Ryzen: Strictly technical

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by The Stilt, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. dogen1

    dogen1 Senior member

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    Sure, but what if there's a game that renders a bunch of identical objects in a row without batching them for some reason. I'm sure it's happened before. Game development is a mess.

    This will at least make any games like that run faster.
     
  2. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    The VRM requirements for those specs would be quite low, < 90A sustained current capability will be sufficient even for the worst-case workloads in non-ideal conditions.
    I would look into ASUS offering as usual, mostly due to the software. PRIME B350-PLUS for example is more than enough for those specs.
     
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  3. MajinCry

    MajinCry Golden Member

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    You ever played a game that doesn't have shadows, lighting, object materials and shaders, that only has one (duplicated) object for the entire scene?
     
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  4. dogen1

    dogen1 Senior member

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    why would it need no shadows or lighting?

    it's the changes between draws that prevent this "auto batching feature"
     
  5. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    AVIC is supported on all Ryzen SKUs.

    Most of the stuff is handled through the SMN in Ryzen (completely different to anything previous), so frankly I have no idea how the virtualization stuff will behave.
    I would expect it to be a complete nightmare until everything is fully supported. Not only due how the functions are accessed on Zeppelin but because of all the security. Zeppelin is more secure than Fort Knox.

    Unfortunately at the moment I have no energy to even think about looking anything *nix related. If you want an advice, I would suggest you wait the software stack (firmwares, microcodes) to mature, until you even try anything as specific and niche (on consumer side) as this.
     
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  6. PPB

    PPB Golden Member

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    Good to know! I'm waiting for B350 ITX or B300 if that ever comes to a DIY motherboard. I'm considering 6 phases considering a minimum of 20A per phase without knowing the components (only really low end boards nowadays cant even get to 20A per phase).
     
  7. behrouz

    behrouz Senior member

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  8. MajinCry

    MajinCry Golden Member

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    That's what lighting and shadows do. They change the draws. With shadows, being a shadow caster increases the number of draws, as does having a shadow interact with another object.

    Draw calls are issued per object. A single object issues around 3 or 4 draw calls, in an actual game renderer, even in a scene with no shadows and no lights. Those draws are also not identical.

    Again, only in a synthetic benchmark will that faux instancing show any benefit.
     
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  9. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    That actually make perfect sense, the Stilit already told you fabric is tied to memory controller speed.

    We also know that the L3's are victim caches for their local CCX.
    Now we need to look at what the cache coherency protocol might look like, in generally in most coherency protocols that enable NUMA "Dirty lines" get flushed to memory to ensure stale data isn't accessed.

    So how much bandwidth do you need? Exactly the amount of memory bandwidth one 72bit ECC DDR4 interface can give you. @ 2400 that lots of reviews run at 22GB/S is more then enough.

    Its all about understanding the architecture.....................
     
    #59 itsmydamnation, Mar 2, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  10. dogen1

    dogen1 Senior member

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    Ok, lets just imagine a game that uses deferred shading, so it renders the geometry in one go before shading the whole screen at once. Now, if there's a game that does that but for some reason draws some identical geometries in a row, but without batching them for some reason, viola. This would help that hypothetical frankenstein of a game lol.
     
  11. flash-gordon

    flash-gordon Member

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  12. otinane

    otinane Member

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    That question could be a bit pre-mature, but out of all of these specs, on which could we expect they are going to focus on Zen II ?
     
  13. MajinCry

    MajinCry Golden Member

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    But that's the thing. It can't just be "some identical geometries". It has to be that all the geometries (or, like, a few hundred objects at least) are the same, for any practical benefit to be gained.
     
  14. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 Senior member

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    It only makes perfect sense if you treat Ryzen as closeted MCM of 2 separate quad core single channel dies. Because otherwise, what is the point talking about 16MB of L3 when only 8 of these are accessible in sane amount of time (i.e. faster than memory).
     
  15. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    Only from the perspective of a single core. This shouldn't be a big deal going forward, after all the consoles work just fine with a much worse solution between modules.
     
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  16. oneb1t

    oneb1t Junior Member

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    will there be any phenomMsrTweaker/amdmsrtweaker or similar program possible for ryzen? or its all locked out

    it will be really nice to set just singlethread turbo to 4.2ghz and leave rest at normal frequency as multithread performance is good even on low frequency
     
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  17. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    There are many more fabrics in Zeppelin than just the data fabric.
    I'd assume the inter-CCX fabric frequency is 4x DFICLK (i.e. 5333MHz @ 2666MHz DRAM), however I don't know it as a fact.
     
  18. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    There is very little use for such application, unfortunately.

    Configuring the Turbo or XFR is impossible, at least for the time being.
     
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  19. Rifter

    Rifter Diamond Member

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    If i want to run zen at 4Ghz all cores how beefy of a MB do you think will be required? and how much more beefy for 4.2Ghz
     
  20. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    There are no guarantees that you will be able to do that, regardless of the motherboard.
    ASUS PRIME X370-PRO and Crosshair VI Hero are one of your best bets.
     
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  21. Rifter

    Rifter Diamond Member

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    I realize that its luck of the draw with OC's, ive been overclocking for decades. I just wanted your opinion on how beefy the power phases needed to be to go up to 4.2. Im not building till summer anyways just putting my build together now and then will wait for the bugs to be worked out, then ill dive in.
     
  22. looncraz

    looncraz Senior member

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    This is how software should treat it. DRAM as LLC... not what I expected at all.

    This means memory frequency is all the more important. Ryzen may be more bandwidth sensitive than latency sensitive as a result.

    I apparently won't have a motherboard for a couple weeks (ARGH!) thanks to Amazon's ineptness, otherwise I would test this. For now, I'm going to write an app to do just that.
     
  23. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    Basically, a server uarch being purposed as a client. The real problem, I suppose, is that AMD didn't have the dosh to design a 'native' 8-core processor. AMD needed an implementation that could be largely shared between client (raven ridge) and workstation/server (summit ridge) - hence the development of the CCX. Pretty good for a scratch design - Intel has been iterating on 'Core' for 10 years.
     
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  24. bjt2

    bjt2 Senior member

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  25. imported_jjj

    imported_jjj Senior member

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    Curious about SMT's perf per W, would be nice if you could add that, guess 8C/8T would be easiest.