdote. Something I experienced myself.

I've spent a lot of time in the US. In the nineties, in California. I was once driving up north to San Francisco. Highway 280. In a litte rental car. A few cars passed me by, going just over the speed limit. Say 10 mph too fast. I decided to follow them. It turned out a police car was driving behind us. He made me stop. Only me, the other cars would go on to San Francisco.

So I stopped. And I did what I always do when I get pulled over. I get my driver's license, I step out of my car, and walk to the police car. When the officer gets out of his car, I am already there. I shake his hand, and ask what the problem is. Trying to be polite. Trying to be pro-active.

That didn't go over well this time. The police officer almost got a heart-attack. He got really mad at me first. But when he figured out I wasn't from the US, he became friendly. He told me to never do that again (get out of my car). He said there's a real chance another officer would have shot me, right there. Because I did something I wasn't supposed to do. He was very serious about it too.

I will never forget that. It's been almost 20 years ago. I think the situation in the US regarding these situations only got worse. A lot worse. It seems that in the US you got to be almost as scared of the cops as the criminals. (Certainly when you're black). Weird country. Scared country. I don't think there are many countries where people are such scared pussies as in the US. (Not counting war zones, of course).

 

[justoh]

All of this happened because this guy was not following the law. Nobody mentions that. It is tragic when anyone dies. If this guy was not breaking the law he would be alive today. Instead he decided to break the law, arm himself,and run from the police. Then things went bad.

We wouldn't need law enforcement if the law was never broken.

And the only people against drugs are those who have never tried them, or those who suck at doing them. Stupid Christian (presumably - what else would explain you?).

 

[woolfe9998]

I get that. Others probably too.
The difference is: I don't think that "not following the law" should always be punished by execution on the spot, without trial.


I'll tell you a little anecdote. Something I experienced myself.

I've spent a lot of time in the US. In the nineties, in California. I was once driving up north to San Francisco. Highway 285. In a litte rental car. A few cars passed me by, going just over the speed limit. Say 10 mph too fast. I decided to follow them. It turned out a police car was driving behind us. He made me stop. Only me, the other cars would go on to San Francisco.

So I stopped. And I did what I always do when I get pulled over. I get my driver's license, I step out of my car, and walk to the police car. When the officer gets out of his car, I am already there. I shake his hand, and ask what the problem is. Trying to be polite. Trying to be pro-active.

That didn't go over well this time. The police officer almost got a heart-attack. He got really mad at me first. But when he figured out I wasn't from the US, he became friendly. He told me to never do that again (get out of my car). He said there's a real chance another officer would have shot me, right there. Because I did something I wasn't supposed to do. He was very serious about it too.

I will never forget that. It's been almost 20 years ago. I think the situation in the US regarding these situations only got worse. A lot worse. It seems that in the US you got to be almost as scared of the cops as the criminals. (Certainly when you're black). Weird country. Scared country. I don't think there are many countries where people are such scared pussies as in the US. (Not counting war zones, of course).

It's not likely you would be shot for getting out of the car. The officer was trying to over-emphasize the point to deter you from getting out of the car again.

There are around 12 million traffic stops per year in the US, and around 250 people are fatally shot during traffics stops in a given year. Do the math.

Very minor correction: Highway 280, not 285. That's the road you were on.

 

[Thebobo]

Luckily no one in my family has a drug problem that I am aware of and no one has been arrested. We try to follow the law even when we do not agree with it. We do not have handguns and we do not run from the police when asked to stop. We also try to not abuse medication. It was the way we were brought up. We are not perfect and could do better in many areas. We have not experienced drug issues. I have little compassion for people who break the law selling drugs that harm the adults and the children who they are sold to. They know it is against the law and they do it anyway. Why do you think most drug dealers have a gun?

You sir are a dinosaur.

 

[gplracer]

I get that. Others probably too.
The difference is: I don't think that "not following the law" should always be punished by execution on the spot, without trial.


I'll tell you a little anecdote. Something I experienced myself.

I've spent a lot of time in the US. In the nineties, in California. I was once driving up north to San Francisco. Highway 285. In a litte rental car. A few cars passed me by, going just over the speed limit. Say 10 mph too fast. I decided to follow them. It turned out a police car was driving behind us. He made me stop. Only me, the other cars would go on to San Francisco.

