Ryzen-G builders beware

[mikeymikec]

I've just finished my first Ryzen-G build and it won't POST. It turns out that there's a BIOS update required to even get it to POST.

I'd suggest checking with your supplier that the board has the right BIOS version before they send it out.

 

[mdram]

it was announced
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12426/am4-motherboard-apu-bios-updates
https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-will-le...r-to-update-your-bios-to-support-a-ryzen-apu/

 

[William Gaatjes]

it was announced
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12426/am4-motherboard-apu-bios-updates
https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-will-le...r-to-update-your-bios-to-support-a-ryzen-apu/

It is amazing that the Asrock AB350M is mentioned. It does not have video output. What would be the use to run an apu in it ? As general cpu, yes but would that not be a waste? THe AB350M -HDV however has video outputs/ dvi + hdmi.

 

[EXCellR8]

always read a few reference articles before purchasing new hardware... another thing I like to do is look at what BIOS revisions are available from the vendor before I commit to any new purchase.

as for the APU coupled with a board that has no video out... there's still a practical use for a low power desktop APU when combined with a discrete video adapter but with an RR chip I'd want to use the embedded Vega chip also. in that regard, yes, that would be kind of a waste.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Well, at least everybody with a AB350M is warned as well.
I do hope that an ASROCK AB350M board will be able to boot up zen+ to do at least a proper bios update.
Otherwise i have to call the reseller if they can help me out with the board i bought but i never used so far.
Of course i hope this will be the case for all current available AM4 boards.

 

[UsandThem]

AMD has a program to borrow a CPU in order to flash the BIOS:

https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx

Edit: I see mdram already linked it.

 

[mikeymikec]

AMD has a program to borrow a CPU in order to flash the BIOS:

https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx

Edit: I see mdram already linked it.

I had already found that, but it also very much states their position as the end user's last resort (ie. if the motherboard manufacturer isn't forthcoming), and I know that ASUS will simply direct me straight back to my supplier, so I'm hoping that my supplier is going to be a teensy bit more helpful than they were earlier today.

 

[UsandThem]

I had already found that, but it also very much states their position as the end user's last resort (ie. if the motherboard manufacturer isn't forthcoming), and I know that ASUS will simply direct me straight back to my supplier, so I'm hoping that my supplier is going to be a teensy bit more helpful than they were earlier today.

Possibly. But this is just like what happened when Intel launched Kaby Lake CPUs. People would buy a system to build, and not be able to boot. Many retailers would not say what BIOS version the boards came with, so quite a few people would buy a Sky Lake Pentium CPU so they could update their BIOS.

If it were me, if I couldn't boot my system because of this, I'd go straight to AMD's program instead of mailing back the motherboard in hopes of getting another one with newer BIOS version.

 

[EXCellR8]

I think I remember going through the same thing with an older FM2 board and ended up buying a cheap A4 Trinity APU just so I could flash the BIOS to support the more powerful A10. Of course, I made the rook mistake of completely assembling the HTPC without considering that it might not work, so it basically had to be completely dismantled, swapped and then reassembled. Course it worked just ducky after that...

 

[mlhm5]

Hey AMD, wise men learn from the mistakes of others (Intel Kaby Lake) fools from their own.

...and for that reason

I had decided to build an mitx based on the Ryzen 5 2400G, using the Realan E-W80 and had priced all the items out on parts picker except for the G-unique PSU ($100) and the Realan case ($60) on PartsPicker and ended up with:

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($168.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L9a-AM4 33.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($108.39 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($199.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 2TB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $787.15

So adding in the PSU and case the total is $947

I have been reading about the problems with the supposed Raven Ridge motherboard and IMO, the bios is still in flux and some are saying wait for the 400 series, so I decided to look again at alternatives. I really want a small case and not a mini tower and did not want to drop $150+ on a case.

Not happy with the outputs on any of the mitx mb and there is some griping about the wifi/bt card not really working that well.

Having prices out the cheaper of the two hades canyon models with 16GB of memory and just the 500GB (for now)M.2. I have decided to wait until April for the hades canyon.

$799 + $186 memory + $199 M.2 = $1184

I know the hades canyon is faster than the Ryzen 5 2400G, has more ports including Thunderbolt and a lot more, so IMO my decision is made.

 

[XavierMace]

AMD has a program to borrow a CPU in order to flash the BIOS:

https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx

Edit: I see mdram already linked it.

There's a few of us on here who have already used it. See this thread: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/what-mini-itx-motherboard-to-pair-with-ryzen-5-2400g.2537130/

I'm a bit surprised however that this seems to be coming as a shock to people. This is hardly a new thing. A new generation processor on an existing board pretty much always needs a BIOS update.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm a bit surprised however that this seems to be coming as a shock to people. This is hardly a new thing. A new generation processor on an existing board pretty much always needs a BIOS update.

I can't say I've experienced it except in the form of already having a working system and wanting to upgrade the CPU to something newer than the board, then I'd check the CPU support list and likely do the latest BIOS update anyway. Otherwise I've seen issues like the system incorrectly ID'd a newer processor and maybe also running it at the wrong speed until the update was done.

The closest scenario I've encountered to this situation was when I built a Z97 system for myself and a Devil's Canyon processor for it, but frankly I didn't even consider the possibility that the processor was too new for the board. It worked straight out of the box.

