Sacrifice won't run right on ATI cards!

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo
This is a video forum, and I'm noting a valid driver issue with a video game and a video card?

Who says its not a game issue?

Originally posted by: Rollo
Yep. I just placed my order for Sacrifice on Half.com, should get it soon.

I wonder if ATI will fix the driver issues with the game, so I can maybe consider buying one of their cards? Maybe they're still working on it?

Does anybody know?

Except that Farcry is still a very popular game, still bundled with new top of the line video cards. And its still used in benchmarking in virtually every new video card review.

I think you already know this, but this is a pretty worthless and trolling topic.

Originally posted by: Rollo
I've bought one of every generation of ATIs flagship card for years now, so I've definitely considered trying a X1800XT.

I dont recall you having a X850XT/PE?

 

[Busithoth]

I started playing Sacrifice 3x and never got taken by it. I still won't part with the disk, figuring one day, it's time will come and I'll play it from beginning to end.
I guess I should just up and run it now, before I upgrade video cards, huh?

no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Rollo, where did you hear this game won't work with this card? I think you're vastly overcrediting a non-problem.

 

[Kalessian]

Actually, since I couldn't play Sacrifice on ultra quality, I didn't play it until I got my 6600GT, which was only a little while ago. I'll be playing D3 probably sometime late this year for the first time, when I can afford to play at the top quality. As for FEAR, I won't get to that for more than a year, I'm afraid 🙁

As for the joke, it wasn't that funny. However, watching the first 10 or so people go nuts was hilarious.

 

[Hacp]

OMFG I can't run catalyst drivers on a Nvidia card. It will suddenly give me hundreds off errors and sometimes results in a blue screen of death? Ow what should I do? Should I stomp on my formerly beloved Nvidia card and purchase a brand new 1800XT because it can run the Catalyst drivers that I downloaded using my precious bandwith and storage space? Please help a man in peril!!!!!!!!

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Once upon a time, ATI couldn't seem to hire a programmer worth beans when it came to the driver software for its GPU's. I had a new (to me, but year-old technology then) PC with an ATI card in it that I wanted to play Icewind Dale on. I had tried Baldur's Gate and hadn't liked that game's controls, and especially not its version of real time combat control.

Icewind Dale was supposed to use the same engine, and a modified interface I thought might appeal to me. But it wouldn't run. BioWare (whoever the publisher was, before Atari took over) pointed the finger at ATI, ATI pointed the finger at Intel (440-BX chip set on a genuine Intel MB), etc. Only the game publisher ssupport people made any show of helping. ATI was disinterested in the extreme, impolite, rude, even.

How long ago was that? Five years? Six? Should I hold a grudge this long or let it go?

Should I not buy ATI-based products, even when no one else's is in the same performance zone? (Here think of FX anything vs. various Radeon 9xxxx's). Maybe I should buy Matrox and ignore the opportunity to put entertainment on a computer?

When I discovered that AMD's Athlons were totally compatible, less expensive, and faster than equivalent Intel products, I stopped buying Intel stuff. IMO, Intel hasn't truly caught up since I bought my last P-II machine (yes, bought it, not built it. For a few years there, I just didn't want to make the time for building, and paid a local White Box shop to assemble PC's for me).

Then, I wasted some money on an FX 5700 card that wouldn't do what I wanted it to, at least not as fast as I wanted. I returned it, and got a year-old GF4 Ti-4200 that did better. But that more or less brings the history to current times (that was 20-22 months ago), and I now also have a Radeon 9800se that seems good enough for what it cost. The drivers it came with seem quite adequate. I don't think I'll feud with ATI any more. They didn't know I was still upset with them, and it made no difference in the long run.

Now, if Intel can figure out how to compete without trying to be a Microsoft, maybe I might buy something new from them . .

Hey, Rollo, why not let bygones be bygones?


🙁

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Kiwi
Once upon a time, ATI couldn't seem to hire a programmer worth beans when it came to the driver software for its GPU's. I had a new (to me, but year-old technology then) PC with an ATI card in it that I wanted to play Icewind Dale on. I had tried Baldur's Gate and hadn't liked that game's controls, and especially not its version of real time combat control.

