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Announcement Ryzen Wraith Spire Cooler is Horrible.

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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I personally never use any stock coolers, but my cousin wanted to save some cash.
Figured how bad could it be...

Its horrible....
The wraith max and prisms were fairly acceptable. but the spire is just a straight up waste of aluminum which is better used to make into beer cans.
Why AMD, you should just not give us a sink and make us save a few more dollars, instead of giving us this junk you call heat sink.
The CPU had high idles, and on a hot day like today, where ambients were like 30C, i was seeing an idle of 58C.
That is truly cringe worthy seeing how my 2080ti doesn't even load at 50C under its waterblock in the same ambient conditions.

I convinced my cousin to spend a little extra and get a Noctua.

Do yourself a favor, and grab that extra sink if your thinking of a new build and chug that stock cooler in the recycle bin, as i would rank it next to the intel stock coolers without the copper core.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,810
2,921
126
Odd comparison between WB 2080ti and the Wraith.

An idle of 58c does seem rather high, I suspect it is not Installed correctly or there's some other issue.

edit - hmm, I confused this with the Wraith Stealth that came with my 2600. So I likely was wrong in my assessment if he is using a 95+ watt CPU.
 
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UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
13,706
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I saw a comparison between the old stock fan vs. the newest version of it. Cooling was mostly comparable, but at the cost of higher noise. However, they are not as bad as the bundled Intel fans IMO.

 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
6,850
235
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Yes. I don't understand why AMD doesn't just design a really good cooler like the Prism and include it with all their CPU's or have an option for just the CPU alone.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,560
5,606
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Is this the reason why my Ryzen R5 3600 box still has my unused Wraith Stealth (V2) cooler sitting in the box, unused. :p
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,291
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Odd comparison between WB 2080ti and the Wraith.

An idle of 58c does seem rather high, I suspect it is not Installed correctly or there's some other issue.

edit - hmm, I confused this with the Wraith Stealth that came with my 2600. So I likely was wrong in my assessment if he is using a 95+ watt CPU.
I didnt want to pull intel into it, and cause another outlet for both bandcamps to hash it out at each other. :eek:

As for the mismount, that is what i initially thought too, but i did use multiple mounts, and even used Thermal Grizzly.
Got simular results.
I had to go into the fan settings and ram the fans to 100%.
But right out of the box, with default settings, and its sits high.
Its garbage IMO... they should of kept the copper core.

I saw a comparison between the old stock fan vs. the newest version of it. Cooling was mostly comparable, but at the cost of higher noise. However, they are not as bad as the bundled Intel fans IMO.
They needed to keep that copper core.
The new spire cooler also requires you to unmount the clip retention and screw it in the backplate.
Also i think Intel's is far more efficient, because the fan shroud on spire seems to choke the air at low rpms, while intel has no frame for the fan.
I was honestly going to just given him my prisim cooler i had from a old ryzen 2700x build, but i ran into the #1 problem with it... memory clearance on a ITX board... (DOE), that prism isnt a bad heatsink, the spire is absolute garbage.


Is this the reason why my Ryzen R5 3600 box still has my unused Wraith Stealth (V2) cooler sitting in the box, unused. :p
sigh... i wish i read reviews on the cooler, and not just the cpu.
oh wellz, he has a noctua coming in soon.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,536
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I guess I'll be "that guy" and say it: it's a stock cooler, how good does anyone expect it to be?

It was a smart move on AMD's part to include it as they didn't want sales of their processors held back by a lack of cooling solutions for the AM4 socket.

It's there is someone needs it, and it can be kept in the box if someone doesn't.

High idle temps are generally fine so long as the cooler is able to keep load temps under control so the processor doesn't throttle. Curious how it's doing on that front (have you benched it to see if the expected performance is way off)?
 
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aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Curious how it's doing on that front (have you benched it to see if the expected performance is way off)?
Cant butcher anything until its run its prime for at least a day with the new cooler.

Im one of the few that prebuilds everything outside the case on the box the board came with, and load up UEFI memtest86+ then throw a linux YUMI usb on it, then have it run prime for a few hours before i case install, and load win10 on it.

I always have to make sure im starting with solid hardware, before anything, or i don't want to waste both my time, and the person im building the PC for.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,218
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What model Ryzen is this? Ryzen's certainly idle at higher temps than an Intel, but that's the nature of 7nm. But, 58C is high. However, its high for that cooler. So its possible the HS is not as flat against the CPU as it should be, or its the HS compound. I know on my 3700X, I ended up moving to some Arctic M4, because temps were just not good.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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Darn these things run HOT...

Anyhow the Noctua U12 has dropped the idle temp to about 32C... but the full bloated load temps on prime95 will shoot it up to 75C.

So conclusion, the stock cooler sort of sucks... i think it would of been OK on an Intel Processor, but on a Ryzen, definitely not, the performance boost over intel definitely has a price that needs to be paid.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,218
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Darn these things run HOT...

Anyhow the Noctua U12 has dropped the idle temp to about 32C... but the full bloated load temps on prime95 will shoot it up to 75C.

So conclusion, the stock cooler sort of sucks... i think it would of been OK on an Intel Processor, but on a Ryzen, definitely not, the performance boost over intel definitely has a price that needs to be paid.
The high temps are a result of being 7nm. You end up with 95W being dispersed over a much smaller area. So its more difficult to get that heat out. However, the chips are fine for up to 95C. 75C is fine, as is your idle temps.

