Question Ryzen 2600 with AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA BIOS?

[VforV]

Hello.

I've just ordered an upgrade for my PC which looks like this:
CPU: Ryzen 2600 BOX
MB: MSI B450M MORTAR MAX
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR4 3000 CL15
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC AC Freezer 34 eSports DUO White

I plan to OC as much as I can the CPU and the RAM, I've seen some tutorials for both with the MSI MB, but so far searching the net I could not find an answer to my question: should I update the MB's BIOS to the latest AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA version?

I know I don't need it for Ryzen 2600, but I've seen on the MSI BIOS page that it brings "Improved memory compatibility" (well, the 2 versions before the last). Link > https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-MORTAR-MAX#down-bios

If someone knows or has done this BIOS update to AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA version on their Ryzen 2000 CPU and is willing to share his knowledge I'd be grateful.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Honestly, for the vast majority of people and cases, attempting to manually OC a Ryzen 3000 series, while avoiding appcrashes and BSODs, is pointless, given how well it's internal clock- and power/voltage-regulation features work. It basically, dynamically through a vast network of sensors on the chip monitoring temperature, power and voltage, etc., overclocks itself. It's a very advanced form of Turbo.

The best that you can do for it, is give it good cooling (a 240mm AIO is decent).

RAM is another issue. Ryzen 3000 series doesn't mind XMP-rated DDR4 up to 3600 or so, it handles it with aplomb in my experience. (I'm running 4x8GB DDR4-3600 GSkill Trident RGB RAM.)

They have a program, "Ryzen DRAM calculator", that can help you tweak your timings, and enhance your performance, at the cost of some manual settings labor in the DRAM configuration pages in your UEFI BIOS.

I think that possibly, given Ryzen 3000-series auto-overclocking, and exceptional DRAM support, that you're basically over-thinking this.

Just get a decent board, with decent VRMs and features that you want/need, and some quality DRAM kits of DDR4-3600 (tighter timings are better, but will cost more), and then just put it together, and be happy.

My two cents. I don't like how the Ryzen turbos. I don't like the voltages and I don't like to see the clocks fluctuate during gaming by more than 100mhz. We didn't buy crappy laptops with their absurb power saving modes and weak processors. You have desktops so you have crank up the party on your CPU. I do like this MSI bios. The keep it simple stupid approach works best.

I don't think B-die is worth it but I have some. The thickest heatsinks I have ever seen on ram. I got mine before B-die was charged a premium. DDR4 3600mhz is the ram you want with good enough timings. Since I have a B350 board I figured 3200mhz would be enough with a Cas of 16 and 1T timing instead of 2T. I also know having 4 Dimms hurts your OCing potential vs. having 2 dimms. Considering ram doesn't need to be OC'd mhz wise but timings may not be able to be tightened with 4 dimms vs. 2 dimms.

 

[VforV]

Honestly, for the vast majority of people and cases, attempting to manually OC a Ryzen 3000 series, while avoiding appcrashes and BSODs, is pointless, given how well it's internal clock- and power/voltage-regulation features work. It basically, dynamically through a vast network of sensors on the chip monitoring temperature, power and voltage, etc., overclocks itself. It's a very advanced form of Turbo.

The best that you can do for it, is give it good cooling (a 240mm AIO is decent).

RAM is another issue. Ryzen 3000 series doesn't mind XMP-rated DDR4 up to 3600 or so, it handles it with aplomb in my experience. (I'm running 4x8GB DDR4-3600 GSkill Trident RGB RAM.)

They have a program, "Ryzen DRAM calculator", that can help you tweak your timings, and enhance your performance, at the cost of some manual settings labor in the DRAM configuration pages in your UEFI BIOS.

I think that possibly, given Ryzen 3000-series auto-overclocking, and exceptional DRAM support, that you're basically over-thinking this.

Just get a decent board, with decent VRMs and features that you want/need, and some quality DRAM kits of DDR4-3600 (tighter timings are better, but will cost more), and then just put it together, and be happy.

Since you responded after my post I assume it was to me...

I have a Ryzen 2600 (not 3600) so it's almost mandatory to OC it. I have like a dozen tutorials on OC-ing my CPU and RAM on my MB prepared already, all I need is my RAM to arrive next week and I'm good to go.

So yeah, since no one said the contrary I'll go CPU OC 1st then RAM.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I didn't want to start a new topic so I'll ask here: is it commanded to start with OC-ing the CPU or the RAM first?

