*rust rant* rear shocks

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
God darn it!!!! My maxima is never nice to anymore. Last time i had both rear calipers seize up on me. Exhaust has all sorts of parts patched and replaced. Rear quarters are showing rust now.

its a 98 maxima with 130k, been in chicagoland area all its life. I did lowering springs for it about 8 years, rode around for a year and then put on the stock stuff to give the car to my father.

So one of the rear shocks blow, no big deal. I crawl under to see which one and how much work to remove it. Looks like i just need a 17mm for the lower bolt to the knuckle and the 2 x12mm on the tops. Order the parts thinking simple 1-2 hour job.

charge up my air compressor on my IR impact, holy crap! that thing is stuck on there! It won't give. Spray PB blaster and 30 minutes later, i go with the method of blast it on and off repeatly. Doesn't work. I go with all out force to remove it, NOTHING. Pulled out the 3 foot breaker bar NOTHING! I tried the other side and same thing but that bolt has rusted so bad its more like a 18-19mm head now.

3 hours now. I'm done for the day. I'm thinking of trying to go with MAP/P gas torch or take it to the shop. I have the quick strut unit already. I figure i'll get charged 200 bucks for this (an hour each)
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
I had a 98 Maxima. Well, I did until I spun into a wall. Loved that car.

Tomorrow try a cheater on the breaker bar. Just gotta get more leverage.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
3ft breaker bar and it wouldn't budge? Shens.

Slipped, maybe. If so, get some extractors. Or just beat a 12pt socket onto it.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
the other side with the rust forming on the bolt isn't my worry at the moment. The side of the blown shock is on the good side where the bolt is a rusted. I sprayed about 1/4 can of PB blaster. My 1/2 IR impact was rated for like 1000ft/lb of reverse torque. I went HARD on it. It didn't do much. The other side of the bolt is a NUT thats in a little cage that part of the rear axle beam/knuckle. If it was an exposed nut, i would of just zipped that off and hammed off the bolt and get a new one.

I'll see how much time i have over the weekend. I'll most likely give it on more go with or without map/p gas and just throw in the towel. I looked up labor hours and its 1.9 figure more shops around me are in the $100-125 area, its not too bad. Do it once and call it good, car will probably rust out before the next set.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
PB blaster
Wait a few min
heat it up with a torch
Impact/breaker bar
repeat if necessary

Also try heating the nut or what the bolt threads into and not the bolt itself directly.
 

ISAslot

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2001
2,890
108
106
I remember taking the original autolite shocks off the rear of my 68 ford. The nut would just rotate half the shock housing with the nut. I ended up drilling into the shock and screwing the two halves together to get the nut off.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
the other side with the rust forming on the bolt isn't my worry at the moment. The side of the blown shock is on the good side where the bolt is a rusted. I sprayed about 1/4 can of PB blaster. My 1/2 IR impact was rated for like 1000ft/lb of reverse torque. I went HARD on it. It didn't do much. The other side of the bolt is a NUT thats in a little cage that part of the rear axle beam/knuckle. If it was an exposed nut, i would of just zipped that off and hammed off the bolt and get a new one.

I'll see how much time i have over the weekend. I'll most likely give it on more go with or without map/p gas and just throw in the towel. I looked up labor hours and its 1.9 figure more shops around me are in the $100-125 area, its not too bad. Do it once and call it good, car will probably rust out before the next set.

IR 2135 (1/2" 'titanium' model), I gather?

The 1000ftlb claim is silliness. I have a 2131, which is a similar composite gun (little less torque, little less price). Stuff at more than 200ftlbs just isn't likely to come loose. Which is to say, the occasional axle nut or lugnuts that have been super-duper gorilla-torqued. Anything it can't do gets a 3ft bar with little issue.

Rusty stuff can be a sonofabitch, though. Just doesn't make sense on a shock bolt...I would expect that you would round the head or just outright break it with a bar. Good thing you noted that you were sure you were on the 'meant to turn' end, or else I would've asked if you were trying to turn the insert welded to the A-arm (or axle beam; however that car's set up).

