HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
they still have the laminated stock ones for $99.99 o.0 too bad i already spent money on other stuff.....oh well next paycheck =]
they still have the laminated stock ones for $99.99 o.0 too bad i already spent money on other stuff.....oh well next paycheck =]
Yeah, the Mosin Nagants are fun guns. Very cheap. 7.62x54R Ammo is also quite cheap and readily available by the caseload. I've got 3x 91/30's (one with sniper markings, 2 with MO double date codes), 1x M38, and 1x M44 (laminated stock).
Remington and Westinghouse made them for the Tsarist Russian army, not the Reds (USSR). They shipped some to Russia before the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. But then Remington had some left over after the Revolution, and they couldn't ship them to Russia for political reasons, so they sold them on the US market as sporterized rifles with lighter stocks and other distinguishing features. Those are pretty rare and can reach $400-$500. Remington and Westinghouse-made rifles that were shipped to Russia are even rarer.
The other pricey M-N's are Finnish-made, most commonly M39's. Finland was owned by Russia in the early part of the 20th century, and they used the same Mosin-Nagant rifles that the Russians had been using since 1891 (which is where the model 91/30 comes from -- in 1930, the design was changed, and older 1891's were updated to the new specs). The M39's were typically older receivers that were rebarreled with Tikka or Sako barrels, and had beefer stocks put on them. They are well renowned for their accuracy.
If you have a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in your area, they often have M91/30's for sale in the $100 range (no separate transfer fee necessary). I have bought all of my Mosin-Nagant's from a local surplus dealer. Several years ago, they had huge selections, and I was able to dig through and find the rarities such as the sniper-marked and MO-marked versions.
The majority of Mosin-Nagants that you find cheap will be war-year models (1940-1944) and, well, the quality just isn't always there. They pumped out nearly 40 million of those things over ~70 years of production, but a LOT of that production happened in the years slightly before, during, and after WWII (say, 1938-1948).
7.62x54r.net is a wonderful resource. These are fun guns to collect and shoot. Not to mention great value at usually around $100 per rifle, accessories included. Mostly, I just collect them. The history is just so much fun to think about. I've also got a 1938 German K98k (so I have both the rifles used by the enemy snipers in Enemy at the Gates), a 1942 M1 Garand, and a 1917 SMLE No. 1 Mk. 3. So I've got the major powers of WWII pretty well covered (I'm missing Italian and Japanese WWII rifles, but, well, who really cares about Italy; and the War in the Pacific was more of a naval war than a ground war -- not to say I wouldn't like to own those rifles, but availability of both rifles and ammo is pretty low compared with the Soviet, German, US and British WWII rifles).
Remington and Westinghouse made them for the Tsarist Russian army, not the Reds (USSR). They shipped some to Russia before the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. But then Remington had some left over after the Revolution, and they couldn't ship them to Russia for political reasons, so they sold them on the US market as sporterized rifles with lighter stocks and other distinguishing features. Those are pretty rare and can reach $400-$500. Remington and Westinghouse-made rifles that were shipped to Russia are even rarer.
The other pricey M-N's are Finnish-made, most commonly M39's. Finland was owned by Russia in the early part of the 20th century, and they used the same Mosin-Nagant rifles that the Russians had been using since 1891 (which is where the model 91/30 comes from -- in 1930, the design was changed, and older 1891's were updated to the new specs). The M39's were typically older receivers that were rebarreled with Tikka or Sako barrels, and had beefer stocks put on them. They are well renowned for their accuracy.
If you have a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in your area, they often have M91/30's for sale in the $100 range (no separate transfer fee necessary). I have bought all of my Mosin-Nagant's from a local surplus dealer. Several years ago, they had huge selections, and I was able to dig through and find the rarities such as the sniper-marked and MO-marked versions.
The majority of Mosin-Nagants that you find cheap will be war-year models (1940-1944) and, well, the quality just isn't always there. They pumped out nearly 40 million of those things over ~70 years of production, but a LOT of that production happened in the years slightly before, during, and after WWII (say, 1938-1948).
