Russia no longer free

[Kibbo]

Linky

Personally, I think that Putin is a scary bastard.

 

[SuperTool]

So basically if people aren't revolting in the streets like Georgia and Ukraine, it's not free. Have you thought that maybe it's as free as the Russians want it to be.
For some reason "normal" "freedom" doesn't work in Russia. It's always either dictatorship or anarchy.

 

[Kibbo]

Personally, I think that political rights and civil liberties are universal "goods".

Did you click the link? Russia has gone backward from where they were under Yeltsin. Putin, under the cover of "elections," is basically appointing provincial governors and city mayors. He has coopted many of the opposition parties in the Duma. Many of them are now also led by former KGB officers.

Take the Yukos affair. Almost every major resource company in Russia is the result of a corrupt deal that happened during the transistion in the early '90s. The CEO of Yukos opposed Putin's policies. A couple of years later, the state owns Yukos. Putin has coopted the justice system.

Russia's freedoms are moving backwards, from where they were a decade ago.

Your statement that "It's always either dictatorship or anarchy" was true of the entire planet 300 yrs ago.

If the people wanted it so much, then Putin wouldn't have to mess around with the electoral system to keep himself and his cronies in power.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Personally, I think that political rights and civil liberties are universal "goods".

Did you click the link? Russia has gone backward from where they were under Yeltsin.

Not really. It was a free for all corruption under Yeltzin. People were starving, while a few oligarchs controlled the whole wealth of the country they didn't work to build

Putin, under the cover of "elections," is basically appointing provincial governors and city mayors. He has coopted many of the opposition parties in the Duma. Many of them are now also led by former KGB officers.

That is a mistake on Putin's part. I think he is gonna rub a lot of people the wrong way which will create problems in the regions.

Take the Yukos affair. Almost every major resource company in Russia is the result of a corrupt deal that happened during the transistion in the early '90s. The CEO of Yukos opposed Putin's policies. A couple of years later, the state owns Yukos. Putin has coopted the justice system.

Easy come easy go. Khodorkovsky got Yukos from the state for a pittance at a rigged auction. The irony of the state getting it back from Khodorkovsy at a rigged auction is quite interesting. Putin was partially right in not wanting powerful oligarchs to use money to gain influence in political process as they did in the 90s.

Russia's freedoms are moving backwards, from where they were a decade ago.
Your statement that "It's always either dictatorship or anarchy" was true of the entire planet 300 yrs ago.
If the people wanted it so much, then Putin wouldn't have to mess around with the electoral system to keep himself and his cronies in power.

Putin is pretty popular. People are sick of corruption, and they want a strong state. These things go back and forth.

 

[sandorski]

I have always criticized how Russia went from Communism to Capitalism. IMO that was the first mistake, going from Total Control to No Control made Capitalism and Democracy quite distasteful and kept alive the Dream of Communism as the "Good old Days". A more orderly and gradual transition is what should have happened. Anyway.


Here's another interesting developement though: Putin questions Russia-US relationship

 

[AcidicFury]

My feeling is that people really don't understand how Russia does business and politics. Their style is completely different than any Western country, and many people on this board speculating simply don't understand the complexity of the situation over there.

 

[raildogg]

do you think Russia was ever free?? Most of the news channels are controlled by the government

and during this past election in Russia, the opposition party to Putin wasnt even allowed to run ads on tv

 

[AcidicFury]

Originally posted by: raildogg
do you think Russia was ever free?? Most of the news channels are controlled by the government

and during this past election in Russia, the opposition party to Putin wasnt even allowed to run ads on tv

Source? Cause I call shens.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: AcidicFury

Originally posted by: raildogg
do you think Russia was ever free?? Most of the news channels are controlled by the government

and during this past election in Russia, the opposition party to Putin wasnt even allowed to run ads on tv

Source? Cause I call shens.

heard it on radio, saw it on the internet. will give link when i have time

 

[Kibbo]

I did not ever think that Russia was "free," nor did I think that it had essentially "good government" under Yeltsin. I can see how a gave that impression. Apologies for the ambiguity.

My basic point is that a third party has judged them as significantly "less free" than they were before. Previously, they were rated as "Partly free," under the same grading system.

Seeing this as a pendulum swing is one way to look at it. I can't argue against that. I do fear how far the pendulum will swing in this direction, and how long it will stay there.

And my primary concern with the Yukos affair isn't the rigged auction; as you say, that is no worse than it was before. My great concern is that the original investigation that led to this auction was entirely politically motivated. To do something like that so boldly is a new direction.

Yeltsin sometimes had difficulties maintaining control of the Duma. That shows that there was some form of opposition. Putin has squashed that kind of effective dissent. I think that we can all agree that that is a bad thing.

And Fury, I think that the post-communist era is way too young to make any kind of generalization about how Russians do business or run politics. Much of the current cronyist approach could be seen as a leftover of the communist era, when personal relationships were neccessary to circumvent the inefficient Party bureaucracy. Reducing those behaviours to an inborn "national character" or "cultural attribute" may be too hasty an assessment.