...turning it the right way? Heh.

Are you using extensions or a wobble on your impact? Anything other than a straight socket decreases torque by a large margin. Bar should still get it, though. I'd second 'cheater bar' if the socket's not slipping. Floorjack handle usually works good.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,151
635
126
Angle grinder + cutoff wheel. I've use heat and a reciprocating saw before too. Whatever it takes :)
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Ugh, I remember replacing all four corners on my 89 MR2. This was back in 2004. Yeah, suspension nuts are a royal PITA to remove. The cheater bar+PB blaster was what did the trick for me, but it was NOT pleasant. Lots of skinned knuckles and swearing.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
This is side-tracking a bit, but am I reading this wrong or are you really planning to replace only one shock?

ZV

No my original plan was to replace both rears as I've done both fronts last year. But if worst comes to worst I would like to just do the blown one for now.

I'm using just a shallow 1/2 in socket on my 3ft breaker bar in the right direction. I was careful trying not to snap that bolt or head off.
 

ino uno soweno

Senior member
Jun 7, 2013
377
0
41
God darn it!!!! My maxima is never nice to anymore. Last time i had both rear calipers seize up on me. Exhaust has all sorts of parts patched and replaced. Rear quarters are showing rust now.

its a 98 maxima with 130k, been in chicagoland area all its life. I did lowering springs for it about 8 years, rode around for a year and then put on the stock stuff to give the car to my father.

So one of the rear shocks blow, no big deal. I crawl under to see which one and how much work to remove it. Looks like i just need a 17mm for the lower bolt to the knuckle and the 2 x12mm on the tops. Order the parts thinking simple 1-2 hour job.

charge up my air compressor on my IR impact, holy crap! that thing is stuck on there! It won't give. Spray PB blaster and 30 minutes later, i go with the method of blast it on and off repeatly. Doesn't work. I go with all out force to remove it, NOTHING. Pulled out the 3 foot breaker bar NOTHING! I tried the other side and same thing but that bolt has rusted so bad its more like a 18-19mm head now.

3 hours now. I'm done for the day. I'm thinking of trying to go with MAP/P gas torch or take it to the shop. I have the quick strut unit already. I figure i'll get charged 200 bucks for this (an hour each)

Sorry, I know it looks like i am the new stalker, but, I think I can make this one short, and be of help, I hope so anyway,

I would tear a strip of cloth say 2 and 1/2" wide, 6" long, and carefully wrap it around the nut, then I would tie the cloth loosely but firmly with some thin copper wire, twist the knotted ends, one around the nut, one around the protruding bolt end, sort of a sock, making a hat that slips on and off easy, Also one on the other shock bolt if it is rusty too, then place a plastic bucket directly under that, or them,

Find a heat source like hot solder gun, or house hold heater with not fan, or heat lamp, I only want to hold the heat source close to warm up the sock,

Then I would check my laundry and bathroom, for drain cleaner, ( Caustic Soda ) buy it at the local shop, 1/4 cup of cool water, and a 1/2 spoon of caustic, gently mix with s/s spoon and drip feed from the spoon onto sock until the sock is saturated, and slowly dripping into the bucket, /s

Use the heat source ( not oxy, or flame heat ) to heat warm the bolt from the other end, that will warm the cold water and the caustic soaked in the sock will begin reacting, and you will have a very warm caustic soda bath,

Let it sit while adding an occasional drop of cold caustic, slow drip is good, hot sock is good too, but don’t touch the soaked sock, with bare hands,

Give 30 mins, and carefully pull the sock back with pliers and check all rust, grease, crap previously on there has been burnt, if the hole area around the nut area under the sock has turned blackish, one might assume the fully rusted nut surface at the back of the nut has almost dissolved and at the protruding bolt end, the reacting caustic solution has saturated at least half along the bolt inside the nut, dissolving the rust as it goes,