I would say starting with the CPU first (since it will probably take less time to get to the final OC values), but I'm open to explanations if it's the other way around.

You're on a 2600, so go for the CPU first. I don't know what max clocks you should expect from that chip. It's big brother, the 2700x, would usually cap out at around 4.3 GHz with pretty ugly power draw (most static OCs with the 2700x were 4.2 GHz or lower). You should find OCing the 2600 up to 4.0 GHz to be pretty easy though. It shouldn't require too much voltage. Beyond that, who can say?

My two cents. I don't like how the Ryzen turbos.

You can tame that behavior with LLC settings and offsets; that being said, if the board's Game Mode settings work for you, then why rock the boat?

 

[VirtualLarry]

You can tame that behavior with LLC settings and offsets; that being said, if the board's Game Mode settings work for you, then why rock the boat?

If "works for you", includes silent appcrashes, well then. LOL.

@Hans Gruber , try looking into Reliability Monitor. (Hit Winkey+S, start typing "reliability", hit Enter)

Most appcrashes that are otherwise silent, are often logged there.

(Can be illustrative, for overclocks that you "believe are stable". I found that some of my RAM overclocks weren't fully stable that way, some background programs were appcrashing, and restarting, unbeknownst to me.)

 

[VforV]

You're on a 2600, so go for the CPU first. I don't know what max clocks you should expect from that chip. It's big brother, the 2700x, would usually cap out at around 4.3 GHz with pretty ugly power draw (most static OCs with the 2700x were 4.2 GHz or lower). You should find OCing the 2600 up to 4.0 GHz to be pretty easy though. It shouldn't require too much voltage. Beyond that, who can say?

Yeah, I hope for a 4.0 GHz OC, but if I can get 4.1 GHz stable at max 1.375v I would be more than happy. Either way I don't want more than 1.375v whatever the OC is. I'd rather lose 100MHz than degrade my CPU.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If "works for you", includes silent appcrashes, well then. LOL.

He bumped voltage and ended those.

Yeah, I hope for a 4.0 GHz OC, but if I can get 4.1 GHz stable at max 1.375v I would be more than happy. Either way I don't want more than 1.375v whatever the OC is. I'd rather lose 100MHz than degrade my CPU.

100 MHz more might have mattered when 2600s were brand new. Today, that clockspeed bump doesn't mean as much. That's one of the lessons I've learned overclocking on systems that are out-of-date: as your IPC relative to the latest-and-greatest declines, so too does your incentive to fight for more clockspeed.

 

[VirtualLarry]

He bumped voltage and ended those.

I missed that. I guess, if temps are in check, then it's all good then if he isn't getting any crashes or issues.

I'm curious, is he running DDR4-3200, or 3600, b-die or Hynix. (I should go back and re-read, I'm being lazy.)

I know with my 3600 CPU, and DDR4-3600 CAS 18-22-22-xx GSKill Trident RGB RAM, I can't really do much of a static OC at all, I'm not stable even at 4.0Ghz. Then again, I got a very early chip, maybe I should consider selling it off at a slight loss, and buying a more recently-produced one. ("Silicon lotttery" issues.)
Edit: Oh, forgot my point. It was that, sometimes trying to get higher CPU OCs on Ryzen CPUs, fails, because you're running the memory clock "too high". Some rumors suggested that there was some sort of internal power-bypass above a certain memory clock, that would dedicate so much of the chip's power budget to the memory-controller to handle that, and thus wasn't available for the main CPU cores.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I missed that. I guess, if temps are in check, then it's all good then if he isn't getting any crashes or issues.

I'm curious, is he running DDR4-3200, or 3600, b-die or Hynix. (I should go back and re-read, I'm being lazy.)

I know with my 3600 CPU, and DDR4-3600 CAS 18-22-22-xx GSKill Trident RGB RAM, I can't really do much of a static OC at all, I'm not stable even at 4.0Ghz. Then again, I got a very early chip, maybe I should consider selling it off at a slight loss, and buying a more recently-produced one. ("Silicon lotttery" issues.)
Edit: Oh, forgot my point. It was that, sometimes trying to get higher CPU OCs on Ryzen CPUs, fails, because you're running the memory clock "too high". Some rumors suggested that there was some sort of internal power-bypass above a certain memory clock, that would dedicate so much of the chip's power budget to the memory-controller to handle that, and thus wasn't available for the main CPU cores.

