Russia gets Crimea

[Jhhnn]

Back to 'two wrongs make a right' yet again I see.

More like the pot & kettle routine.

 

[code65536]

More like the pot & kettle routine.

Oh grow up. It's the same damn thing: justifying a wrong by bringing up another wrong. And what of EU? You know, the one who is really at conflict with Russia, not the US. What imperialistic doctrine do they have that you can point to for justification?

 

[theeedude]

Oh grow up. It's the same damn thing: justifying a wrong by bringing up another wrong. And what of EU? You know, the one who is really at conflict with Russia, not the US. What imperialistic doctrine do they have that you can point to for justification?

Are you kidding? EU has been expanding faster than any empire in recent memory. Their attempt to suck in Ukraine is what precipitated this crisis in the first place.

 

[code65536]

Are you kidding? EU has been expanding faster than any empire in recent memory. Their attempt to suck in Ukraine is what precipitated this crisis in the first place.

Are you kidding? The EU is an empire in the same way the UN is an empire. Countries join voluntarily. It's CONSENSUAL. Which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about the way Putin goes about doing things.

Hell, if a country's policies don't meet with EU standards (e.g., Turkey), that application process can get delayed indefinitely. Joining the EU is a privilege that countries earn and that countries want. EU wasn't trying to suck in Ukraine--Ukraine was trying to break free of the Russian basketcase.

 

[theeedude]

Are you kidding? The EU is an empire in the same way the UN is an empire. Countries join voluntarily. It's CONSENSUAL. Which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about the way Putin goes about doing things.

Hell, if a country's policies don't meet with EU standards (e.g., Turkey), that application process can get delayed indefinitely. Joining the EU is a privilege that countries earn and that countries want. EU wasn't trying to suck in Ukraine--Ukraine was trying to break free of the Russian basketcase.

But it wants to keep paying Russian ally prices for gas, exporting to Russia on Russian ally terms, getting loans from Russia, etc. Basically they want Russia to subsidize their entry into the EU.

 

[cubby1223]

Yea, there is a HUGE difference the way the EU conducts itself versus the Soviet U.S.S.R. conducted itself.

EU: We offer many trade benefits and economic benefits being joined as partners. However, if you do not want to be a part of us that is fine, live in peace.

U.S.S.R.: You don't want to be a part of us? That's cool, we'll invade you anyways, kill a lot of your citizens, control your government, and imprison many of your citizens who survived our invasion.

Are you kidding? EU has been expanding faster than any empire in recent memory. Their attempt to suck in Ukraine is what precipitated this crisis in the first place.

Your version is yet another half-truth. The other half is that the problem in Ukraine was precipitated by Russia not wanting Ukraine to be a part of the EU. Big difference.

What precipitated this crisis is the horrendous economic conditions of Ukraine. That's why the baltic states with part ethnic Russian populations are not in revolts, because they have decent economies. Shall we look back into what has made the economic conditions so poor? Or would you rather not look behind that curtain? The people in Ukraine wanted to join the EU to benefit their economy.

 

[cubby1223]

But it wants to keep paying Russian ally prices for gas, exporting to Russia on Russian ally terms, getting loans from Russia, etc. Basically they want Russia to subsidize their entry into the EU.

My gosh how stupid can you be with your ancient out-dated logic?

It's not "The EU versus Russia"

It's not a fucking battle for supremacy between these two entities.

Ukraine should be able to ally with both sides, hell I would love it if Russia were allies with the EU and the rest of the world.

But that goes against Russian propaganda and Russia's method for keeping their ruling class in power.

You are an outdated dinosaur.

Wake up you fool.

 

[theeedude]

Yea, there is a HUGE difference the way the EU conducts itself versus the Soviet U.S.S.R. conducted itself.

EU: We offer many trade benefits and economic benefits being joined as partners. However, if you do not want to be a part of us that is fine, live in peace.

U.S.S.R.: You don't want to be a part of us? That's cool, we'll invade you anyways, kill a lot of your citizens, control your government, and imprison many of your citizens who survived our invasion.



Your version is yet another half-truth. The other half is that the problem in Ukraine was precipitated by Russia not wanting Ukraine to be a part of the EU. Big difference.

What precipitated this crisis is the horrendous economic conditions of Ukraine. That's why the baltic states with part ethnic Russian populations are not in revolts, because they have decent economies. Shall we look back into what has made the economic conditions so poor? Or would you rather not look behind that curtain? The people in Ukraine wanted to join the EU to benefit their economy.

Well, they signed their association agreement, we'll see how much benefit they get from it. I am sure EU with its chronic unemployment is eager to have Ukraine replace its Russian exports with EU outsourcing.

 

[theeedude]

My gosh how stupid can you be with your ancient out-dated logic?

It's not "The EU versus Russia"

It's not a fucking battle for supremacy between these two entities.

Ukraine should be able to ally with both sides, hell I would love it if Russia were allies with the EU and the rest of the world.

But that goes against Russian propaganda and Russia's method for keeping their ruling class in power.

You are an outdated dinosaur.

Wake up you fool.

That was EU's position. Either association agreement with us, or the Russian trade agreement, pick one. That's how this mess started.
But since you had to resort to name calling to supplement it, you must know your argument is weak already.

 

[cubby1223]

Maybe the reason why the EU is the fastest growing "empire" is because countries and their citizens desire to live in peace with their territorial neighbors.