Replace sock, and drip feed for another hour, remove sock, do not try to wire brush clean any caustic soda saturated black stuff, one tiny bit on your skin, will absorb onto skin, and burn with increasing bit until you cannot bear it, and you will run for the nearest clean or dirty water to wash it off, imagine if a bit flicks in your eye,

Once you are ready, remove sock, and stand the little hat in plastic bucket, just in case you need it again, ,

Move the bucket and the remaining cold caustic cup and spoon out of the way, then I would suggest you use a 17mm x 19mm solid and long ring spanner, sidchrome or some quality tool metal, that fitted the nut properly, pointing the other end (19mm) of the ring spanner down under the car, pointing at the ground, then place my foot on and around the centre of the spanner, apply pressure so the spanner could not bounce off, and while using one hand to hold onto the under body of the car to steady myself, with my other hand I would take a 2-3 foot long swing at the 19mm end of the spanner. On the horizontal plain, under the car,

With 10" long length of 4" x 2" hard wood, I would hit so hard that if I held pressure on it with my hand, the shock wave caused would hurt my hand, but not enough to hurt my booted foot, which is not enough to break the ring spanner,
I would be surprised if it did not crack and move first time, and in shock if I have to give 4 swings, if it is not cracked by then I will do the sock soaked caustic thing again,
The nut could need to be removed by adjusting the spanner quickly with one hand and tapping with the weight of the wood with the other hand, until it was nearly screwed off, it is only tight cause the thread and bolt thread is packed tight with wet dissolved rust dust, which grinds to powder as it unscrews,
Wash the bolt clean with a wet oily rag, gently, it comes off easy, soak nut and washers in clean water, dry and oil them, they will show visible oxidation quickly,
If you want to paint the part or nut after you rinse off the spent caustic soda ash, and let dry, paint them quickly, as the caustic cleans metal so well, it will quickly start showing signs of oxidization,
The left over caustic in the cup that was keep cold, can be placed in a plastic cup or container, small, with a tight lid, along with a hand full of rusty nuts and bolts, and place it in the hot sun, every hour give it a shake, a few hours later , shake well and open and check all steel is clean of all oxidation removed, flush under tap, dry with hairdryer, dust off with clean rag, and paint with etch primer, or 2 pack,
Please use gloves and safety clothing, full face mask, and have a hose with fresh water ready, Hope that helps,
I have used caustic wraps on 4” and 8” nuts used in heavy earth moving, rusty nuts, 8” hyd ram lock nuts, once soaked in caustic if they need it, , I use a 12” – 18” long flogging spanner, and a large sledge hammer, to remove and tighten big nuts, and at times I have just flame cut a flogging spanner out of 5/8” or 1” plate, in the bush miles from anywhere, small generator for die and angle grinders, blar blar, cheaper than buying a new factory spanner,
Also while I have you here crying because I will never shut up, I have got to mention I have seen heaps of great projects on this forum, with heaps of dirty car parts, that have to be cleaned, partly rusty suspension arms, stripped engine blocks, half thick coating of engine paint, half rusty thick coating, the lot.
I suggest you consider this approach and method,
Say a four cylinder engine block just stripped down, filthy with baked oil stains , rusty patches the lot, and or rusty shock bracket , but a good thick plastic tube with good clip on plastic lid,
Place the tub where it will be safe and have good ventilation and good prolonged sunlight, for days,
Fill the tube with water to cover the parts and add 6 spoons of caustic soda, and close it up, even drill holes in each corner and bolt the lid on if you think the kids or animals will come near it, let it heat up a bit, later in the day check to see the caustic solution is active and moving around the tub, lift out parts with long hook and inspect, replace lid, repeat check each day, until caustic is spent into harmless dirty water soda ash, and parts are clean, hose with garden, if you find any bit rust or paint, or caked rust in a water gallery, or caked carbon in a exhaust port or manifold, let it dry and back in the caustic tube until it falls off,
And when it is super clean using the garden hose, heat dry it asap, run your finger over it to ensure not grease film and dry, paint what you have to, or coat with half petrol half oil, paint brush or spray bottle,
Roll up and store in clean cloth ready to be refitted, or delivered to machine shop, clean as,
Sorry too long, but I can’t share in under 30 words,
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Move the bucket and the remaining cold caustic cup and spoon out of the way, then I would suggest you use a 17mm x 19mm solid and long ring spanner, sidchrome or some quality tool metal, that fitted the nut properly, pointing the other end (19mm) of the ring spanner down under the car, pointing at the ground, then place my foot on and around the centre of the spanner, apply pressure so the spanner could not bounce off, and while using one hand to hold onto the under body of the car to steady myself, with my other hand I would take a 2-3 foot long swing at the 19mm end of the spanner. On the horizontal plain, under the car,

