[SA] News of Nvidia’s Pascal tapeout and silicon is important

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FatherMurphy

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Mar 27, 2014
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Had those GPUs not been proven to be current gen, would you consider them as proof Pascal is ready?

No. There are a lot of different things going on with Drive PX 2, such as the Pascal GPUs and the new Tegras. The fact that availability isn't set until much later in the year could suggest that the Pascal dGPUs contemplated for PX 2 are not ready, or it could mean the Tegras won't be ready, or the software won't be ready . . . .

I guess my point is that the Drive PX 2 demonstration does not move the meter one way or the other for me on the question of Pascal's readiness. On the one hand, if NV has abundant Pascal silicon, why not show it off? On the other, as market leader with a big show in April, there is no cause to show off the Pascal silicon yet.

Just because AMD decided to do a limited showing of Polaris does not mean that NV's failure to do a similar showing within the same time frame correlates to a "3-4 month" delay.

We know very little about Pascal's readiness, truthfully.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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An undisputed leader, yet their language is... ambiguous. One could almost argue they did feel a particular pressure to show their hand and attempt to drum up excitement.


Nvidia may very well be on their way for a properly scheduled launch of their next gen GPUs, but no public information available is able to support that, and the article in the OP exploits just that.

funny he repeated it. lol. why on earth claim its pascal thats on there. Just say it will be pascal
 
Feb 19, 2009
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funny he repeated it. lol. why on earth claim its pascal thats on there. Just say it will be pascal

That's the thing. He deliberately said what he is holding are Pascal GPUs. Not it will be Pascal when it's released.

He deliberately says what he's showing has 6x the throughput in deep learning compared to a Titan X... because we're already told that Pascal is massively better at mix mode compute.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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Charlie is basing his premise on Nvidia showing pre-production silicon to the public. When was the last time Nvidia did this with GPU's? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember when and what GPU it was, which goes to show that Nvidia hardly ever shows off pre-production GPU's. They show off Tegra early several times because they were trying to become an important supplier in the SoC space (which ultimately failed).

Case in point, when you are the undisputed leader in a particular market and not feeling significant pressure from the competition, you don't have to show your hand and attempt to drum up excitement. Also, this popped up 3 days ago: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/01/rumours-nvidia-will-unveil-their-flagship-pascal-gpu-in-april/ The article states GP100 comes in April, and the rest come starting in June. If so, that will mark a shift back to big die first, which will be impressive if true. Assuming Nvidia shows off pre-production silicon in April and doesn't mention release dates, then yes Nvidia has a problem. Otherwise it's business as usual.

rumour. but if the claim is they will unveil in april, not hard to imagine. Announcing a GPU is not the same as releasing. They should have something by then

also

ust to remind everyone: none of this is confirmed at this stage. The only supporting information provided is some shipping manifests on the Zauba import/export database, and the likelihood of an actual 32GB GPU seems highly doubtful since it would require production to have started on HBM 8GB modules (which I understood hadn’t begun yet).
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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He didn't lie. The company that made the silicone that was holding the acrylic box together was named Pascal. Very misleading but it's the nature of the biz.

You can buy Pascal silicone here if your really want to be the 1st one on the block to have some.

http://www.pascal-rosier.com/boutique.asp?Idbranche=128#

Well, I'm not going to look to see if that was actually what was going on, but the definition of a lie is "an attempt to deceive by changing or omitting the facts". Was it an attempt to deceive? Definitely! Did he omit any facts? The fact that it really wasn't a Pascal GPU like what he had been referring to. Face it, he lied.

Do I care that he lied, beyond wanting to have the actual facts? Not at all. JHH can lie to his faithful all he wants to. It doesn't matter to me. What I'm more interested in are the people, who when faced with the evidence, would rather believe and perpetuate the lies. The bold part actually concerns me.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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You are bringing it up. AMD hasnt shown Polaris to the public. Only a few guys were allowed to look at a Chip which AMD named Polaris. They werent even allowed to look into the PCs.

Really grasping at straws here. :D
 
Feb 19, 2009
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You are bringing it up. AMD hasnt shown Polaris to the public. Only a few guys were allowed to look at a Chip which AMD named Polaris. They werent even allowed to look into the PCs.

You must be telling the truth and the journalists who claim they saw the chip being held in hand, to be able to estimate it's die size must be lying...
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Well, I'm not going to look to see if that was actually what was going on, but the definition of a lie is "an attempt to deceive by changing or omitting the facts". Was it an attempt to deceive? Definitely! Did he omit any facts? The fact that it really wasn't a Pascal GPU like what he had been referring to. Face it, he lied.

Do I care that he lied, beyond wanting to have the actual facts? Not at all. JHH can lie to his faithful all he wants to. It doesn't matter to me. What I'm more interested in are the people, who when faced with the evidence, would rather believe and perpetuate the lies. The bold part actually concerns me.

We all know that he stood on that stage and flat out lied. Well most of us at least.

I just wanted to make a silly defense for JHH and NVidia post as I was feeling left out.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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Charlie is basing his premise on Nvidia showing pre-production silicon to the public. When was the last time Nvidia did this with GPU's? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember when and what GPU it was, which goes to show that Nvidia hardly ever shows off pre-production GPU's. They show off Tegra early several times because they were trying to become an important supplier in the SoC space (which ultimately failed).

Case in point, when you are the undisputed leader in a particular market and not feeling significant pressure from the competition, you don't have to show your hand and attempt to drum up excitement. Also, this popped up 3 days ago: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/01/rumours-nvidia-will-unveil-their-flagship-pascal-gpu-in-april/ The article states GP100 comes in April, and the rest come starting in June. If so, that will mark a shift back to big die first, which will be impressive if true. Assuming Nvidia shows off pre-production silicon in April and doesn't mention release dates, then yes Nvidia has a problem. Otherwise it's business as usual.

