Saddam's Capture Story Fabricated

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What is the difference???

Why make up the story about the hole in the ground???

Damn Dave, we agree again on something. I'm marking my calendar this time!

 

[ReiAyanami]

the house he was next to containing his stuff showed he has 3 packs of sealed clean underwear and 2 unwrapped eaten snickers bars


sounds about right

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Deptacon

Originally posted by: fornax
An ex-marine, member of the team that captured Saddam Husein, says that the public version of Saddam's capture was fabricated. Apparently he was caught in a home in a village, and not in some hole in the ground. Cudos to the Pentagon propaganda department, Goebbels would have been proud of them.

Link to story

hey thier buddy marines didint capture saddam. elements of the 4th ID did. US Army.


Wait, isn't this arab marine who deserted and ran off to lebanon???? I think it is. the one who said he was captured. then turned up in lebanon. turned out he deserted.

anyobdy remebr that? find a link, with the guys name?

also, this says it was qouted from an saudi newspaper....now there is a reliable source....dude this is total BS.

ive meet one of the guys from the 4th ID who captured him. he was a guest speaker at a military event i went to. this is total BS

I am certainly no fan of Bush and company, but I agree with you: This "revelation" smells like week-old fish.

For one thing, it's wildly improbable that the military could legally impose a gag order whose sole purpose was to prevent soldiers (those participating in the capture) from revealing that the Saddam-capture story was nothing but propaganda being fed to the American public.

And absent a gag order, LOTS of soldiers would have blown the lid off a completely fabricated story, especially when the "truth" involved the death of an American soldier.

I've learned to expect that this Administration will stoop to almost anything to further its agenda, but in this particular case I would be extremely surprised if this report is true.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What is the difference???

Why make up the story about the hole in the ground???

Because instead of a tough guy who fought until the end, you've got a story about a tough guy who suddenly turned into a little coward, cowering in a hole. Which story makes saddam look worse?

This is one guy's version vs. everybody else's. Until there is more dissent, I will believe the original story.

If he fought to the end, wouldn't he be dead?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Are all of Saddam's doubles still on the loose ?
Why haven't we caught these Mini-Hes yet ?

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What is the difference???

Why make up the story about the hole in the ground???

Because instead of a tough guy who fought until the end, you've got a story about a tough guy who suddenly turned into a little coward, cowering in a hole. Which story makes saddam look worse?

This is one guy's version vs. everybody else's. Until there is more dissent, I will believe the original story.

If that's the case then that particular fabrication didn't have the desired effect.
No one really seemed to care that Saddam was caught in the hole by either Dems or Repubs. Just happy he was caught period.

Of course his name is not Osama bin Laden, the real Terrist and mastermind of 9-11 but such details do not matter to Bush or the Republicans.

nice job lumping all republicans into that train of thought. :thumbsup:

:roll:

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Deptacon
Wait, isn't this arab marine who deserted and ran off to lebanon???? I think it is. the one who said he was captured. then turned up in lebanon. turned out he deserted.

No, Abou Rabeh is NOT Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun, though both DO have an 'a' in their last names, so I can see how easily they'd be mistaken by a racist or a retard.

One good reason for fabricating the "spider-hole" story would be to obscure the true actual place of capture, which would be a clue to the Sadaam loyalists as to who in the old Baath hierarchy ratted him out.

hey WTF, i said i didnt look it up, i was just curious, cause i knew he stayed in lebanon, god, fvcker, is it that time of the month for everyone today or something?

 

[alchemize]

I thought the leftists were all done trying to spin this huge success and clean the egg off their face. Guess I was wrong

edit: replaced liberals with leftists. I keep forgetting that true liberals are real americans

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I thought the liberals were all done trying to spin this huge success and clean the egg off their face. Guess I was wrong

hahahahaha...they like the egg....it helps them give up senate seats faster

 

[wiin]

fornax posted:

An ex-marine, member of the team that captured Saddam Husein, says that the public version of Saddam's capture was fabricated. Apparently he was caught in a home in a village, and not in some hole in the ground. Kudos to the Pentagon propaganda department, Goebbels would have been proud of them.