With 10" long length of 4" x 2" hard wood, I would hit so hard that if I held pressure on it with my hand, the shock wave caused would hurt my hand, but not enough to hurt my booted foot, which is not enough to break the ring spanner,

Or, you know, use the impact wrench the OP already pointed out he has. That would be much, much, much safer than laying on the ground, holding part of a wrench with your foot, and swinging a 2x4 around. The impact wrench will also be able to apply a hell of a lot more torque.

ZV
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
I hate rust so much.
This is why I Krown and wash my car religiously.
Even though I love the 4th generation Maxima dearly (my favorite generation ever) they are rust prone especially if not taken care of.

I would totally buy one to drive as a DD but they're almost non existent up here anymore, claimed by rust.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
Heat, penetrating oil, impact, cheater. Repeat.
Heat, penetrating oil, impact, cheater. Repeat.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
Question.... Do other brands rust out this bad? Nissans and hondas are all I normally work on and then they get around 8-10 years old here around Chicago. A lot of things will fight up. I often wondered how the German/Americans/koreans cars hold up.

My mother 96 camry isn't as bad as the 98 maxima. My 05 Infiniti shows signs of bolts fighting me already.
 

ino uno soweno

Senior member
Jun 7, 2013
377
0
41
Yes Sir, Caustic Soda, also called Sodium Hydroxide, and even Lye,
If you take say a head or engine block for reconditioning, first they will charge you for a chemical bath, and that gets right into the rust caked inside the cooling galleries inside the block and head, caked up oil in the oil galleries too, which is most probably a hot caustic soda bath, dissolves paint, grease and especially rust, eats every little bit of rust, caustic and corrosive, that is a household product, as well as commercial ,
Like professional painters use “ deoxidine rust converter, to just wipe surface rust off bare metal before applying any paint, the rust is quickly dissolved, caustic and deoxidine are different chemicals, but both are rust converters,
Please consider, the nut is too badly rusted on, “ then “ completely eliminate all the affects of all the rust, and you are left a %98 normal shock bolt, the rust affect is just eliminated from the equation, there is no bond between rusted surfaces, or threads,
And a normal shock bolt on any normal car that is not in a area that is prone to rust quickly , all most of us would only need is a 17mm x 19mm med to large length ring spanner, if that was all the tools you had handy,
Another perspective could be that the bolt is too thick with paint, ( not rust no rust all, ) so you paint strip the nut and protruding bolt shank, paint starts bubbling, when it is finished, you wash and wipe it off with wet rag,
I was at the shops today and picked up some caustic, I will find some rusty bits or bolts, and take pictures, before , during , after, let you know when they are finished,
Hope that helps,
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
while the Caustic Soda was interesting. I ended up not needing it.

I came over today with thoughts of just spraying it down some more and giving it a go with the breaker bar since my compressor isn't there. He busts out with a new map/p torch. So then i sprayed it down with more PB blaster, got some food to eat. Came back and lit up the PB blaster ( i knew it was going to happen, kinda did it for fun because i didn't think this bolt was going to give). Warmed up the bolt, i didn't get it any where close to cherry red ( not even sure MAP gas can get that hot) but i hit the head with a hammer a could of times and used the breaker bar, slowly but surely it was giving in. But it did fight me, a 1/2 in ratchet would of been nice. Took me 20 minutes but i got off the blown side.

