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Russia's Medvedev promises 'crueler' measures

Sinsear

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Story Here

"The measures to fight terrorism should be expanded, they should be more effective, more harsh, more cruel, if you please," he told federal and local officials in a televised meeting.
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Someone give this man a medal.
 
What's the obvious solution when the government promises security in exchange for rights, then doesn't deliver? For Russians it's apparently even fewer rights.
 
Medal for what? He hasn't accomplished anything.
I am all for going after terrorists, but if they are not selective, they are going to have more pissed off Chechens ready to join extremist groups and/or fight for independence.
It's eye for an eye culture over there. Someone kills your kin, it's a point of family honor to avenge it, at any cost. They is a reason these women are called black widows.
More cruelty in general is not going to solve this problem, just the opposite.
How about cleaning up corruption and creating some economic opportunities in the region so they actually don't want to secede and have jobs instead?
 
Sinsear said:
Story Here




Someone give this man a medal.
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Russia had it coming. Russia has been protecting Syria and Iran for ages. It hold-hands with states that sponsor terror, and then cries when those terrors attack Russian cities.

The pointless war in Chechnya only exacerbated the situation. Russia killed what...50,000 in the last 4 or 5 years?

Russia knows how to deal with its terrorist problem. It doesn't need anyones help when it has a free pass to carpet bomb Grozny with impunity.

Unlike some states...which are expected to "negotiate" and engage in "peace process" to win the affection of terrorists.
 
I'm sure that'll work. How about segregating the people from the terrorists by actually making that region more hospitable to the people who live there instead of the Russian military that seeks to exploit misery and sorrow and their jihadist enemies?
 
dainthomas said:
What's the obvious solution when the government promises security in exchange for rights, then doesn't deliver? For Russians it's apparently even fewer rights.
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Russians don't want rights. They are a deeply superstitious people who have a pervasive sense of fatalism, and a perpetual longing for a tyrant.

The most dangerous aspect of popular American thought on humanity and liberty is that all humans share the American vision of the human as a rugged individual, longing to be free. This is a wonderful heritage that was brought to this land, but to think that it is somehow innate to all of humanity does violence to the history which birthed the great ideas that created our freedoms in the first place. The desire for freedom is available to all humans, and that is why there are always rogue individualists who pop up everywhere from time to time. However the cultural soil required for the ideas of liberty to take hold and spread into the common ethos is not common to all of humanity. There are cultures which are broadly toxic to liberty. Do not fool yourself into thinking that it is the Russian dictator who enslaves the Russians. It is the Russian people who create the dictator.
 
Aside from giving conservatives hardons, tough talk like this accomplishes pretty much nothing.
 
Mani said:
Aside from giving conservatives hardons, tough talk like this accomplishes pretty much nothing.
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It's not tough talk in the way I think you took it to be. If it's tough talk, it's tough talk against the simplistic view of humanity held by self-described conservatives. I am deeply frustrated by many of them who believe that everybody in the world desires a life free from a powerful and controlling government. It is simply untrue. My underlying thesis is totally "liberal" in its thrust: that the concepts and myths upon which society are built are culturally determined. (Yes, that means they are not *gasp* "self-evident. At least not commonly.) That's enough to be booed off a stage by most "conservatives", or worse.
 
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nonlnear said:
It's not tough talk in the way I think you took it to be. If it's tough talk, it's tough talk against the simplistic view of humanity held by self-described conservatives. I am deeply frustrated by many of them who believe that everybody in the world desires a life free from a powerful and controlling government. It is simply untrue. My underlying thesis is totally "liberal" in its thrust: that the concepts and myths upon which society are built are culturally determined. (Yes, that means they are not *gasp* "self-evident. At least not commonly.) That's enough to be booed off a stage by most "conservatives", or worse.
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Hmm, the slaves sure seemed to want to be free, despite the best efforts of plantation owners to make them totally reliant on their masters.

No doubt you can break the human spirit if you try hard enough, but that doesn't make it the natural state.
 
Blackjack200 said:
Hmm, the slaves sure seemed to want to be free, despite the best efforts of plantation owners to make them totally reliant on their masters.

No doubt you can break the human spirit if you try hard enough, but that doesn't make it the natural state.
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I know it's un-PC to say but there were many content slaves. Granted there were many MANY miserable ones, but the system of antebellum slavery was not designed to create contentment among the slaves in any systemic way. If the culture and institutions had been consciously designed with the intent of building more pervasive codependence into the slaves' worldview (as the Russian state is), then things might have been even worse - despite an improved opinion among the slaves of their slave status.
 
Fear No Evil said:
Indeed. Bowing is much more effective and strikes fear into your enemies.
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The facepalm here is just astounding.

You do realize we're the enemies you speak of are willingly strapping explosives to themselves and going "boom"? What the fuck are you gonna scare them with??? Macho macho idiocy doesn't work when the other party is willing to take it further than you are.

Seriously no one here has ever seen the movie Apocalypse Now? It deals with this very topic.
 
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IHateViruses said:
Unlike some states...which are expected to "negotiate" and engage in "peace process" to win the affection of terrorists.
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After first chechen war, they had de facto independence. They had freedom, and what did they do with it? crime out the ass, and within two years they implemented sharia law. Next they thought they'd hop over to the neighbouring republic and stir up some shit there too. They had their chance at peace, and decided against it. If they wouldn't have gone into dagestan I think russia would have let them be.
 
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