No marines participated in the capture of Saddam Hussein.

 

[Deptacon]

Originally posted by: wiin
fornax posted:

An ex-marine, member of the team that captured Saddam Husein, says that the public version of Saddam's capture was fabricated. Apparently he was caught in a home in a village, and not in some hole in the ground. Kudos to the Pentagon propaganda department, Goebbels would have been proud of them.

No marines participated in the capture of Saddam Hussein.

I stand corrected, delta, thought is was 4th ID. Makes since they would use delta though

you can notice in these pictures the uniforms, the BDU's or "cammo". thats army desert BDU's, marines have the new "digital" BDU's

http://students.engr.scu.edu/~jabraham/specwar/specops/us/tf121/page1.html

here is a pic I found of the marine BDU's actually had a hard time finding one, but these are it hard to see but they are different.
http://kimmershow.com/imImages/True%20A...0freeman-500px-Feb-1-2005-15-50-39.jpg

now not EVERYONe has em yet, so yeah may be a few marines in the old "same as army" BDU's, but not many.

 

[mhillary]

great link

 

[maluckey]

Wow!!

If we couldn't keep nuclear secrets from leaking, we certainly can't keep something so non-secret as to where Saddam was captured. This guy in the link is a liar, trying to give a fellow Arab props. If Saddam was firing at U.S. soldiers, he would be dead. Especially if you believe people like Bbond, who claim we kill ALL adult males in Iraq without mercy......

 

[conjur]

Article from Dec. 2003

Who Really Caught Saddam? Reporter Yvonne Ridley Says Kurdish Forces Captured Saddam and Handed Him To U.S. Forces
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/23/1559234

We speak with journalist Yvonne Ridley who reported in last weekend's Sunday Express that Saddam Hussein was actually captured by Kurdish forces who then drugged him and abandoned him for U.S. troops to find after brokering a deal. In 2001, Ridley was imprisoned for 10 days by the Taliban while on assignment in Afghanistan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On December 15th, the head of the U.S. occupation in Iraq, Paul Bremer, held an early morning press conference. His first words were "Ladies and Gentlemen, we got him." This was how millions of people around the world learned of the capture of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
U.S. forces said they captured Saddam at about 8:30 Saturday night Iraq time after members of his extended family tipped off interrogators as to his whereabouts.

A week after Bremer's announcement, a different account of Saddam's capture has emerged.

An article in last weekend's British Sunday Express, says "The full story of the fallen dictator's capture last Saturday in a "spider hole" near his birthplace of Tikrit exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete."

According to the Sunday Express, Saddam was actually captured by Kurdish forces who then drugged him and abandoned him for U.S. troops to find after brokering a deal. The article quotes unnamed British and Iraqi military intelligence officers.

The Express also reports that secret talks are underway to sentence Saddam to life imprisonment in Qatar after a "showcase trial."

We speak with the author of the article - freelance veteran journalist Yvonne Ridley. She joins us on the phone from Doha, Qatar.


Yvonne Ridley, freelance journalist and author. Yvonne Ridley is a veteran journalist who has written for various British publications including The Observer and The Independent. She left the full-time staff of Sunday Express in December 2001. She did some work for BBC radio in Afghanistan and for Channel Five news in Iraq. She was recently fired amid controversy from her editorial position at AlJazeera.net. In September 2001, Yvonne Ridley was imprisoned for 10 days by the Taliban in Afghanistan after being caught disguised in a burqa on the back of a donkey while on assignment for the Sunday Express. At the time, the Taliban had barred entry to foreign correspondents. She has published a book of her account entitled In the Hands of the Taliban. Her latest book is Ticket to Paradise, a fiction, due out at the end of the year.

Links to video/audio of the interview there, too.