 

[XavierMace]

I know Sandy/Ivy had the same issue. I seem to recall the later C2Q's having the same issue. It's a matter of the supply chains getting boards with the updated BIOS and AMD seems determined to push out the new processors before the BIOS are ready.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Hopefully you guys have some nice hardware stores in your area. We've been flashing BIOS for people for free with an in house Bristol Ridge APU if they bought the Raven Ridge APU's not knowing about the BIOS limitation. It's good publicity and usually results in a positive Google/Yelp review so try a local shop

 

[jpiniero]

Possibly. But this is just like what happened when Intel launched Kaby Lake CPUs. People would buy a system to build, and not be able to boot.

I dunno, I would assume that people buying Kaby would also buy a 200 series board. Yeah they probably should have had the 400 series ready to go with RR's launch but stuff happens.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ok, this is weird. I had previously tried out the "newest" (as of, a month or so ago?) BIOS/UEFI for my AB350M Pro4 board, in this rig with a Ryzen 1600, and I had nearly endless crashes, failures to boot Windows 10, it was a total mess.

I had to clear CMOS, and somehow got back into the BIOS menu, to re-flash back to 3.40.

Well, fast-forward to tonight, and I flashed from 3.40, to 4.50 (not sure if that's what I tried before), and this time, it seems like it "took" OK. I let it reboot itself a few times afterwards, and then it booted into Windows 10, no problem thus far, and mining away.

Shrug. WFM this time, now.

I guess I can then drop in a Raven Ridge?

Edit: It might have been 4.40 that caused me all the trouble, that version seems to have been pulled.

Edit: UEFI 4.50, lets me use my Team Vulcan DDR4-3000 16GB kit @ 2933 just by setting XMP!

 

[XavierMace]

Yeah, the 4.40 BIOS has been pretty much poo on all their boards. I'm normally a pretty big Asrock fan, but that BIOS severely tempered that.

 

[mikeymikec]

I've applied for the bootkit, though I can't see me getting it the way that their initial comments are worded. I'm considering buying a cheap AM4 CPU even though I know sod's law dictates that if I buy one, then I won't be doing another computer build for long enough that the boards will be sent out with the required update by then.

 

[XavierMace]

I don't see why you wouldn't. They just asked for a picture of the CPU and a copy of the invoice.

 

[mikeymikec]

I don't see why you wouldn't. They just asked for a picture of the CPU and a copy of the invoice.

In the main spiel before one gets to the warranty form it (now?) says that you need a reason why your manufacturer won't do it for you. They're currently emphasizing that in the latest e-mail they've sent to me.

3. A summary or copy of your communication with the motherboard manufacturer to indicate why support from the Original Design Manufacturer (ODM) is not suitable.

 

[XavierMace]

Hmmm. Well, I haven't sent mine back yet, maybe we should just turn it into an AT collective boot kit and pass it around? LOL.

 

[mikeymikec]

Hmmm. Well, I haven't sent mine back yet, maybe we should just turn it into an AT collective boot kit and pass it around? LOL.

I suspect you're in the US so there'd be some hefty postage/customs charges involved

TBH I'm thinking of biting the bullet and buying the cheapest first-gen AM4 APU even though it might end up being a waste of money (depending on when my next customer computer build happens though I need one for the one I'm currently stuck on).

 

[XavierMace]

I suspect you're in the US so there'd be some hefty postage/customs charges involved

TBH I'm thinking of biting the bullet and buying the cheapest first-gen AM4 APU even though it might end up being a waste of money (depending on when my next customer computer build happens though I need one for the one I'm currently stuck on).

True, and it's definitely not worth shipping over seas. I just got a reminder from AMD that I haven't sent it back along with a warning of "If you don't send it back, we might not send you another one in the future".

 

[mikeymikec]

I gave up on the idea of convincing AMD and went and bought my own A6-9500 (there's half a chance I might be building another computer for the customer before the boards I'll be using typically go out with the required BIOS update).

I have to say, I hate the HSF that comes with the 2200G: What may seem like a simple system is not confidence-inspiring because you have to hold the HSF down with a fair bit of force while you screw the HSF into the board, and re-attaching the HSF while the board is in the case is not something I'm particularly comfortable about doing (ie. feeling the board flex under the pressure one has to put on it). So I undid all the screws, then the HSF wouldn't budge. I guessed it was the paste so I gently rotated the HSF about ten degrees each way and it steadily let go.

Then I found that excess HSF paste had slithered over the sides of the CPU, making it difficult to get a clean hold on the CPU while I removed it. I tried to get my nails under the drips of paste to get them out of the way but they were in a very liquid state so I ended up just trying to remove the CPU as cleanly as possible, then some paste ended up on multiple points of the socket. I gently used a cotton wool bud to try and swipe those off, only succeeding in getting some further into the socket.

I put the A6-9500 in and just laid a spare HSF on the top instead of potentially going through the same mess again. BIOS update went fine. I put the 2200G back in and my heart nearly stopped when the computer took at least 10 seconds longer to do an 'OK' BIOS beep and for the screen to come on (since the computer has been POSTing quickly).

As the spread of paste looked pretty decent on both the CPU and the HSF I didn't bother to re-apply it, but I'm wondering whether I should have done considering that the CPU temp was approximately 37C while in the BIOS. The fan speed is about 1500RPM which is more than I'd expect for a modern Intel stock HSF (about 1000RPM, usually slightly under).

- edit - it's calmed down to early 30C temps and about 1000-1300RPM so not too bad.

 

[XavierMace]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the heatsink at all. It takes an excessive amount of force to install.