7.62x54r.net is a wonderful resource. These are fun guns to collect and shoot. Not to mention great value at usually around $100 per rifle, accessories included. Mostly, I just collect them. The history is just so much fun to think about. I've also got a 1938 German K98k (so I have both the rifles used by the enemy snipers in Enemy at the Gates), a 1942 M1 Garand, and a 1917 SMLE No. 1 Mk. 3. So I've got the major powers of WWII pretty well covered (I'm missing Italian and Japanese WWII rifles, but, well, who really cares about Italy; and the War in the Pacific was more of a naval war than a ground war -- not to say I wouldn't like to own those rifles, but availability of both rifles and ammo is pretty low compared with the Soviet, German, US and British WWII rifles).
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
if you do go to big 5 as suggested..make sure you thoroughly check the rifle for rust...the one i saw at big 5 was rusted to crap on the inside of the barrel.
Good point... I have never actually looked at Big 5's guns, but I have seen their ads in a few newspapers and they usually have some kind of Mosin-Nagant advertised for pretty cheap. Rust in the barrel seems odd to me though; usually these surplus Russian/Soviet guns are so covered in cosmoline that it's hard to imagine them getting too rusty. Each of my M-N's has required a good evening of cleaning to get the cosmo out of all the nooks and crannies
But yes, you should always check for rust and other obvious signs of wear/deterioration before purchasing any used or surplus firearm. A bore light helps a lot. With a Mosin-Nagant, I would:
1) Check for all matching numbers. There should be 4 serial numbers on most Mosin-Nagant rifles: A) Barrel (top of the rifle, right in front of the receiver); B) Side of bolt, near the cocking handle; C) Bottom of the magazine floorplate (bottom side of the rifle); D) Top of the metal buttplate. The receiver will have the "full" serial number (usually 2 Cyrillic characters + 4 digits for war-era rifles, but earlier rifles might have just 5 or 6 digits) but the rest are usually stamped with just the digits, or sometimes just the last 3 digits. Most of the Soviet M-N's that I've seen have had all matching serial numbers -- don't listen to people who say that an all-numbers matching M44 or M91/30 is rare and valuable. A mismatched buttplate or magazine, or a magazine with a scratched out old serial number and a new matching one stamped next to it, is not uncommon, and if the rifle is in good shape otherwise then it would not keep me from buying it. Bolt and receiver should match.
2) Check out the condition of the exterior of the rifle. Wood should be nice and matching in tone between the upper handguard and the rest of the furniture. Often there will be peeling or bubbling sections of shellac on parts of the wood, especially near the front of the handguards. How much this bothers you is up to you. The wood should not show any cracks -- if there are any, this is cause for a price reduction. Look for rust on all visible metal parts. Check the rear sight for smooth movement, and flip it up to check the underside for rust. In modern imports there will almost always be a refurb mark (a box with a diagonal line through it) stamped on top of the barrel and on the side of the buttstock, which means that it was arsenal refurbished, probably sometime in the 50's or 60's. If you find one without a refurb mark, it is more valuable. Also there will be a place where the US importer has stamped their name and info, plus a new serial number (because Cyrillic letters aren't valid for US serial numbers). Often this is on the left side of the receiver. Sometimes it will be on the underside of the front of the barrel, which is considered more desireable because it is mostly hidden. This is required by law for new imports and is just something that collectors have to deal with, but there are a few "GI bringback" rifles from Korea/Vietnam/etc., that do not have the import marks. These are very rare!
3) Take out the bolt. Open the bolt and pull it back all the way toward the rear; tilt the rifle so that the muzzle is pointed upward, and pull the trigger. This will let the bolt fall out of the rear of the receiver. Examine all sides of the bolt, including the front (bolt face) around the firing pin. There will likely be a certain amount of cosmoline (thick brown grease) in the crevices, and maybe some not in the crevices. This will wipe right off and was used to protect the rifle from corrosion while in storage. (You should probably do a full take-down and cleaning of any remaining cosmoline before firing the gun. There are good instructions on M-N disassembly here. You probably do not have to be as thorough as they are -- removing the magazine, and removing the barreled receiver from the stock ought to be enough to get everything clean, although you should take the bolt completely apart and clean everything in it. Bolt disassembly instructions here -- no need to take out the extractor.)