 

[Sysbuilder05]

Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

 

[BHeemsoth]

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: rpbri2886

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

Welcome to reality and get off the Kool-Aid fix.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: rpbri2886

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

Face it, you have no argument, so you use "You lost" as your only retort. You neocon-artists are just so irrational.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: rpbri2886

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

Face it, you have no argument, so you use "You lost" as your only retort. You neocon-artists are just so irrational.

and unoriginal. We've all lost, and someday you'll stop waving that flag long enough to realize it.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: rpbri2886

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

for the parroting of the rightwing "You lost, get over it!" answer to everything they can not intelligently discuss or defend.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

If that's the case then that particular fabrication didn't have the desired effect.

I believe the intended target was the Saddam loyalists and insurgents still fighting in Iraq...humiliation and cowardice are a big deal in Islamic culture...although apparently it wasnt enough for them to lose their will to fight.

Do sexual pyramids fit in this category too?

 

[kage69]

nice job lumping all republicans into that train of thought

I've lost count of the number of times you've done the EXACT same concerning Democrats. Either stop generalizing or shut your hole!

 

[BHeemsoth]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: rpbri2886

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Soooo so shocked that Bush and his Nazi propaganda team would make this up--NOT. They pimped up and screwed up the Lynch story so badly that it was exposed for the fakery it was in mere days.

The last thing they wanted was SH fighting back against American Forces. They wanted him hiding,shaking pissing his pants over the very thought of Bush coming to get him.

Well...lets see if Fair and Balanced FOX runs with this one......

SHUT THE FVCK UP. Perhaps FOX is not 100% fair and balanced, but are the other networks?

Get off the god damn Bush hater bandwagon. He is not a bad president at all, you libs are jus irrational.

Face it, you guys lost in 2004, and you have a real good chance of losing in 2008 if Hillary runs.

for the parroting of the rightwing "You lost, get over it!" answer to everything they can not intelligently discuss or defend.

One former military member made this statement. He has no backup on this. Perhaps he is disgruntled? Or maybe he is just looking to make a name for himself in much the same way Jose Canseco and others are.

If you get an entire platoon of men saying it was fake, fine I will believe it then.

However, to sit here and call Bush a nazi is just assinine. What proof do you have that Bush actually is a Nazi? Just in the same way you accused me of not backing up my arguments, I am accusing you. I want you to tell me how Bush is a Nazi, or rather how he has a "Nazi Propaganda Team."

I really am looking forward to hearing an intelligent response to this question. Most of you libs are the same, as soon as one anti-Bush story hits the mainstream, you all jump on the Impeach Bush, Bush is a Nazi bandwagon.

How did Bush ever harm you?

Please respond, or at least try to in a sensical manner.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: rpbri2886
I want you to tell me how Bush is a Nazi, or rather how he has a "Nazi Propaganda Team."

First off, a few names:

Rove
Bartlett
Ailes
Murdoch
Guckert/Gannon


Next, read through this and tell me if you don't spot the similarities:
http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.

2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.
a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.

4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.
a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign

6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.

7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.

8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.

9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.

10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.

11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.

12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.

13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.
a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.
a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

b. They must be capable of being easily learned

c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

d. They must be boomerang-proof

15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.

16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.
a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.
a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.

19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

 

[BHeemsoth]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: rpbri2886
I want you to tell me how Bush is a Nazi, or rather how he has a "Nazi Propaganda Team."

First off, a few names:

Rove
Bartlett
Ailes
Murdoch
Guckert/Gannon


Next, read through this and tell me if you don't spot the similarities:
http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.

2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.
a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.

4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.
a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign

6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.

7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.

8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.

9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.

10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.

11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.

12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.

13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.
a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.
a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

b. They must be capable of being easily learned

c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

d. They must be boomerang-proof

15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.

16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.
a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.
a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.

19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

Stop with all this nazi nonsense. That entire post is bullsh!t. You don't think Bill Clinton tried to spin news stories in his direction? I will bet you anything that he did. Regardless, I would hardly call this propaganda.