I have B-Die rated at 16-16-16 DDR4 3200mhz, it's a 8GB kit and not 16GB so I bought some cheap Team Vulcan Z 3000mhz 16-18-18 ram. Reviews said that the 3000mhz and 3200mhz kits were identical ram. All you have to do is load the XMP profile for 3000mhz and change the memory to 3200mhz while still in XMP settings. So 3200mhz 16-18-18 timings.

I tested the memory @ 3000mhz XMP profile and I got the phantom soft app crashes. No error messages, the game would simply window out like closing a window. Same result whether 3000mhz or 3200mhz. The memory is hynix.

I turned the voltage up to 1.370v from 1.34v. Temps are good. If it runs without app crashes I will dial it back a bit to 1.35-1.36v.

Running the 3600 in stock mode was not to my liking. The vcore was 1.40v and the boost clock was always in 4ghz territory and never touched 4.2ghz.

My OC for my ram is 3200mhz. As long as the Cas latency is 16, I am happy with that. 3600mhz would be nice, but I am on a budget. I saved a few bucks getting the 3000mhz kit which is identical ram to the 3200mhz kit. The MSI bios is excellent for ram and has always run everything at rated speeds and timings with zero issues since the 3rd bios release. This includes OCing ram as well.

I will try LordX suggestion of using offsets when Ocing as well.

Virtual Larry, you may have a good chip but a bad motherboard eg. bios. I was under the impression that ASrock boards kind of suck for AMD with the exception of the Taichi boards. That could be your issue with not being able to get above 4ghz. It could also be the chip.

 

[VirtualLarry]

My OC for my ram is 3200mhz. As long as the Cas latency is 16, I am happy with that. 3600mhz would be nice, but I am on a budget. I saved a few bucks getting the 3000mhz kit which is identical ram to the 3200mhz kit. The MSI bios is excellent for ram and has always run everything at rated speeds and timings with zero issues since the 3rd bios release. This includes OCing ram as well.

I will try LordX suggestion of using offsets when Ocing as well.

Virtual Larry, you may have a good chip but a bad motherboard eg. bios. I was under the impression that ASrock boards kind of suck for AMD with the exception of the Taichi boards. That could be your issue with not being able to get above 4ghz. It could also be the chip.

My comment was more along the lines of, if you're running RAM at 3200, you might have more headroom on the chip for CPU core overclocking.

Also, I'm running an Asus B450-F ROG STRIX Gaming ATX board, not an ASRock. I did used to have ASRock AB350M Pro4 boards, with my 1600 CPUs, but they weren't great. I've switched to Gigabyte and Asus ATX B450 boards.

I do think it's probably my chip, though.

 

[Hans Gruber]

My comment was more along the lines of, if you're running RAM at 3200, you might have more headroom on the chip for CPU core overclocking.

Also, I'm running an Asus B450-F ROG STRIX Gaming ATX board, not an ASRock. I did used to have ASRock AB350M Pro4 boards, with my 1600 CPUs, but they weren't great. I've switched to Gigabyte and Asus ATX B450 boards.

I do think it's probably my chip, though.

I was sitting on the sidelines watching the 3000 series. With the new AGESA changes I figured it was time to get one. The other consideration was waiting for the new 7nm chips to be ironed out.

My mistake, thought you mentioned you had Asrock board.

I am not done with my 3600. I will probably shoot for 4.3 or 4.4ghz. upgrading the ram in the near future is also a possibility.I was planning on getting a 3600mhz kit but keeping my B350 board made 3200mhz an easier option.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I am not done with my 3600. I will probably shoot for 4.3 or 4.4ghz.

That would be really interesting, if you could reach those clocks without crashing or excessive thermals. Maybe you got a 3800X binned-chip, that just happened to have a defective core, so they sold it as a 6C/6T 3600. (Of course, why wouldn't they sell it as a 3600X then? But you get the idea.)

 

[Hans Gruber]

That would be really interesting, if you could reach those clocks without crashing or excessive thermals. Maybe you got a 3800X binned-chip, that just happened to have a defective core, so they sold it as a 6C/6T 3600. (Of course, why wouldn't they sell it as a 3600X then? But you get the idea.)