I'll come back tomorrow with a 12pt set to try and hammer on a socket.


I hate rust!!!!

no one answered my question, I know all cars rust here in the mid-west with the salt we lay down but is this more prone to nissans/hondas. I'm judging by surface rust i see on the rear quarters. You dont see it much on a E36 bmw or a benz from 98. Ive seem some americans cars show some rust but on nissans and hondas a lot of those rear quarters on almost GONE. The 98 maxima isn't bad but the whole underside from the radiator support and rear suspension is a rusty shame.
 

ino uno soweno

Senior member
Jun 7, 2013
377
0
41
What is your current options for rust as you describe, now,:)

Can you take it somewhere, what would they do, and how much money,

:confused:
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Wow, what a bitch road salt is, how is the frame on the car? is it still safe?. Way back in 1975 I noticed a co-worker pull in to work with a rope tied to the frame that led into the cabin, I asked what that was for, the frame on his Torino had rusted through right near the drivers door so he literally held the frame together with the rope wrapped around his left arm/shoulder (he was a big dude) while driving. He told me he only needed to do it for one week more, then he would have enough $$ for the down payment on a new car, I asked him how in the hell he could do it, he replied, "I can handle it but potholes are a bitch"... :eek:
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
Frame isn't horrible. Front radiator support is showing signs of rusting. This vintage doesn't hold well here.

I paid the shop to get the other bolt off and replace it with a good one. Ran me $150 in labor. I didn't have too much spare time.
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
126
Frame isn't horrible. Front radiator support is showing signs of rusting. This vintage doesn't hold well here.

I paid the shop to get the other bolt off and replace it with a good one. Ran me $150 in labor. I didn't have too much spare time.
What? $150 for a bolt removal? I'd went to harbor freight and bought a 3/4 dr earthquake impact. Actually I've never come across a nut my 1/2 earthquake impact couldn't spin off.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Edit, let me open with: know that feel bro.

Heat, penetrating oil, impact, cheater. Repeat.
Heat, penetrating oil, impact, cheater. Repeat.

This.

I use a propane torch, ATF+Acetone (or Boeshield), Nitrocat impact gun (~1400lb-ft torque), and then my 1/2in breaker bar with either my jack handle as a cheater bar or a 4lb engineering hammer. I much prefer using a hammer on the breaker bar. A cheater makes it easy to just snap bolt heads off, and that's 10x worse than a stuck bolt.

Don't forget the ability to hammer on a slightly downsized 6-pt socket.

This combination has yet to fail me with older cars than yours from New England.

Some times it takes several heating and cooling cycles (with the torch and penetrating oil to quench it). Make sure to quench the part that needs to shrink, the bolt shank/threads usually.
 
Last edited:

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
IR 2135 (1/2" 'titanium' model), I gather?

The 1000ftlb claim is silliness. I have a 2131, which is a similar composite gun (little less torque, little less price). Stuff at more than 200ftlbs just isn't likely to come loose. Which is to say, the occasional axle nut or lugnuts that have been super-duper gorilla-torqued. Anything it can't do gets a 3ft bar with little issue.

Rusty stuff can be a sonofabitch, though. Just doesn't make sense on a shock bolt...I would expect that you would round the head or just outright break it with a bar. Good thing you noted that you were sure you were on the 'meant to turn' end, or else I would've asked if you were trying to turn the insert welded to the A-arm (or axle beam; however that car's set up).

...turning it the right way? Heh.

Are you using extensions or a wobble on your impact? Anything other than a straight socket decreases torque by a large margin. Bar should still get it, though. I'd second 'cheater bar' if the socket's not slipping. Floorjack handle usually works good.

Too funny. I had to beat out my floor jack handle the other day because it was elongated from using it as a cheater. Figured I was the only one who did that..