Icewind Dale was supposed to use the same engine, and a modified interface I thought might appeal to me. But it wouldn't run. BioWare (whoever the publisher was, before Atari took over) pointed the finger at ATI, ATI pointed the finger at Intel (440-BX chip set on a genuine Intel MB), etc. Only the game publisher ssupport people made any show of helping. ATI was disinterested in the extreme, impolite, rude, even.

How long ago was that? Five years? Six? Should I hold a grudge this long or let it go?

Should I not buy ATI-based products, even when no one else's is in the same performance zone? (Here think of FX anything vs. various Radeon 9xxxx's). Maybe I should buy Matrox and ignore the opportunity to put entertainment on a computer?

When I discovered that AMD's Athlons were totally compatible, less expensive, and faster than equivalent Intel products, I stopped buying Intel stuff. IMO, Intel hasn't truly caught up since I bought my last P-II machine (yes, bought it, not built it. For a few years there, I just didn't want to make the time for building, and paid a local White Box shop to assemble PC's for me).

Then, I wasted some money on an FX 5700 card that wouldn't do what I wanted it to, at least not as fast as I wanted. I returned it, and got a year-old GF4 Ti-4200 that did better. But that more or less brings the history to current times (that was 20-22 months ago), and I now also have a Radeon 9800se that seems good enough for what it cost. The drivers it came with seem quite adequate. I don't think I'll feud with ATI any more. They didn't know I was still upset with them, and it made no difference in the long run.

Now, if Intel can figure out how to compete without trying to be a Microsoft, maybe I might buy something new from them . .

Hey, Rollo, why not let bygones be bygones?


🙁

He probably owns Nvidia stock

 

[linkgoron]

Recently, we have had far too much flaming, trolling, baiting, and personal attacks in far too many threads on this forum. Such behavior only gets in the way of meaningful discussions and detracts from the value of our forums, and it will not be tolerated.

Good, make a joke topic about real problems that users have with FC shadows.
Then complain about trolling in Forum Issues.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo
This is a video forum, and I'm noting a valid driver issue with a video game and a video card?

Who says its not a game issue?

The people that can play it with the textures rendered on nVidia based cards? I'll tell you soon.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Yep. I just placed my order for Sacrifice on Half.com, should get it soon.

I wonder if ATI will fix the driver issues with the game, so I can maybe consider buying one of their cards? Maybe they're still working on it?

Does anybody know?

Except that Farcry is still a very popular game, still bundled with new top of the line video cards. And its still used in benchmarking in virtually every new video card review.

I think you already know this, but this is a pretty worthless and trolling topic.

I don't understand? Why is Far Cry more worthy of discussion than Sacrifice? I've had Far Cry forever and never even noticed the bug, like most people didn't.
I just ordered Sacrifice today, so this is a hot topic for me?

Originally posted by: Rollo
I've bought one of every generation of ATIs flagship card for years now, so I've definitely considered trying a X1800XT.

I dont recall you having a X850XT/PE?

[/quote]
Because I don't consider that a "generation"? I bought and used a X800XT PE, for that matter one with an Arctic cooler that I could easily OC to 850 speeds. By the time X850XT PEs arrived in force, I was buying video hardware that made them look like useless junk. 😉

 

[Ackmed]

Just because it works properly on NV cards, doesnt mean its not a game issue. Not too long ago I bought a game, that worked fine on ATi hardware. Yet gave me a blue screen and rebooted my PC every single time I tried to play it. Turned out, editing a game file, fixed the problem. So did newer NV drivers. In short, I dont know what the problem is for certain, and neither do you. As has been mentioned, BF2 has the same issue with both cards. That is very likey a game issue, not driver. And it too is very noticable.

I stated why I thought Farcry was more worthy. For one, its used as a benchmark in virtually every video card review. Secondly, its still being sold with video cards. I got a copy with my GTX. Thirdly, its a TWIMTBP game, supported by NV. I dont know how you cant notice the shadow problem, hits me like a ton of bricks. Not to mention Sacrifice didnt sell very well. The opposite of Farcry.