So I stopped. And I did what I always do when I get pulled over. I get my driver's license, I step out of my car, and walk to the police car. When the officer gets out of his car, I am already there. I shake his hand, and ask what the problem is. Trying to be polite. Trying to be pro-active.

That didn't go over well this time. The police officer almost got a heart-attack. He got really mad at me first. But when he figured out I wasn't from the US, he became friendly. He told me to never do that again (get out of my car). He said there's a real chance another officer would have shot me, right there. Because I did something I wasn't supposed to do. He was very serious about it too.

I will never forget that. It's been almost 20 years ago. I think the situation in the US regarding these situations only got worse. A lot worse. It seems that in the US you got to be almost as scared of the cops as the criminals. (Certainly when you're black). Weird country. Scared country. I don't think there are many countries where people are such scared pussies as in the US. (Not counting war zones, of course).

That is a terrible incident that should have NEVER happened.

 

[gplracer]

We wouldn't need law enforcement if the law was never broken.

And the only people against drugs are those who have never tried them, or those who suck at doing them. Stupid Christian (presumably - what else would explain you?).

Law abiding citizen. So I am stupid for following the law. I guess in your eyes I am stupid for following he law and not doing drugs. That makes sense now.

 

[gplracer]

You sire are a


You sir are a dinosaur.

Thanks!

 

[gplracer]

Typical forum responses. You disagree with me so you resort to name calling.

 

[Thebobo]

It's not that typical in fact I don't recall see anyone else called a dinosaur on AT. You might be the first! But it's not name calling per say I guess it was more like your ideas on this matter extinct. Or should be and there is no more point in arguing with you. Was just easier to type dinosaur, you're not a dinosaur obviously, are you?

 

[gplracer]

It's not that typical in fact I don't recall see anyone else called a dinosaur on AT. You might be the first! But it's not name calling per say I guess it was more like your ideas on this matter extinct. Or should be and there is no more point in arguing with you. Was just easier to type dinosaur, you're not a dinosaur obviously, are you?

I don't think so. I appreciate your clarification. I understand drugs are a battle that is lost. I just try to set a good example and follow the law.

 

[Puffnstuff]

And the only people against drugs are those who have never tried them, or those who suck at doing them. Stupid Christian (presumably - what else would explain you?).

I found this just for you in an attempt to dissuade you from using them further.😛

 

[justoh]

Law abiding citizen. So I am stupid for following the law. I guess in your eyes I am stupid for following he law and not doing drugs. That makes sense now.

People like you make the idea of non-violent protest seem so hopeless/naive, hence the riots. Surprised it doesn't happen more. The US lacks meaningful social assistance. Schools funded locally, usually. No opportunities for many. Then people have to face a discriminatory/unfair criminal justice system, with its senseless drug war and ridiculous prison terms under inhumane conditions. So you either run or shoot it out, naturally, which makes le confrontations so volatile.

 

[Gryz]

It's not likely you would be shot for getting out of the car. The officer was trying to over-emphasize the point to deter you from getting out of the car again.

Well, in case you didn't see it, I linked this article:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...neapolis-police-shooting-justine-damond-video
Dumb non-US woman gets shots, because she startled a police officer in his car.

There are around 12 million traffic stops per year in the US, and around 250 people are fatally shot during traffics stops in a given year. Do the math.

250 People shot in the US during a traffic stop per year ? That's almost 1 per million per year. That's nuts. My country has 17 million people, so we should have ~12 people shot per year ? I'll tell you, I can't remember anyone ever being shot dead during a traffic stop. Ever.

Very minor correction: Highway 280, not 285. That's the road you were on.

You are correct. I even looked it up on google maps, before I wrote the post. But I made a typo.

That is a terrible incident that should have NEVER happened.

It wasn't terrible. It was just something that made me think. A country where the citizens are scared of their own policemen. And the policemen are scared of their own citizen. Just weird.

 

[gplracer]

People like you make the idea of non-violent protest seem so hopeless/naive, hence the riots. Surprised it doesn't happen more. The US lacks meaningful social assistance. Schools funded locally, usually. No opportunities for many. Then people have to face a discriminatory/unfair criminal justice system, with its senseless drug war and ridiculous prison terms under inhumane conditions. So you either run or shoot it out, naturally, which makes le confrontations so volatile.

