Discussion Ryzen 9000X3D series review thread

[Hans Gruber]

The performance increase of the 9800x3D are offset by the power increase vs. 7800x3D. I still cannot figure out why there is a power increase using N4P. For every 1% of performance gain there is basically a 1% increase in power over the 7800x3D. It would be nice to see the same power usage while gaming vs. 7800x3D. Below you can see the nice FPS gains with a 9800x3D but the power use seems to be the cost of the performance uplift.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

SMDH, complaining about power usage on the fastest gaming CPU and it never hits a 100W in the linked tests.

Jeff's review is interesting because it showed even with a 4070TS at 1440 high and ultra the 9800X3D provides a significantly better gaming experience than the 9700X.

 

[Joe NYC]

The performance increase of the 9800x3D are offset by the power increase vs. 7800x3D. I still cannot figure out why there is a power increase using N4P. For every 1% of performance gain there is basically a 1% increase in power over the 7800x3D. It would be nice to see the same power usage while gaming vs. 7800x3D. Below you can see the nice FPS gains with a 9800x3D but the power use seems to be the cost of the performance uplift.

Straw man argument from anyone who does not already own 7800x3d. Which happens to be the majority of people making this argument.

 

[In2Photos]

The performance increase of the 9800x3D are offset by the power increase vs. 7800x3D. I still cannot figure out why there is a power increase using N4P. For every 1% of performance gain there is basically a 1% increase in power over the 7800x3D. It would be nice to see the same power usage while gaming vs. 7800x3D. Below you can see the nice FPS gains with a 9800x3D but the power use seems to be the cost of the performance uplift.

It's all due to clock speeds.

Like the rest of Zen 5 the 9800X3D doesn't really have much of an IPC/node improvement over Zen 4. It simply gets additional performance via clock speed which the rest of Zen 5 doesn't get. So the 9800X3D really does follow the rest of the Zen 5 lineup in that regard. AMD was just able to get the clock speeds up due to the placement of the cache.

 

[Hans Gruber]

It's all due to clock speeds.

Like the rest of Zen 5 the 9800X3D doesn't really have much of an IPC/node improvement over Zen 4. It simply gets additional performance via clock speed which the rest of Zen 5 doesn't get. So the 9800X3D really does follow the rest of the Zen 5 lineup in that regard. AMD was just able to get the clock speeds up due to the placement of the cache.

Your post does not make sense. The 9700x has a max boost clock speed of 5500mhz. The 9800x3D has a boost in the video I posted of 5225mhz. The performance improvement of the 3D v-cache chips comes from the additional L3 cache stacked on the chips.
Performance: N4P offers an 11% performance boost over N5
Power efficiency: N4P is 22% more power efficient than N5
Transistor density: N4P has a 6% higher transistor density than N5
6% higher performance vs N4

That's why I am trying to figure out why the 9800x3D uses 10-20% more power while gaming than the 7800x3D which uses N5 silicon. That is real world observed power use while gaming and not paper numbers. I included the 6% higher performance number of N4P vs. N4 as well. N4P is very good silicon and the power use does not make sense. The X3D chips were voltage restricted in the past vs. standard X chips. So the power usage should be equal to or less. With N4P silicon efficiency gains should put the power usage at 7800x3D numbers or less. The 9800x3D clocks are less than 5% higher than the 7800x3D. Well within the TSMC statistical performance gains (N4P) through silicon alone.

Maybe AMD will release bios updates addressing the higher power use in the 9800x3D.

 

[CP5670]

The power efficiency is still very good, the 7800x3d was an outlier and not a good basis for comparison. Also the X670E platform uses much more power than my old Z490 setup (about 60W more) even on idle, which offsets the whole efficiency argument.

 

[Hitman928]

Your post does not make sense. The 9700x has a max boost clock speed of 5500mhz. The 9800x3D has a boost in the video I posted of 5225mhz. The performance improvement of the 3D v-cache chips comes from the additional L3 cache stacked on the chips.
Performance: N4P offers an 11% performance boost over N5
Power efficiency: N4P is 22% more power efficient than N5
Transistor density: N4P has a 6% higher transistor density than N5
6% higher performance vs N4

That's why I am trying to figure out why the 9800x3D uses 10-20% more power while gaming than the 7800x3D which uses N5 silicon. That is real world observed power use while gaming and not paper numbers. I included the 6% higher performance number of N4P vs. N4 as well. N4P is very good silicon and the power use does not make sense. The X3D chips were voltage restricted in the past vs. standard X chips. So the power usage should be equal to or less. With N4P silicon efficiency gains should put the power usage at 7800x3D numbers or less. The 9800x3D clocks are less than 5% higher than the 7800x3D. Well within the TSMC statistical performance gains (N4P) through silicon alone.

