S939 X2/DDR vs. C2D/DDR2 vs. wait for quad core

[NicePants42]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
You kmow what, I wonder why some many people keep saying wait, x is just around the corner, but guess what, something is always around the corner. Just go out and get the most performance you can now that is in your budget.

Something new is always around the corner, true.

However at this particular point in time you have a new OS that is still very flaky, ATI's DX10 hardware is to be released in ~2 months, and DX10 itself hasn't been used in any games yet so no one knows how ATI/nVidia will match up or if DX10 will be worth it (right away).

If you wait until ATI and nVidia's DX10 cards both are available and (hypothetically) cost $500, and you buy one, and then DX10 game tests show that your card is inferior, you just lost money.

If you don't already own an 8800 (which you could've been getting great performance from for a considerable time now) and you buy a DX10 card now in anticipation of DX10 games, and then it turns out that due to Vista's craptasticality the games run better under DX9, you may not lose any money, but you'd probably be annoyed.

This isn't a simple case of 'there's always something faster around the corner so just get something now', this is a case of 'no one knows what performance is going to be like so buy at your own risk'.

 

[archcommus]

Okay I have an update.

I just found the thread that says that Crysis probably won' be out until this fall at the earliest, along with of course UT2007. So I really don't think I have much reason to do a full upgrade this summer at all, will probably wait until Crysis and/or UT2007 are out. However I don't want to be running Vista on a gig of RAM all the way until then, so I am considering getting a 2 gig DDR kit NOW (really no reason to wait a couple months, DDR isn't getting cheaper or faster), and then I'll be ready for Vista in May with my current rig but with 2 gigs of RAM. Then this fall, when I'm ready to upgrade further, all I'll need to get is a s939 X2 and a new video card. Do you think I could do that upgrade that late and still expect it to last me through all of 2008? What do you think of this plan?

Also please recommend a cheap but fast 2x1 GB DDR kit. I realize whatever I get will be higher latency than my current stuff so we have to make sure there won't be a noticeable performance drop.

 

[Solema]

It's a decent plan and should suffice for a while, but the only question mark is the availability of s939 X2's at the end of this year. It's true they are getting harder to find now, but I think by the end of the year more people will be selling them so you should be okay.

 

[archcommus]

Yeah, I mean even Athlon XP's can still be found on eBay.

What are the absolute highest timings I should accept that won't impact performance too much versus the Corsair it'll be replacing? Once I have some guidelines I'll post something in FS/T or check Newegg immediately.

 

[Solema]

Well, honestly, I'd really look for a nice high-speed 2GB kit. I picked up my OCZ 2-3-2-5 kit for $150 on FS/FT, and the timings, especially the CAS latency, do have a significant effect on FPS, sometimes to the tune of 15 or more FPS improvement.

There's gotta be plenty of people who migrated to C2D looking to sell some good DDR.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Solema
My one hangup with C2D is the motherboard. I myself wouldn't get anything less than an nForce 680i and they tend to run $200 or more, so it ends up not being near the same cost. That, and I'd have to get decent performance RAM as well that would have OC headroom.

Unless you need SLI, you are pissing money away. You can get great OC's(without the flakiness of the 680i's + $250+ price tag) with other chipsets.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Solema
Well, honestly, I'd really look for a nice high-speed 2GB kit. I picked up my OCZ 2-3-2-5 kit for $150 on FS/FT, and the timings, especially the CAS latency, do have a significant effect on FPS, sometimes to the tune of 15 or more FPS improvement.

There's gotta be plenty of people who migrated to C2D looking to sell some good DDR.

Okay so the first number is the CAS latency and I'm shooting for a 2, the same as my current set. The cheapest 2 gig DDR kit on Newegg with a CAS of 2 is $191, so I definitely need to hit up FS/T.

Should it be PC3200 again? Or will a future X2 run at a higher bus speed than 200 MHz?

 

[Solema]

PC3200 is what you want.

 

[Dacalo]

I am also thinking about upgrading, currently I have X2 4400+, 1GB RAM, and 7800GTX. I will be keeping the graphic card for sure until perhaps next year. I was planning on getting:

E4300 $165
DS3 rev 3.3 $135
2GB RAM $130

But, the newer MB only support 2 IDEs, so I have to end up purchasing new SATA drives, since the 2 IDEs will be taken up by the DVD drives. That will add another $180 for two 320 GB HDs.

So now I am giving up, not going to upgrade until Spring '08.

 

[Zebo]

If you have an X2 already you must have money burning a hole to get a c2d... or run photoshop filters all day long. The simple fact is money is much wiser spent in GPU's for gamers where you really will feel it with something like a GTX. Nothin bugs me more than seeing a c2d with a aging high end video card or 7600GT or something similar. Its like putting 44" mudders on a Z06 corvette. Many people trade "up" in this fashion and I have to laugh because it offers so little.

If you have a 939 single core, the wisest choice is an X2 or opteron 939 and get a high end video card GTS/GTX for high levels of happiness for monies spent.

If you have unlimited or lots of cash for your computing budget of course get a C2D and GTX or 2.

 

[LightningRider]

Same boat here

Athlon 64 3500+
3GB DDR400
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
GeForce 7800GTX

However, I recently have gotten into Supreme Commander and simply put, my CPU is not powerful enough to run this thing with more than 2-3 players (which sucks for online play). And with Core 2 prices (including the quad core) dropping by at least 40% in late April (22nd I believe), I think that I may just well go ahead and buy a new system.