This rumor is the same one that's been circulating for a while. It's based on this roadmap.
NVIDIA-2014-2017-GPU-Roadmap.png


Notice that it's not an nVidia roadmap, but a 3rd party one. Also notice the "?" next to the release dates and virtually every spec listed. They are guesses that someone has made. We don't know what their evidence or intent was.

We all know that he stood on that stage and flat out lied. Well most of us at least.

I just wanted to make a silly defense for JHH and NVidia post as I was feeling left out.

Missed the sarcasm. ;)
 

Spanners

Senior member
Mar 16, 2014
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Ding, ding we have a winner. :thumbsup:

Am I missing something here? How does Bill Dally saying Pascal is "in the lab" have any relevance to Jen-Hsun Huang holding an allegedly non-Pascal mockup, or to what stage Pascal is in development? Who won what? I don't get the dinging at all.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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Yeah, I guess AMD GPUs has finally reached that level of desperation as AMD CPUs. Or has it always been like this?

I recall Fermi being 6 months late, hot, power hungry, and still kicking AMD's better GPU's ass. Dominating the HPC market, and frankly laughing all the way to the bank.

I don't even care if Nvidia is 4-6 months late. AMD has yet to show me they can do anything proper with a lead since...well, since ATI got absorbed into AMD.

We don't even have any info on Polaris beyond a controlled power environment and some how it is going to ignite a second sun? This hype train is going to be bloody if it derails.

I have no doubt NV is going to be "late" by which late is defined launching X-amount of time after AMD. Last few times NV was late, they cleaned house. Hopefully AMD is ready this time and we get a great product day 1 and not some stupid Fixer Youtube video.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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@railven
Whether AMD or NV makes more money is not relevant to the topic. It's just folks here don't want to see the signs that NV will be late, they refuse to accept that NV is very likely to be late with Pascal and they are claiming JHH didn't lie, that what he did doesn't mean anything, everything is on track for an April launch!
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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@railven
Whether AMD or NV makes more money is not relevant to the topic.

Then why would it matter to anyone if NV is late?

It's just folks here don't want to see the signs that NV will be late, they refuse to accept that NV is very likely to be late with Pascal and they are claiming JHH didn't lie, that what he did doesn't mean anything, everything is on track for an April launch!

I dunno about you, but the talking heads from both companies have pretty much opened their mouths and said the dumbest things.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
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Why is AMD being brought into this threat at all. They have nothing to do with anything in the OP.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is now. People are arguing about something being late when there is zero point of reference to base what "late" is in this scenario.
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
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While Charlie Demerjian is not the most impartial source, he's broken various significant stories about Nvidia shortcomings in the past - most notably, Bumpgate and the Fermi wood screw fiasco. This article gives clear and specific reasons to think that Pascal isn't nearly as far along as some Nvidia boosters seem to believe.

Let's keep in mind that Nvidia has never beaten ATI/AMD to a new node in the past. That's not to say it can't happen, just that it's not the way to bet. ATI's first 40nm card, the HD 4770, was released in late April 2009, while Nvidia didn't release 40nm Fermi products until late March 2010. That's a full 11-month lead for ATI, despite the fact that both companies were using the exact same TSMC process. Aside from Fermi architectural challenges, ATI's lead was also due to the fact that they started near the bottom, with the 137mm^2 RV740 chip, while Nvidia insisted on debuting their big-die GF100 (529mm^2) first.

Nvidia learned their lessons from that one; Kepler was a refinement to Fermi rather than a whole new architecture, and they started off with the smaller GK104 chip (294 mm^2), saving the big die for later. That enabled them to be only 3 months behind AMD on 28nm. But could they be repeating their past mistakes this generation? We know that AMD's Polaris 10 chip will be a small die (probably 100-140 mm^2), and this has already been demonstrated in public, so it could come to market very soon - perhaps even in the March refresh of the MacBook Pro. Meanwhile, most of the rumors around Nvidia are focused on "Big Pascal" (presumably GP100), with virtually nothing known about GP104 or GP107 even though these would be easier to manufacture and higher in volume. They could still pull out a surprise, but it's not looking likely at this point. I think they want to coast on Maxwell in user space for most of 2016, and are obsessed with bringing out Big Pascal to fight off Intel's advances into the HTPC market.

I now firmly believe that AMD will hold the technical lead in GPUs for the majority of this year. Whether they will be able to translate that into an increase in profits and market share is not a question I'm equipped to answer. AMD could come out with a clearly superior product and still get crushed by Nvidia's advertising might and inertia. But I think the smart gamers will be buying AMD Polaris cards in 2016.
 

nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
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That's a full 11-month lead for ATI, despite the fact that both companies were using the exact same TSMC process.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2855

Back in July NVIDIA launched their first 40nm GPUs, and their first GPUs featuring DX10.1 support; these were the GeForce GT 220 and G 210.
Some people can't even get their facts right, AMD has no 11 month lead in any delusional history that anyone here has.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37443058&postcount=227

The GTX980Ti is nothing more than the high bin 980, this time it is clocked at an even 1GHz.

Everything else should be the same as the non-Ti 980s, it isn’t the big Maxwell the BS rumor sites listed a while ago, it is just what we said it was last year.S|A

This is the kind of person you believe? Good for you I guess.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
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Jen-Hsun, successful billionaire CEO of very succesful tech company, what have you done in your life? Yeah, I thought so.

Personal attacks are not allowed.

Moderator Subyman
 
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