I was under the impression the best chips would be the 6 core and 12 core 3000 series chips because of the chiplet design.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I will try LordX suggestion of using offsets when Ocing as well.

Actually, fiddling with offsets is for use with default behavior. You can use negative offsets (and low LLC settings) to trick the CPU into undervolting itself. Sort of. The voltages required by the boost algo are a bit too aggressive, so you get overheating and clockspeed restrictions. So the first thing you do is pick the lowest LLC setting possible. Then you test your MT and ST performance (look for benchmark scores rather than reported clockspeeds). Then you try different offsets - some prefer small positive offsets, while others get better results with negative offsets. Rerun your tests with the offsets, noting which offsets help MT and which help ST.

I was under the impression the best chips would be the 6 core and 12 core 3000 series chips because of the chiplet design.

That was what people were guessing before the launch. Hard data seems to suggest that the 3800x is the highest-bin chip of all for MT clocks.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Cinebench R20 score CPU single core 485pts CPU 3774pts max temp on core 66C vcore is 1.360v in CPU-Z max temps are Core Temp app. Max temps were 66C.
I played an hour of BF5 ultra settings 1080p. No app crashes at all.

 

[VforV]

Since this topic is about BIOS I actually have a new question about that: what happens when a BIOS flash (update) fails and there is no dual-BIOS (like most of them from MSI, in this case my B450M Mortar Max) to switch to it as a back-up?

Is the MB dead? Does CMOS reset work? Can I service it?

 

[DrMrLordX]

If you hose the UEFI flash then you brick the board. There are ways to reflash the firmware ROM, and some boards have a feature like QFlash which might save you.

 

[Abwx]

Since this topic is about BIOS I actually have a new question about that: what happens when a BIOS flash (update) fails and there is no dual-BIOS (like most of them from MSI, in this case my B450M Mortar Max) to switch to it as a back-up?

Is the MB dead? Does CMOS reset work? Can I service it?

It can be flashed from an USB port, dunno if the presence of a previous bios is necessary or not.

Update the BIOS without CPU on MSI B450M Mortar motherboard for 3rd Gen AMD RYZEN

July 2019 the 3rd generation AMD Ryzen hit the shelves. Examples are the Ryzen 5 3600, the 3600X and the 3700X. These CPUs are brand spanking new, and so are likely to not be supported by the BIOS …

w01f359.wordpress.com

 

[VirtualLarry]

Most boards without a dual-BIOS have SPI programming headers onboard, they are like the front-panel headers, but smaller and spaced closer together.

(How do you think that they get the initial factory BIOS onto the board?) (They could pre-program the chips, which they used to do with the older style PLCC J-lead square socketed chips, I'm pretty sure, but these are SPI 8-pin flat ICs, that don't that easily lend themselves to be programmed before pick-and-place, they come on reels like the other chips.)

 

[VforV]

Thanks for the info everyone, I hope I won't need it though and everything works well.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Thanks for the info everyone, I hope I won't need it though and everything works well.

You shouldn't, as long as you keep the power on and use the in-UEFI flash tool rather than a tool usable in Windows.

 

[thor23]

Don't feel bad I bricked both bios's on my gigabyte b350 board. You can buy new bios chips for around 20$ i believe. Luckily you seem to have usb flashing ability so you should be ok.

 

[Soulkeeper]

Does this newer ABBA bios increase ram overclocks, compared to older versions, for anyone using 2000 series ryzens ?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Does this newer ABBA bios increase ram overclocks, compared to older versions, for anyone using 2000 series ryzens ?

I would guess no. Pinnacle Ridge should be using pre-Matisse UEFI revisions.

 

[VforV]

Does this newer ABBA bios increase ram overclocks, compared to older versions, for anyone using 2000 series ryzens ?

I just got my CPU+MB+RAM and I'm still on stock bios which is ABB version. I'm still OC-ing my CPU, so when I get to memory OC I'll see how good this BIOS is and if I need to upgrade to ABBA.

I don't have the option to go with an older BIOS since my MB comes with the Ryzen 3000 support out of the box.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I'm using a bios that says AGESA 1.0.0.6 with my 2700x currently, the mem hits some kinda hard wall at around 3000MHz. It was released 2019/01/16
There has been 5 bios updates since this one came out on the website including ABB and ABBA.
I'd love to get 3200 speed mem running, but I have my doubts.
It seems like the IMC on the ryzen 1000/2000 is just limiting me.