Question Ryzen 7 3700X - CPU throttled?

[ch33zw1z]

Hi all,

I've just got done upgrading my CPU / MB, and have a question about what I should be expecting from the processor / if it's throttling. Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X w/ stock wraith cooler and thermal grease
MB: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS (at latest BIOS)
DIMMs: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3000C15D-16GRK - two sets, set to run at rated speeds.
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 1660 Super

The CPU is said to run up to 4.4Ghz, but it's topping out around 4 at the most. Scenario:

idle temps start around 41-45C

1. Kick off a Handbrake job que.
2. Hardware Monitor shows CPU temp increase to 74-76C, CPU fan speed increases
3. CPU-Z shows Core speed around 3.8-3.9 (sometimes 4.0) Ghz
4. Windows Task Manager is the same

My question is based around the expectation that the CPU can get to 4.4. Because it stopped at 74-76C and is consistently hovering there, and the CPU speed is consistently at 3.8-3.9, I'm thinking that the system is throttling this CPU a little to "save" itself.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Pictures attached

EDIT: Reading this, it appears it's probably just deciding to throttle based on sensor readouts, might need to apply aftermarket thermal paste and/or buy an aftermarket cooler to get the max boost clock.

Also, maybe the latest driver, currently running the v2.11 from Asus's website

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-ryzen-chipset-2-13-27-501

 

[DrMrLordX]

Just for clarity, bulk die == total temp read out, hotspot is individual core readouts?

No it will read hotspot as the standard temp readout. Bulk die is meaningless for any AMD CPU on TSMC N7

 

[ch33zw1z]

No it will read hotspot as the standard temp readout. Bulk die is meaningless for any AMD CPU on TSMC N7

Ok, thanks. So when HW Mon reads out 75C, that's just the hottest temp.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Correct. It should also tell you how hard it is to lower temp readings without some form of refridgeration.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Correct. It should also tell you how hard it is to lower temp readings without some form of refridgeration.

Cool, and thanks again (everyone) for responding. I'm gonna see how the 212 evo v2 does, and if I'm not happy, I may splurge on a AIO liquid cooler. I've got two empty 120mm spots that should fit a 240mm rad no problem

 

[ch33zw1z]

Think I found some of the problem, the stock cooler sucks, and the stock thermal grease pre applied didn't really spread at all.

I'm not thrilled with the 212 evo v2 either, I just started to install it and it's a lower quality than v1, and the bracket doesn't hold tight to the mobo, wiggling around a bit.

So if I wanna use it, I'll have to get some nylon or rubber washers to make it more sturdy.

I'm starting to look at AIO coolers now though. Anyone have suggestions as to what is OK? My case is a Fractal Design Focus G, board in OP. Right now the Corsair H100i is $90 on their site.

Edit: H100i isn't for AM4, looking at H100x instead. Fractal design has their own, a bit more pricey though.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Not a huge fan of AiOs unless they're 280mm ones, but the Corsair units should do okay. You may actually get as-good performance out of something like the Dark Rock Pro 4 or NH-D15.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not a huge fan of AiOs unless they're 280mm ones, but the Corsair units should do okay. You may actually get as-good performance out of something like the Dark Rock Pro 4 or NH-D15.

I started with air cooler because I'm not a water near my electronics guy 😉. But now I'm just digging thru info on both.

I was sizing up the d15, and noctua says it's compatible with both the case and board I have. But, the cooler master 212 I've been using is right near the side of the case cover, and is 6.5mm shorter than the d15. So I'm not sure if the d15 will really fit. Fractals website says max cooler height is 165mm, so technically either of those air coolers should fit.

The dark rock pro 4 would probably be abetter choice for me, with the 2mm shorter height and 8mm increase in dimm clearance due to smaller intake fan.

I'm not sure a 280 AIO would fit either. The top case screw mounts go far enough towards the front of the case that they are just into the 5.25" bay, with 28.575 mm clearance between the top of the case and the 5.25 cage.

The 240(120x2) mounts are inside the 140, and don't extend into the 5.25" cage area, rad+fans should fit.

There's always the option to get a new case, as the build expands lol

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah clearance is always a problem with some of the bigger/better cooling solutions. Physics is a female dog, as they say. It does look like your current circumstances may make the 240mm AiO option your best bet.