Your impression of the country is not real accurate. You think you understand but you do not.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Luckily no one in my family has a drug problem that I am aware of and no one has been arrested. We try to follow the law even when we do not agree with it. We do not have handguns and we do not run from the police when asked to stop. We also try to not abuse medication. It was the way we were brought up. We are not perfect and could do better in many areas. We have not experienced drug issues. I have little compassion for people who break the law selling drugs that harm the adults and the children who they are sold to. They know it is against the law and they do it anyway. Why do you think most drug dealers have a gun?

For the same reason that bootleggers had guns in the 1920's. When prohibitionists criminalize something that people really want, it creates a very lucrative black market for that thing. Lucrative black markets naturally attract people with guns who want to own those markets. People with guns who want to control black markets end up killing lots of people. Prohibitionists are stupid. Don't be like prohibitionists. They cause people to die.

How many alcohol gangs are there right now? None. You can go to Ralph's and buy alcohol. If you could go to Ralphs's to buy weed or to a heroin center to buy/use heroin there wouldn't be any drug gangs left either. Wanna end drug dealers with guns? End prohibition. Every time drugs have been decriminalized and treated as a medical issue, drug violence over the trade of said drug has reduced. Addiction rates, overdose rates, HIV rates, all of the above have all dropped. If the end goal is to get people off drugs and reduce violence in the world to protect our families, then why do we refuse to enact the policies that would achieve this goal? Yes, I know, the answer is money. It's all fucked up. The events discussed in this thread would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED if we hadn't made the decision to create a lucrative black market for drugs.

 

[Darwin333]

I guess we are different. I am not ok with the sale of meth, cocaine, and heroin.

Yet since we started the "war on drugs" the sale of meth, cocaine, and heroin has not only grown but the product has gotten better and cheaper.

Oh but the government did do a great job at cracking down on the pharmaceutical opioid trade and that only had the effect of increasing the people using heroin by a few times and increasing heroin overdoses by like 500%, so uh, good job? Even the wins are monumental failures and your idea is business as usual?

 

[Darwin333]

No he was assumed to have a gun because he sold drugs. Why do people have assumptions? Think about that. The have them because of past experiences. Also, the heroin dealer is no different from any other drug dealer. Many of them carry guns because of the ruthlessness of other drug dealers on their turf.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of drug dealers do not carry guns. Hell one of the biggest users of drugs is middle class white folk, you don't last long selling drugs to them if you roll in strapped.

 

[Darwin333]

After going to grab medical supplies to help the drug dealer, did the cop instantly then go into I need to go find his gun mode? Why not have one of the other officers on the scene search the car just to avoid all doubt?

That is the part that gets me. He just shot the guy because he said he feared that he was going for a gun. Instead of immediately securing said gun, as cops are want to do lest the bad guy still use it on them, he gets medical equipment before rendering the person safe to even approach without a weapon drawn?

 

[Darwin333]

I have not researched it. Still no excuse for breaking the law. If it is illegal do not do it. If you do accept the consequence. If you disagree with the law work to change it.

And if a few innocent civilians are killed in the process of recklessly taking down a nickel and dime drug dealer, something that we have already established won't cause a damn bit of difference in the drug trade, it's just collateral damage despite having zero real results, right?

Not to mention there is also no excuse for summary executions on the side of the road by the police either...

 

[zzyzxroad]

Luckily no one in my family has a drug problem that I am aware of and no one has been arrested. We try to follow the law even when we do not agree with it. We do not have handguns and we do not run from the police when asked to stop. We also try to not abuse medication. It was the way we were brought up. We are not perfect and could do better in many areas. We have not experienced drug issues. I have little compassion for people who break the law selling drugs that harm the adults and the children who they are sold to. They know it is against the law and they do it anyway. Why do you think most drug dealers have a gun?

I can only assume they did not have the R.I.F (reading is fundamental) program where you grew up? Good day sir.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Alcohol prohibition worked so well. Drug prohibition is working so well. Firearms prohibitions are working great. What can we ban next? It always works so effectively.

 

[justoh]

Your impression of the country is not real accurate. You think you understand but you do not.

As a (presumed) christian, your impression of everything is inaccurate. If you don't think the over-representation of blacks in US prisons is because of inequality, discrimination generally, and then a discriminatory justice system, then you must think they're inherently more prone to poverty and crime, meaning you must think them inherently inferior, which would make you a bonafide racist.