4) Examine the inside of the receiver and the barrel. Shine your bore light down the barrel and check for rust or excessive wear/pitting. You should be able to clearly see the lands and grooves all the way down the barrel. On a long barrel like a 91/30, you should look from both ends of the barrel. Often during refurbishment the front of the barrel will be counter-bored -- the front end of the rifling had become worn, so they drilled out the front part of the barrel an inch or two so that there would be clean rifling as the bullet leaves the barrel. Fairly common, especially on 91/30's, but un-counter-bored is more original and more valued.
5) Open the magazine (there is a small latch on the bottom of the magazine floorplate) and swing it open. Check for rust and make sure that the follower and leaf spring are in good operating condition and allow a full range of motion and go back to the top on their own.
6) Put the bolt back in the receiver (will require to press the trigger down again) and close it on the chamber. Pull the trigger and listen for the firing pin to release. Open the bolt (it should be harder to open this time, because opening the bolt re-cocks the firing pin -- but it should not be so hard that you have to bang on it or otherwise resort to unusual force in order to open).
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
big 5's policy is to not remove the trigger locks on their guns in store, even though they're locked up on a rack. they say "its against the law" to remove the trigger lock, and in CO there is no trigger lock law for retailers. so you cannot take out the bolt and they also dont let you do any sort of disassembly to the gun in anyway. basically they let you pick up the gun, work the bolt a little, and check the sights. =\
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30355485&postcount=35
post from my thread not too long ago about the mosin's advertised at big5. i had a terrible shopping experience regarding firearms there. we decided the oily stuff was cosmoline, but there were also some pretty gnarly rust pits
so basically, everywhere else but big 5, this guy has some pretty good advice =D
Well, that's a pretty BS policy, but you can still get a decent look at the top half of the bolt and the bolt face itself while it's in the rifle; but it will make it harder to see down the barrel, and you won't be able to see the inside of the back part of the receiver. It's a crapshoot, but if the rest of the rifle looks good, I might chance it if it's a desireable M-N (I won't buy any more M-N's without them being somehow rare or desireable.)
I would NOT leave the store without a test dry-fire, though. You never know what you're getting when it's a used/surplus firearm. Although I guess it also depends on the store's return policies.
I would NOT leave the store without a test dry-fire, though. You never know what you're getting when it's a used/surplus firearm. Although I guess it also depends on the store's return policies.
I don't suppose someone knows a way to see if I could get one in my area? All the pawn shops around here just carry handguns/rifles/shotguns. Don't deal with those types.
I know you can buy online, but would rather just pick one up so i can check it out before i buy.
I know you can buy online, but would rather just pick one up so i can check it out before i buy.
edro
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2002
- 24,326
- 68
- 91
Search for gun shows in your area.
You can get these from a gun show for $90-120 almost nationwide.
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
yellowpages?
galleryofguns.com will have a good list of nearby ffl dealer and you can give them a call see if they carry them in stock
- Feb 20, 2002
- 82
- 0
- 66
You're not getting off this easy, guys. The same rifle, but with a nice laminated stock for $99.95
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=225
AV1611 out......
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=225
AV1611 out......
Last edited:
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
You're not getting off this easy, guys. The same rifle, but with a nice laminated stock for $99.95
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=225
AV1611 out......
but i already said that =[
gorcorps
aka Brandon
- Jul 18, 2004
- 30,739
- 454
- 126
Yeah, you did. The original gun and price was just at the breaking point of a knee-jerk gun purchase for me. $100 is quite far into the "think it through" area, and it's not doing well.
- Feb 20, 2002
- 82
- 0
- 66
You know you want to.
AV1611 out....
Yeah, you did. The original gun and price was just at the breaking point of a knee-jerk gun purchase for me. $100 is quite far into the "think it through" area, and it's not doing well.
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
you cant even order one unless you first send in your c&r or ffl. and cant even buy ammo unless you email your id over. find a lgs and have them order you one. or buy one off someone locally for 50 bucks =]
The best place to get these are gun shows. You can buy them + ammo at them. Plus you can look at them to see which one you want. I got one in October in my area i'm going to go pick up on.
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