 

[ch33zw1z]

After deliberation, purchased the H100x and will be returning the 212 evo v2. Here's to change

 

[ch33zw1z]

And fwiw, I reapplied new thermal grease to the stock hsf and the temps still suck. It's just a garbage product

 

[ch33zw1z]

Just an update....I bought the AIO from Corsair directly, and boy are they slow to ship, 9 business days to delivery (4/1 delivery ETA, purchased 3/22), and it sat at their dock for 2 days after the label was created. I took some time to watch some video's by reputable reviewers about AIO's...and what stuck out to me was potentially compromising the integrity of plastics used in AIO's with extended duration heavy workloads. That's exactly what I'm doing with this, not much light gaming (or even moderate). So I decided to pick up a Noctua NH-D15, and it does end up fitting on my board and in the case (except the front fan spot, which works fine with a 120mm). I'm not a big water cooling fan, as I plan on que'ing up lots of work for the setup and walking away for potentially days at a time. The last thing I need is the AIO failing while I'm not babysitting it and damaging the CPU, or worse...taking more components with it.

I've managed to organize the fan setup in the case and set the fan speeds for CPU and Chassis1 as Turbo as to keep the temps maxing just about 70C. For reference, the stock cooler was reaching 80C, very quickly, before I stopped workload altogether.

Fan config:
On the Noctua - Middle - 140mm fan, 1400RPM ; Front - Noctua 120mm NF-P12 1700RPM
- 140mm is on the CPU_FAN header, 120mm is on the CPU_OPT header. I was using the Chromax on the front, but realized the CPU FAN header controls the CPU OPT fan speed, and the Chromax was changing RPM's with the 140mm, which means it was either maxed at 1200RPM during workload, or exceeding max RPM's to keep up with the 140. So I swapped in the 1700RPM from chassis 1 spot.
Case - Rear - Noctua Chromax
Case - Top - Some 120mm fan - added to increase exhaust flow
Case - Front - 2x120mm fans from Fractal

Rear and top are sharing Chassis1 fan with a splitter.

With this config, like I said, max temp so far is 70C.

Also, there's 3 BIOS settings I changed:
1. CPU Fan - Turbo
2. Chassis Fan - Turbo
3. Asus profile - changed to Normal

One (or more of these settings, maybe in conjunction with the new cooling), has normalized by CPU clock to 4049Mhz. It doesn't change from that.

I'm considering upgrading to a case like the bequiet! Dark Base 700. I'm getting the feeling that this is just too much machine for the Fractal Focus G case.

The Dark Base 700 would be a considerable upgrade. The inverted motherboard config fits the orientation of desk much better, and would put the CPU in the middle of the case....allowing a little breathing room.

I'm also considering coupling this case with some Noctua AF-14 iPPC 3000 Fans, maybe even on the CPU itself. I'm thinking the intake and exhaust fans could be more standard 1400-1700 RPM fans 2 front, 2 rear, and use the high RPM fans on the noctua itself

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm also considering coupling this case with some Noctua AF-14 iPPC 3000 Fans, maybe even on the CPU itself. I'm thinking the intake and exhaust fans could be more standard 1400-1700 RPM fans 2 front, 2 rear, and use the high RPM fans on the noctua itself

First off, glad you got the NH-D15 working in that case. I had one on my 1800x with two of the above-mentioned fans (running at full 3000 RPM) and it handled heat loads of up to around 200W (I think?) while keeping the CPU below 80C. Granted that was just Zen1 so no AVX2 and less hotspotting, but still. It did the job.

Those fans are potentially LOUD. If noise is not an issue or if you want reduced RPMs then go for it. In terms of performance at a given RPM, they are beasts with amazing static pressure. But with two of those things running full tilt on my NH-D15, it was like an airport in here. Also you will need special fan clips (available from Noctua) if you want to use the IndustrialPPC3000 fans on the NH-D15. The are box fans and have different holes for the clips than the round fans that they normally ship for use on HSFs (such as the stock fan(s)).

 

[ch33zw1z]

First off, glad you got the NH-D15 working in that case. I had one on my 1800x with two of the above-mentioned fans (running at full 3000 RPM) and it handled heat loads of up to around 200W (I think?) while keeping the CPU below 80C. Granted that was just Zen1 so no AVX2 and less hotspotting, but still. It did the job.