I know when I switched from a 4690K @4.5Ghz to a 3700X, I was also kind of in a "WTF are these temps", but have since learned its the nature of the beast. If Intel ever makes it to a smaller node, we will see similar temps.
 
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aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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32c seems pretty cool to me....my Intel is 62c right now.
:O

My cpu is sitting on a average of 27C across 12 cores as i type this right now... with a 25C water coolant temp.
This is an intel i9 tho..

I have a Ryzen 7 2700X at my office which i believe did way better the Ryzen 5 3600 thermal wise.
But that is on a noctua D15.
 
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piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
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I know when I switched from a 4690K @4.5Ghz to a 3700X, I was also kind of in a "WTF are these temps", but have since learned its the nature of the beast. If Intel ever makes it to a smaller node, we will see similar temps.
We already see them on 10nm mobile SoCs. People don't understand why they report higher core temperatures and it causes confusion in reviews and on forums.
I personally never use any stock coolers, but my cousin wanted to save some cash.
Figured how bad could it be...

Its horrible....
It really isn't. It's just cheap. What do you expect? :)
The CPU had high idles, and on a hot day like today, where ambients were like 30C, i was seeing an idle of 58C.
So it's 28*C rise. Not exactly a tragedy. I've seen higher values in Zen2 tests.
Most reviews you'll see online are with ambient temperature around 20*C.

As long as it doesn't hit 95*C under load and the fan noise is acceptable, don't worry too much. It isn't made from cheese. It won't melt. :)
 
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Meghan54

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2009
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The high temps are a result of being 7nm. You end up with 95W being dispersed over a much smaller area. So its more difficult to get that heat out. However, the chips are fine for up to 95C. 75C is fine, as is your idle temps.
It's an R5 3600, not the 3600X. It's a 65W cpu, not 95W like the 3600X is.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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Yeah its a non X, because my cousin isn't an avid cpu hobbyist, and has no intention to learn how to overclock or do so.
So i wanted the fastest chip under 200 dollars on stock, and the R5 3600 was a perfect hit as anything faster would of broke that 200 dollar barrier.
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
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Yeah its a non X, because my cousin isn't an avid cpu hobbyist, and has no intention to learn how to overclock or do so.
Both chips are unlocked, so I don't know why OC was a factor.
If anything, 3600 is the better choice for OC
The only difference is in clocks (base and boost). Underneath is the same chip, so they end up the same after OC.

AMD set 3600X price too high - it wasn't worth the extra $50 over 3600 ($249 vs $199). It was also somehow close to 3700X ($329).
This had the expected impact on how the prices evolved.
Today 3600 costs ~$170, 3600X is ~$200 and 3700X is ~$300.
I'm still not sure 3600X is worth the extra $30, but at least you're not being distracted by the 8-core, because price gap got much wider.

For me though, the largest difference is in the bundled coolers.
3600X gets a very decent Wraith Spire, while 3600 gets the Stealth.

Stealth is hardly better than the Intel stock cooler: weak, loud, poor sound profile (nothing stealthy about it).
But it's just 55mm tall (can be 48mm if you can live without the AMD logo), so could be a deciding factor for slim cases.
Spire is 69mm tall.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,645
41
91
I agree... Just before the new year, I built a mITX gaming machine with a 3600X. And I kept wondering why it's so damn noisy, and the idle temperatures hovered around 60C... After a couple of days of playing with fan speeds in BIOS (and even using a sthetoscope!), I realized it was the stock cooler.

Out it went. Once I got a proper replacement, I only see 60C when playing Doom Eternal...
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,256
562
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www.teamjuchems.com
Well, depending on binning, too.

IMHO, anything 6C/12T and up, in terms of Ryzen CPUs, should be on some sort of water-cooling.
Ha, my Noctua with a downgraded fan (for ARGB!!! Woooo!) keeps my 3600 (all core boost sits at 4.05 so nothing too amazing) at 64C under distributed computing loads like Rosetta and F@H. It's not silent because I haven't done anything other than an slight EUFI tune but... good air cooling can be OK for Ryzen I think :)
 

charlietee

Golden Member
Jul 27, 2001
1,274
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81
I just purchased a Ryzen 5 3600, X570 motherboard, and some memory. Was going to wait on getting aftermarket cooling but the stock cooler stopped me from even checking the system out. No copper core and it is supposedly a CPU that gets a little toasty.

Hopefully the cooler I purchased will arrive tomorrow. Just looking at the stock cooler was enough for me to not even consider using it.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,560
5,606
126
but... good air cooling can be OK for Ryzen I think
I used to say "go water", but that was before I guess I understood the differences between "hotspot temps" (and the temp reading on the CPU), and actual "heat output". 7nm CPUs, at least the single-chiplet ones, don't actually have a huge heat output, but they do have some hotspot temps, which makes the CPU seem "hot", but maybe it really isn't. Problem can be exacerbated by silicon differences, and heatspreader thermal conduction. Even with water-cooling, if the heatspreader or paste application isn't good, you won't be getting good temps, even if you can effectively dissapate, say, 200-250W of heat output. (*)

(*) Edit: I am NOT suggesting that a mere Ryzen R5 3600 can even dissipate 200-250W of heat output. Even a 3900X/3950X is limited to 142W PPT. Just talking about the class of cooler that some people slap on.
 
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