 

[cubby1223]

^^
that really is the tale of this situation.

The EU and the west desire to make peaceful friends with its neighbors, while Russia desires to use their neighbors as human shields against the world.

 

[fskimospy]

^^
that really is the tale of this situation.

The EU and the west desire to make peaceful friends with its neighbors, while Russia desires to use their neighbors as human shields against the world.

It is as simple as the fact that Russia is afraid that they will no longer be able to dominate the countries of Eastern Europe. They like being able to do this. NATO is too strong to bully, so it's important that countries they want to bully don't join it.

The idea that Russia is afraid of another German like invasion as a justification for these actions is pretty horribly naive. I have always viewed the latent anti-Americanism of certain parts of the left as some of the silliest parts of it. Understanding that America does bad things in the world sometimes does not require taking the side of a country as bad as Russia as it blatantly commits many of the same sins they decry about America.

 

[Sulaco]

That was EU's position. Either association agreement with us, or the Russian trade agreement, pick one. That's how this mess started.
But since you had to resort to name calling to supplement it, you must know your argument is weak already.

No, it's just that you're acting like a fool and an imbecile and deserve to be called on it, which tends to happen when almost literally the entire developed world disagrees with your nonsense.

 

[raildogg]

Maybe the reason why the EU is the fastest growing "empire" is because countries and their citizens desire to live in peace with their territorial neighbors.

Peace? You think these countries have peace in them?

Sure, the EU nations may not fight each other but I really, really doubt they are peaceful. Human beings can not be peaceful. They don't know peace.

 

[theeedude]

No, it's just that you're acting like a fool and an imbecile and deserve to be called on it, which tends to happen when almost literally the entire developed world disagrees with your nonsense.

You can disagree without undermining your argument by resorting to personal attacks.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

You can disagree without undermining your argument by resorting to personal attacks.

I agree with him, going with a two bit dictator from a third world nation like Russia who's expressed actions are to form an Eurasian community is a bad choice for democracy, prosperity for Ukraine or freedom for anyone involved.

I have no idea why any member of the free world would ever root for a dictator like Putin, it is anti-democratic to do so. Besides, as Europes weltiest man (by a MASSIVE margin without ever having earned more than one thousandth of it but gotten it all by actually funneling the states resources into his own bank account) i am sure he can handle not getting his hands on the entirety of Ukraine too.

TBH, the Russian people were better off under Lenin than under Putin and that says a LOT.

 

[theeedude]

TBH, the Russian people were better off under Lenin than under Putin and that says a LOT.

That's an absurd claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_Rebellion

 

[zinfamous]

Peace? You think these countries have peace in them?

Sure, the EU nations may not fight each other but I really, really doubt they are peaceful. Human beings can not be peaceful. They don't know peace.

Well, compare them to the Europe of the previous 2500 years or so.

 

[zinfamous]

That's an absurd claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_Rebellion

Yeah, that is crazy, but hey: Under the USSR, 100% employment! Can't explain that....

 

[cubby1223]

The election is over and the war that Kiev was too chicken-shit to fight, is on:
http://news.yahoo.com/battle-donetsk-airport-ukraine-leader-says-no-talks-063713602.html

If there has been one thing I learned from this thread it is that you cannot do anything to any ethnic Russian because they will always retaliate with nuclear bombs.

Prepare for nuclear holocaust.



In all seriousness, though, it's a shitty situation they've been thrust into. The goal should be for the two "sides" to figure out how to live together in peace, but sadly one side is fuel by propaganda to make that reality quite difficult to achieve.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The election is over and the war that Kiev was too chicken-shit to fight, is on:
http://news.yahoo.com/battle-donetsk-airport-ukraine-leader-says-no-talks-063713602.html

If there has been one thing I learned from this thread it is that you cannot do anything to any ethnic Russian because they will always retaliate with nuclear bombs.

Prepare for nuclear holocaust.



In all seriousness, though, it's a shitty situation they've been thrust into. The goal should be for the two "sides" to figure out how to live together in peace, but sadly one side is fuel by propaganda to make that reality quite difficult to achieve.

Both sides are fuel by propaganda however it would of been the best route taken by the US and EU (lead by Germany on the issue) to bring both sides to the negotiation table before the shooting really started. Then the US and the EU could of forced a compromise via a long drawn out process of negotiations thus depriving Russia a card to play in this matter. However being that this administration and the EU were both hell bent on doing anything for the sake of doing something they chose the knee-jerk reactionary option of picking a side and then pushing for a confrontation on the issue which played into Russia's hand and allowed this situation to escalate to the point we have today.

 

[Genx87]

This guy didn't waste any time getting down to business.

 

[cirrrocco]

so maidan protestors != terrorists but donetsk rebels = terrorist

okay continue with programming.

 

[Daverino]

so maidan protestors != terrorists but donetsk rebels = terrorist

okay continue with programming.

Maiden protestors were attacked, shot and killed by the police and army.
Donetsk rebels attack, shoot and kill the police and army.

Can you spot the difference?

 

[fskimospy]

so maidan protestors != terrorists but donetsk rebels = terrorist

okay continue with programming.

You realize that Putin has apparently not decided to invade The rest of Ukraine, right?

That means you don't need to keep putting out Russian propaganda.