Those fans are potentially LOUD. If noise is not an issue or if you want reduced RPMs then go for it. In terms of performance at a given RPM, they are beasts with amazing static pressure. But with two of those things running full tilt on my NH-D15, it was like an airport in here. Also you will need special fan clips (available from Noctua) if you want to use the IndustrialPPC3000 fans on the NH-D15. The are box fans and have different holes for the clips than the round fans that they normally ship for use on HSFs (such as the stock fan(s)).

Good to know. 41.3 decibels shouldn't sound like a jet engine, but I remember in the past how cooling corps like to measure stuff . Thanks for the tip on the clips, I'm looking around the Noctua website, but haven't found those clips...yet.

Any thoughts on a case upgrade impacting temps? I would really not like to spend the 3-400 bucks on a new case, fans, and external 5.25 enclosure (because new case doesn't have one) and have the cpu still running at 70c.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Good to know. 41.3 decibels shouldn't sound like a jet engine, but I remember in the past how cooling corps like to measure stuff .

You'll find out!

Thanks for the tip on the clips, I'm looking around the Noctua website, but haven't found those clips...yet.

I had to contact support and special request them. I did it at the same time that I put in a request for an AM4 compatibility kit since AM4 was pretty new back then.

Any thoughts on a case upgrade impacting temps?

With a fan setup that aggressive on the HSF, as long as the HSF has a good flow path out of the case, there should not be a big issue. Back when I had an NH-D14 + 2 fast fans (a Delta and Nidec Servo, both loud), I was using an old Centurion 5 with the rear grill torn out by wire cutters. The only intake was a desk fan blowing into the side (side panel was removed). Putting on the side case raised CPU temps in that scenario by maybe 2-3C? And that was with heavily overclocked AM2 crap pulling more power for less benefit than your 3700x.

Realistically-speaking, two fans in series like that without a duct will pull over 140cfm from anywhere they darn well please, backed by massive static pressure. Your only risk is re-circulating the same air.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You'll find out!



I had to contact support and special request them. I did it at the same time that I put in a request for an AM4 compatibility kit since AM4 was pretty new back then.



With a fan setup that aggressive on the HSF, as long as the HSF has a good flow path out of the case, there should not be a big issue. Back when I had an NH-D14 + 2 fast fans (a Delta and Nidec Servo, both loud), I was using an old Centurion 5 with the rear grill torn out by wire cutters. The only intake was a desk fan blowing into the side (side panel was removed). Putting on the side case raised CPU temps in that scenario by maybe 2-3C? And that was with heavily overclocked AM2 crap pulling more power for less benefit than your 3700x.

Realistically-speaking, two fans in series like that without a duct will pull over 140cfm from anywhere they darn well please, backed by massive static pressure. Your only risk is re-circulating the same air.

Cool, thanks

Reading up on airflow / static pressure, it would probably be a better idea to either put a 3k rpm in the middle spot of d15 plus one in rear exhaust, or 2 3k fans on the d15 and leave the rear spot empty. Anything that doesn't make it out the rear exhaust can get vented out of the top with a fan or two there. Aiming for as little impedance as possible to keep the air moving.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Reading up on airflow / static pressure, it would probably be a better idea to either put a 3k rpm in the middle spot of d15 plus one in rear exhaust, or 2 3k fans on the d15 and leave the rear spot empty. Anything that doesn't make it out the rear exhaust can get vented out of the top with a fan or two there. Aiming for as little impedance as possible to keep the air moving.

I went with:

Rear fan: 3k RPM fan
mid fan: 3k RPM fan
front fan: stock

You may not want the "big" fans in front due to RAM clearance. The stock fan is smaller and easier to adjust upwards/downwards using the clips that come with the IHS.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I emailed noctua about the clips, bought the dark base 700, and an external 5.25 enclosure since there's not a spot in the case.

Won't buy the 140s until I get affirmative message from noctua.

It's been 15 years since I bought a new case for myself. The focus G is a hand me down. From my kid lol

 

[ch33zw1z]

Noctua responded very quickly and offered to send them free of charge as long as I send them proof of purchase and shipping/contact information. Sent that back to them so wait and see. What a difference though, usually tech companies are slow to respond or just ignore me altogether.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Be patient. Those clips may ship from Austria. Could take awhile.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Be patient. Those clips may ship from Austria. Could take awhile.