So because I bought a GF3, I can claim I had a Ti4600? No. There are differences. But its a matter of opinion.

X850XT/PE's arrived in force, right after launch. I got one under MSRP within the first week. They were not hard to get. I thought you didnt overclock? You've said that several times that you dont think its worth it...

 

[johnnqq]

are u kidding? why is far cry more worthy of discussion than sacrafice? because it's a fact taht more people bought and played far cry over sacrafice. far cry is a superior benchmark over sacrafice (obviously). not only did u make this nvidia vs ati, u made it nvidia is bad vs ati is bad. just tell us how doom 3 is the best game ever. i can't wait to hear it!

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

I aim to please Morph, and hope you can help me with this issue. I've bought one of every generation of ATIs flagship card for years now, so I've definitely considered trying a X1800XT.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1001/itogi-video-rage128pro.html

Hmm. A 2001 review of an old Rage card, and all the image links on the page are dead. Are you sure that the Sacrifice issue is still present on current ATI cards/drivers?

 

[Creideike]

I have a question. When I brose through the topics on this form, why is it that ever time someone talks about a problem with, or even just discusses, an ATI or Nvidia card, we have to get into a flamefest of fanboys? All I see here is Rollo asking for a little information, while remaining very civil in the face of people trying to flame him, I don't see him putting down ATI (as he owns their cards), he is just asking for some help and information!

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Rollo, this thread is absolutely ridiculous. For the life of me I can't understand why you are going the road of the troll. You used to contribute a lot to this forum. 🙁

Dude, it's no more ridiculous than a 1000 post rant on shadows being the wrong shape in a year and a half old game, and then a follow up thread.

Like I said, I just ordered Sacrifice. As a Sacrifice owner, and potential ATI owner, I want answers!

The shadows are messed up in new games too! I just bought Rome Total War Barbarian Invasion (expansion pack) and the shadows look like they are made from lego blocks 🙁

 

[johnnqq]

Originally posted by: Creideike
I have a question. When I brose through the topics on this form, why is it that ever time someone talks about a problem with, or even just discusses, an ATI or Nvidia card, we have to get into a flamefest of fanboys? All I see here is Rollo asking for a little information, while remaining very civil in the face of people trying to flame him, I don't see him putting down ATI (as he owns their cards), he is just asking for some help and information!

this biggest fanboy in this thread is rollo...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: johnnqq
are u kidding? why is far cry more worthy of discussion than sacrafice? because it's a fact taht more people bought and played far cry over sacrafice. far cry is a superior benchmark over sacrafice (obviously). not only did u make this nvidia vs ati, u made it nvidia is bad vs ati is bad. just tell us how doom 3 is the best game ever. i can't wait to hear it!

Since when does number of copies bought equate to "worthiness"? No one here has ever SEEN a X1800XT and there's a couple hundred threads about them?

I have Sacrifice on the way, it's "worthy" to me? Ben Skywalker wants to play it on his ATI card too?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Rollo

I aim to please Morph, and hope you can help me with this issue. I've bought one of every generation of ATIs flagship card for years now, so I've definitely considered trying a X1800XT.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1001/itogi-video-rage128pro.html

Hmm. A 2001 review of an old Rage card, and all the image links on the page are dead. Are you sure that the Sacrifice issue is still present on current ATI cards/drivers?

Yep, I sure am. Check out Ben Skywalkers posts about it, in the long Far Cry shadow thread, for example. Still broken, after five years, Ben wants to play, now I do too.
🙁

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: johnnqq

Originally posted by: Creideike
I have a question. When I brose through the topics on this form, why is it that ever time someone talks about a problem with, or even just discusses, an ATI or Nvidia card, we have to get into a flamefest of fanboys? All I see here is Rollo asking for a little information, while remaining very civil in the face of people trying to flame him, I don't see him putting down ATI (as he owns their cards), he is just asking for some help and information!

this biggest fanboy in this thread is rollo...