Maybe AMD will release bios updates addressing the higher power use in the 9800x3D.

1. Your quoted improvements are for iso-design. Zen 5 and Zen 4 are not iso-design.
2. As others have already mentioned multiple times, the improvements don't apply uniformly across the entire V/F curve.

 

[gdansk]

How many times do we have to tell Hans that process isn't everything?
The parameters of the SKU also help determine performance and power. Power went up because clock rates went up. And it is now further along the v/f curve, reducing efficiency for every bit of further performance.

The 7800X3D was so efficient it isn't a serious increase. But I wish AMD hadn't discontinued it so that tiny ITX builders still had a gaming SKU they don't have to tune out of the box.

 

[Hans Gruber]

How many times do we have to tell Hans that process isn't everything?
The parameters of the SKU also help determine performance and power. Power went up because clock rates went up. And it is now further along the v/f curve, reducing efficiency for every bit of further performance.

The 7800X3D was so efficient it isn't a serious increase. But I wish AMD hadn't discontinued it so that tiny ITX builders still had a gaming SKU they don't have to tune out of the box.

If process isn't everything or anything. Then why doesn't AMD stay on N5? Zen 4 was very good but not quite great. AMD saved itself a bit with the 9800x3D. I think within 3 or 4 months AMD will release a new AGESA bios update addressing the power consumption. It did take AMD a year to smooth out Zen 4. There are a lot of people who like CPU's that are power efficient. AMD has been really good since they moved to TSMC silicon.

 

[Makaveli]

8% increase over 7800X3D when testing across 45 games, that's more inline with what I expected, not 11%. Still decent after how bad Zen 5 regular CPU were for gaming compared to Zen 4.

What is the performance difference between vanilla Zen 4 vs vanilla Zen 5?

 

[gdansk]

Then why doesn't AMD stay on N5?

Because N4P is better but you're looking at a process when the reason 9800X3D uses more power is mainly due to product parameters.

Here look at this chart

The 9600X and the 9950X are on the same process and architecture. Yet the 9600X is 92% more frames per watt. Why? It's product parameters - TDP, clock rates, etc.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Because N4P is better but you're looking at a process when the reason 9800X3D uses more power is mainly due to product parameters.

Here look at this chart
View attachment 111395
The 9600X and the 9950X are on the same process and architecture. Yet the 9600X is 92% more frames per watt. Why? It's product parameters - TDP, clock rates, etc.

This youtube video is from two months ago. The 9700x vs 7800x3D. The power usage for the 9700x was pretty bad on launch. In two months AMD has dialed the power usage back with the 9800x3D. I think the power use numbers will come down a bit more with upcoming bios updates. It will probably take 6 months to dial in Zen 5 for AMD. Zen 4 took about a year for AMD to get all the bugs out. I wonder if AMD will be released a 9700x3D soon.

 

[Hitman928]

This youtube video is from two months ago. The 9700x vs 7800x3D. The power usage for the 9700x was pretty bad on launch. In two months AMD has dialed the power usage back with the 9800x3D. I think the power use numbers will come down a bit more with upcoming bios updates. It will probably take 6 months to dial in Zen 5 for AMD. Zen 4 took about a year for AMD to get all the bugs out. I wonder if AMD will be released a 9700x3D soon.

The x3d chips use less power than non x3d chips using the same architecture at the same core counts and roughly the same frequencies (you need less frequency to get the same performance). It has nothing to do with the process or working out bugs or microcode optimizations.

 

[Thibsie]

The 5800X3D kit should be easier to sell, but harder to replace. Keep that one.