Agreed, I'll run with what I've got and gotta swap to the new case, far more work than swapping a few fans later

 

[johncena333]

great

 

[ch33zw1z]

A couple updates:

1. Started using AMD Ryzen Master (will note as RM) to monitor the system. It seems to be more accurate than either CPUID HW Mon or CPU-Z for now. It shows a more fluctuating temp and also clock speed. I dunno what's up, CPU-Z just shows a constat 4049 Mhz clock speed, and HW mon is really slow to update temps. I just happened across RM and so far seems pretty good, no plans to OC at this point.

I mean, HW Mon is *pretty* accurate, but sometimes (like at idle) it's ~5C off from RM. HW Mon says idling at 40C while RM reports 34-35C. Sometimes under load HW Mon says 70C but RM says 67C.

2. Noctua is shipping the clips from Tennessee, so I went ahead and ordered two 140mm 3k rpm noctua's.

 

[Zepp]

A couple updates:

1. Started using AMD Ryzen Master (will note as RM) to monitor the system. It seems to be more accurate than either CPUID HW Mon or CPU-Z for now. It shows a more fluctuating temp and also clock speed. I dunno what's up, CPU-Z just shows a constat 4049 Mhz clock speed, and HW mon is really slow to update temps. I just happened across RM and so far seems pretty good, no plans to OC at this point.

I mean, HW Mon is *pretty* accurate, but sometimes (like at idle) it's ~5C off from RM. HW Mon says idling at 40C while RM reports 34-35C. Sometimes under load HW Mon says 70C but RM says 67C.

2. Noctua is shipping the clips from Tennessee, so I went ahead and ordered two 140mm 3k rpm noctua's.

I would use HWinfo over HW monitor, I've never read anything good about HWmon and Ryzen. Ryzen Master will be very accurate. I would use it myself but it still doesn't support any of the APUs for whatever reason.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Another update, as I continue to review information on the interwebs, it seems like if I can keep it around 70C, that's considered just fine. In Step 1 below, the temps were still going 1-4C above 70 at times, not constant, but enough for me to keep my eye on.

Beginning specs:
BIOS 1804, 4x8GB G.Skill DDR4-3000, Asus EZ Tuning Profile set to Optimized

1) Moved to new case, Dark Base 700, inverted motherboard layout.
- Using both included 140mm fans on D15
- Noctua 3k RPM fan in rear
- 2x bequiet fans in front
- No upper exhaust fan yet

This yielded roughly the same temps, setting the Fan CPU and Chassis Fan profiles to Turbo gave me 1-2C drop in temps. Yea, that 3K fan is loud for 1-2C difference in temps, I don't think the noise is worth it. I'm still waiting on the 140mm fan clips to arrive, then I can swap in the 3K fan directly on the hsf as well.

I've been running HB jobs all along, and the temps were pretty consistent. I ran one last one today, took about 3 hours to complete.

2) Updated BIOS to v2006 + set Asus EZ Tuning Profile to Standard
- Earlier I mentioned CPU-Z was unable to see the clock speed changes, the EZ Tuning profile may have had something to do with it.
- Fan Profiles: CPU = Turbo / Chassis = Standard

These changes yielded some improvement. The CPU temps has not exceeded 70C yet on the current HB job, and it's almost identical to the last one I ran before step 2. The time to completion is roughly the same, within minutes.

Here's some other changes I'm seeing now:

1. CPUZ can now report the core speed dynamically
2. Ryzen Master is reporting PPT, TDC, and EDC getting much closer to the limits.
3. Core voltage in CPUZ is now going from ~1.2-1.4
4. Core speed is reporting in RM, and CPUZ as high as 4.25

 

[ch33zw1z]

Received the 140mm fan clips from noctua, installed the second noctua 3k rpm fan in the middle spot, another noticeable difference in temps. So far, HB jobs sit around 59-65C for temps, with a 4k job spiking to 70 here and there.

The 3k fans dont exceed 2k rpms under this fan profile and at that speed are quiet enough to forget that jobs are running.

I'm looking to fill more fan spots in the case as well, to keep the air moving.

So I think I can chalk this up to a good lesson in platform upgrading, sometimes it doesn't go as planned lol.