After all, if you wait for the NEXT thing to come out, that will cost a fortune and you will blow all of your money. At least for those who upgrade to a Core 2 after the price drop, you will be getting still a killer system for much cheaper. I think the best thing to do is not to buy the latest thing but to buy after large price cuts.

After the price cut on C2 I think I will possibly get a Q6600 or an E6700, but I am still undecided. Supreme Commander makes use of quad core CPUs so it may be worth it for me.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Solema
PC3200 is what you want.

So all s939 X2's run at a bus speed of 200 MHz?

Originally posted by: Dacalo
I am also thinking about upgrading, currently I have X2 4400+, 1GB RAM, and 7800GTX. I will be keeping the graphic card for sure until perhaps next year. I was planning on getting:

E4300 $165
DS3 rev 3.3 $135
2GB RAM $130

But, the newer MB only support 2 IDEs, so I have to end up purchasing new SATA drives, since the 2 IDEs will be taken up by the DVD drives. That will add another $180 for two 320 GB HDs.

So now I am giving up, not going to upgrade until Spring '08.

I agree with Zebo, your system is fine and you don't need a C2D. All you need is another gig of RAM and maybe a new video card in 6 months or so.

Originally posted by: LightningRider
Same boat here

Athlon 64 3500+
3GB DDR400
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
GeForce 7800GTX

However, I recently have gotten into Supreme Commander and simply put, my CPU is not powerful enough to run this thing with more than 2-3 players (which sucks for online play). And with Core 2 prices (including the quad core) dropping by at least 40% in late April (22nd I believe), I think that I may just well go ahead and buy a new system.

After all, if you wait for the NEXT thing to come out, that will cost a fortune and you will blow all of your money. At least for those who upgrade to a Core 2 after the price drop, you will be getting still a killer system for much cheaper. I think the best thing to do is not to buy the latest thing but to buy after large price cuts.

After the price cut on C2 I think I will possibly get a Q6600 or an E6700, but I am still undecided. Supreme Commander makes use of quad core CPUs so it may be worth it for me.

If I were you I'd just pop an X2 in that thing and it'd be fine! Why go to all that other trouble. Once again maybe a new video card for DX10 stuff but that's it. I wouldn't toss 3 GB of DDR and your motherboard and all that when a s939 X2 would suit that system just fine.

 

[jjsbasmt]

While not a gamer per sey, I did the upgrade over the weekend. From a Venice 3500 to the Toledo 4400 Dual Core, and from 1 GB dual channel PC3200 to 2 GB Dual Channel. After a couple of days, I am favorably impressed with the speed increase. I expect to upgrade to Vista Ultimate in the near future, and expect it to run very well on this system.
I initially put out about $340 for the 3 items, (cpu, fan, memory) and will have only about
$270 invested after rebates from Tiger and Newegg.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: jjsbasmt
While not a gamer per sey, I did the upgrade over the weekend. From a Venice 3500 to the Toledo 4400 Dual Core, and from 1 GB dual channel PC3200 to 2 GB Dual Channel. After a couple of days, I am favorably impressed with the speed increase. I expect to upgrade to Vista Ultimate in the near future, and expect it to run very well on this system.
I initially put out about $340 for the 3 items, (cpu, fan, memory) and will have only about
$270 invested after rebates from Tiger and Newegg.

Impressed with speed increase in what tasks?

 

[Solema]

You will definitely notice the speed increase, in multi-tasking, application loading, OS boot times, and other stuff. I noticed a big increase in Vista just going from single-core to dual-core, especially when running many simultaneous apps.

 

[jjsbasmt]

My first observbation was that downloads from the internet are noticeably faster, (did not expect that one) and the defrag and virus and spyware scans take much less time. I use Mcafee, SpySweeper, and Perfect Disk for those tasks. Haven't yet done a full backup (Acronis) but I expect that task to complete faster too. Keep in mind that I ony upgraded this past Saturday, but in the upcoming days, I will use Flight Sim, convert music for use on my iPod, and perhaps author a dvd or two. With the incresed RAM, and the dual core with a larger cache than the Venice, I am expecting a much improved performance senario.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Off-topic, but why everyone says, I INVESTED in this or that computer part.

You don't invest in computer parts - you DUMP money in them, spend, throw. Because no computer part is going to INCREASE in value. As soon as you buy it it's value tumbles fast towards zero.

Could someone explain this to me?

 

[jjsbasmt]

"Invest" in that context, I don't expect to think that we feel that any parts will increase in value, however upgrades or new parts are considered an "investment" in our future, and the payoff is our ability to enjoy enriched entertainment and productivity from our systems.
Note: about a dozen years ago when I first got into this computer stuff, I had the wife of a friend tell me that this computer hobby would be a "money pit", and to this day I haven't been able to prove her wrong.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: jjsbasmt
"Invest" in that context, I don't expect to think that we feel that any parts will increase in value, however upgrades or new parts are considered an "investment" in our future, and the payoff is our ability to enjoy enriched entertainment and productivity from our systems.
Note: about a dozen years ago when I first got into this computer stuff, I had the wife of a friend tell me that this computer hobby would be a "money pit", and to this day I haven't been able to prove her wrong.

Ah, thanks I got it now.

 

[Solema]

Yeah, it's the same as when someone says "I invested a lot of time and effort into building this deck." An investment is merely putting something into something else to obtain results of some kind. In this case, it's putting money into a PC to extract productivity and efficiency increases, enjoyment, and time well spent.

But yeah, it's a money pit, too.