Wanna bet? 😉

 

[rbV5]

The way I understand it, Radeon cards do not have w-buffer support used in the Sacrifice Engine to calculate z-depth. This leads to occlusion rendering errors which can be compounded by user settings. Apparently with the small userbase, and lack of titles using the Sacrifice engine (or w-buffer at all) There will be no fix unless the developer fixes it. End of story.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5
The way I understand it, Radeon cards do not have w-buffer support used in the Sacrifice Engine to calculate z-depth. This leads to occlusion rendering errors which can be compounded by user settings. Apparently with the small userbase, and lack of titles using the Sacrifice engine (or w-buffer at all) There will be no fix unless the developer fixes it. End of story.

This is good info.

A hardware limitation?! Is this on the X1800XTs too?

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Well, lucky for you Rollo, you've got plenty of nVidia horsepower. And Sacrifice is a grand old game, I still break it out every once it a while cause it's quite unlike any other game on the market. Not great for MP because of the way it works, but a blast in SP. Unique monster design, fun spells, earthworm jim. Plenty to like there. I've certainly played it more then I'll ever play Far Cry, but that's an opinion thing.

Shame they marketed it the way they did. It's much more an action/RTS hybrid then an RTS. Making me want to play through it again.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: johnnqq
i was gonna buy 2 7800gtx's ocko super edition for $1200 just like you rollo. the x1800xt is the worst card everrr it can't even run pac man blah blah STOP CREATING STUPID ARGUEMENTS. we understand that you're loyal to your nvidia, but that doesn't mean you have to spend ever 10 minutes of your time telling people how bad ati is...

I don't understand Johnqq?

This is a video forum, and I'm noting a valid driver issue with a video game and a video card?

Isn't that the sort of thing the forum is for? I've seen other threads like this here?

I'm really hoping the members here can give me insight into this problem, so I can consider buying an ATI card.

"Yeah, I'm just looking for some help!" 🙂 Rollo plays innocent! What an amusing farce...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Well, lucky for you Rollo, you've got plenty of nVidia horsepower. And Sacrifice is a grand old game, I still break it out every once it a while cause it's quite unlike any other game on the market. Not great for MP because of the way it works, but a blast in SP. Unique monster design, fun spells, earthworm jim. Plenty to like there. I've certainly played it more then I'll ever play Far Cry, but that's an opinion thing.

Shame they marketed it the way they did. It's much more an action/RTS hybrid then an RTS. Making me want to play through it again.

More good info!

I've heard it's a great game and I'm looking forward to playing it. I guess I'll end up keeping my 7800GTXs, no X1800XT for me with the terrible hardware limitation of no W buffer. 🙁

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: johnnqq
i was gonna buy 2 7800gtx's ocko super edition for $1200 just like you rollo. the x1800xt is the worst card everrr it can't even run pac man blah blah STOP CREATING STUPID ARGUEMENTS. we understand that you're loyal to your nvidia, but that doesn't mean you have to spend ever 10 minutes of your time telling people how bad ati is...

I don't understand Johnqq?

This is a video forum, and I'm noting a valid driver issue with a video game and a video card?

Isn't that the sort of thing the forum is for? I've seen other threads like this here?

I'm really hoping the members here can give me insight into this problem, so I can consider buying an ATI card.

"Yeah, I'm just looking for some help!" 🙂 Rollo plays innocent! What an amusing farce...

Somebody smarter than me once said "The world's a stage" HW. 😉

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
The way I understand it, Radeon cards do not have w-buffer support used in the Sacrifice Engine to calculate z-depth. This leads to occlusion rendering errors which can be compounded by user settings. Apparently with the small userbase, and lack of titles using the Sacrifice engine (or w-buffer at all) There will be no fix unless the developer fixes it. End of story.

This is good info.

A hardware limitation?! Is this on the X1800XTs too?

I don't know why it wouldn't be, but that would be my assumption. I recall checking into this quite some time ago for BenSkywalker, and AFAIK, nothing has changed since then. It would take a workaround from either the developer or some effort from ATI to translate the calls at the driver level. This is not any new issue, seems like its been since pre-8500 hardware if not before, and the y developer is well aware of it. Sacrifice doesn't really support Radeon cards, do they claim that they do?

 

[xtknight]

Try turning on the W-buffer in RadLinker.

Edit: actually the KB says turn it off.