If anyone in EU has a 5800x3D to sell at a good price, I'd be interested

 

[Thunder 57]

I did not know Tom's has a YT channel now. Makes sense as printed reviews are for old people that can sit still and read for 10 minutes. Production values and camera are worse than a teen in their bedroom. We don't need homie's ugly mug that close up either.

He is another reviewer inexplicably (not really, most of us know why) still using a raptor test platform being forced to upgrade to AM5.

Jeff did a review using a 4070 tie super. And people complain about Intel and AMD naming schemes. Interesting

I guess that maakes me old then. Written articles are far superior IMHO. Except maybe Techtesters, but only because of the host.

 

[maddogmcgee]

The review we have been waiting for is up. Ranked just behind the mighty i5-7200u.

 

[Thunder 57]

The review we have been waiting for is up. Ranked just behind the mighty i5-7200u. View attachment 111403View attachment 111404

It gets it's ass whooped but is ranked higher? Oh CPUPro you must be really be mad.

 

[Abwx]

Summary of the main reviews :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1855616908282003733

 

[Hans Gruber]

The x3d chips use less power than non x3d chips using the same architecture at the same core counts and roughly the same frequencies. It has nothing to do with the process or working out bugs or microcode optimizations.

Hitman, when you are not double tapping people. I am guessing you never download AMD chipset drivers for their CPU's or update your bios on your PC. It's not that it's too difficult for you. It has to do with working out bugs and updating the microcode of a brand new CPU architecture. But what do I know?

 

[Hitman928]

Hitman, when you are not double tapping people. I am guessing you never download AMD chipset drivers for their CPU's or update your bios on your PC. It's not that it's too difficult for you. It has to do with working out bugs and updating the microcode of a brand new CPU architecture. But what do I know?

What updates are you referring to specifically that drop the power consumption under load?

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Computerbase did an iso clock comparison between 7700X, 7800X3D, 9700X and 9800X3D.

AMD Ryzen 9000X(3D) vs. 7000X(3D) bei 4,8 GHz im Vergleich

Warum ist der AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D in Spielen im Vergleich zum 7800X3D schneller als gedacht? Benchmarks bei gleichem Takt geben Antwort.

www.computerbase.de

The 9800X3D gains more compared to 9700X than 7800X3D does compared to 7700X. Kinda telling wrt how memory-bottlenecked Zen 5 is.

 

[coercitiv]

The 9800X3D gains more compared to 9700X than 7800X3D does compared to 7700X. Kinda telling wrt how memory-bottlenecked Zen 5 is.

Also puts to rest all the efficiency talk, at ISO clocks the 9800X3D was ~15% faster than 7800X3D while consuming ~11% more power.

 

[poke01]

My 7700X is better than the 285k in gaming at 4k :O

 

[DAPUNISHER]

PCRag updated their review. They shilled so hard PCMR is accusing Sexton of being the owner of userbenchmark. 🤣Am I the only one that thinks the updated review is somehow worse? Esports is how they are trying to walk it back?

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d

I forgot to note that userbenchmark has declared spending over $200 on a gaming CPU is pointless. Do they not understand they are hurting their beloved if they don't pimp higher ASP parts?

Hassam at Tom's covered it - https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-marketing-rather-than-real-world-performance

One of the incorrigible trolls we banned here, is 💩 posting in the article comments for the 9800X3D. Good times.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My 7700X is better than the 285k in gaming at 4k :O

The 5800X3D AKA the GOAT revisit section, exemplifies why the talking points about higher res gaming are so silly. Using a 3090ti under the test conditions, performance is identical to a 3950X and 5800X. With the 4090 is smokes them. The 5090 should provide a similar, if not as large boost for CPU testing.

I enjoyed his debunking. The salient point, one some of us have belabored for years is: You can always adjust settings for better performance with your GPU. But when the CPU is tapped out, that's it. Sure, there are some games you can use settings in to relieve a bit of the CPU load. In games like GTAV, 2077, and Spiderman games, it is the worst compromise to make as the crowds and traffic bring the world alive.

It sucks he needed to spend so much time addressing obvious stuff about personal gaming preferences and habits. Unfortunately, there are mouthbreathers that only have those blanks to shoot. They will proceed to make a lot of loud sounds with no effect. Unless it is expressly explained to them why firing those blanks is nothing more than noise. A few will of course, keep pulling the trigger just to try to get a rise out of people.