Russia gets Crimea

[norseamd]

I don't think them being independent would be a good thing. They had de-facto independence after the first Chechnya war, and they turned into a terrorist safe haven, which led to the second war to clean that cesspool.

chechnya does not want to be ruled by the russians and that is a bad thing but crimea does not want to be ruled by kyiv and yet that would be a good thing

where does the hypocrisy start and where does the hypocrisy end

and this referendum still is not legitimite and we really do not know how many crimean residents want to be ruled by the muscovites

 

[theeedude]

chechnya does not want to be ruled by the russians and that is a bad thing but crimea does not want to be ruled by kyiv and yet that would be a good thing

where does the hypocrisy start and where does the hypocrisy end

and this referendum still is not legitimite and we really do not know how many crimean residents want to be ruled by the muscovites

Kosovo deciding not to be part of Serbia is a good thing, and Crimea deciding not to be part of Ukraine is a bad thing. Consistency is not an important feature of international relations. Russia didn't start that. You can call it hypocrisy, but for all the talk of international law, the reality is that might makes right.
The referendum is sufficiently legitimate and the outcome sufficiently clear to the Crimeans, since they aren't fighting the results. That's good enough.

 

[norseamd]

The referendum is sufficiently legitimate and the outcome sufficiently clear to the Crimeans, since they aren't fighting the results.

the crimean tatars are

and there has been some conflict involving ukrainians including one soldier who is not around

 

[norseamd]

furthermore the crimean tatars did not vote at all so if that 80% was true it would have to add the value of the crimean tatar population to find the real value for support of acceding to muscovy

 

[theeedude]

the crimean tatars are

and there has been some conflict involving ukrainians including one soldier who is not around

Nothing a bit of:

won't take care of

Consider yourself warned for a funny but insensitive pun.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[shady28]

Kosovo deciding not to be part of Serbia is a good thing, and Crimea deciding not to be part of Ukraine is a bad thing. Consistency is not an important feature of international relations. Russia didn't start that. You can call it hypocrisy, but for all the talk of international law, the reality is that might makes right.
The referendum is sufficiently legitimate and the outcome sufficiently clear to the Crimeans, since they aren't fighting the results. That's good enough.

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. […] The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt."

-1984

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

Kosovo deciding not to be part of Serbia is a good thing, and Crimea deciding not to be part of Ukraine is a bad thing. Consistency is not an important feature of international relations. Russia didn't start that. You can call it hypocrisy, but for all the talk of international law, the reality is that might makes right.
The referendum is sufficiently legitimate and the outcome sufficiently clear to the Crimeans, since they aren't fighting the results. That's good enough.

Hahaha. Fuck you.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yes, that's the exception to the rule. You can tell a Tatar from a Russian or a Ukrainian, but you can't really tell a Ukrainian from a Russian from just ethnic differences, because there aren't any. So if both are raised in same culture and speaking same language, you can't assume they will see things differently because of their ethnicity. Crimean Tatars are culturally and religiously separate, so there is much more correlation between ethnicity and politics there.

Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar?

Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar?

Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nothing a bit of:

won't take care of

Well, the Russians ethnically cleansed Crimea of Tatars before so I guess they could do it again and maybe you could make a joke about it.

 

[theeedude]

Well, the Russians ethnically cleansed Crimea of Tatars before so I guess they could do it again and maybe you could make a joke about it.

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.

I don't think there will be issues with the Tatars. They are going to huff and puff about it, but they know they are a small minority, so they'll just have to get on with their lives. Those hoping for some Chechnya style scenario will be disappointed.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.

I don't think there will be issues with the Tatars. They are going to huff and puff about it, but they know they are a small minority, so they'll just have to get on with their lives. Those hoping for some Chechnya style scenario will be disappointed.

You mean that life where their land will be confiscated and they *might* get some crappy land back?

Ukraine’s breakaway region of Crimea will ask Tatars to vacate part of the land where they now live in exchange for new territory elsewhere in the region, a top Crimean government official said Tuesday.

Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliyev said in an interview with RIA Novosti on Tuesday the new government in Crimea, where residents voted Sunday to become part of Russia, wants to regularize the land unofficially taken over by Crimean Tatar squatters following the collapse of the Soviet Union.


“We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs,” Temirgaliyev said. “But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars,” he said.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140319/188544777/Crimean-Tatars-Will-Have-to-Vacate-Land--Official.html


And you support these disgusting people and their even more disgusting Russian puppet masters. Shame.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.

I don't think there will be issues with the Tatars. They are going to huff and puff about it, but they know they are a small minority, so they'll just have to get on with their lives. Those hoping for some Chechnya style scenario will be disappointed.

btw, you do remember that the only reason the Tatars are a "small minority" is because that 'Georgian' shipped out almost the whole Tatar population and moved ethnic Russians onto their stolen land. You do remember that don't you?

I also noticed that, when given the chance, you never backed up your claim as to:

"You can tell a Tatar from a Russian or a Ukrainian, but you can't really tell a Ukrainian from a Russian from just ethnic differences, because there aren't any"

 

[cubby1223]

Nothing a bit of:

won't take care of

Only someone with a hatred for an ethnic group would post something like this.

Careful, you're letting your true self show a little too much.

 

[dmcowen674]

Nice

Who is that?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nice

Who is that?

I'll tell you in a bit. I'm still waiting to see an example of his ability to tell by the 'obvious' physical differences who is who in those pictures. Seems like it should be easy for him based on his claim.

 

[cubby1223]

I'll tell you in a bit. I'm still waiting to see an example of his ability to tell by the 'obvious' physical differences who is who in those pictures. Seems like it should be easy for him based on his claim.

although it's very easy to cheat the test by checking out the filenames of the images and find the web pages that display those images...

 

[theeedude]

Only someone with a hatred for an ethnic group would post something like this.

Hatred for Crimean Tatars? Good one.

Careful, you're letting your true self show a little too much.

Maybe you are judging others by yourself a bit too much.

 

[cubby1223]

furthermore the crimean tatars did not vote at all so if that 80% was true it would have to add the value of the crimean tatar population to find the real value for support of acceding to muscovy

So what you might be saying happened is, the group who assumed power allowed or disallowed people to vote based on their likelihood of supporting their agenda? Say it ain't so!

 

[cubby1223]

Hatred for Crimean Tatars? Good one.

Maybe you are judging others by yourself a bit too much.

You posted it, not I. Would you like to further elaborate on your feelings towards ethnic minorities?

I wasn't the one who made the joke that an ethnic group is an insignificant group easily controlled by the majority.

That's for you to defend.

 

[Victorian Gray]

although it's very easy to cheat the test by checking out the filenames of the images and find the web pages that display those images...

crap! Forgot about that. Oh well.

 

[theeedude]

btw, you do remember that the only reason the Tatars are a "small minority" is because that 'Georgian' shipped out almost the whole Tatar population and moved ethnic Russians onto their stolen land. You do remember that don't you?

I also noticed that, when given the chance, you never backed up your claim as to:

"You can tell a Tatar from a Russian or a Ukrainian, but you can't really tell a Ukrainian from a Russian from just ethnic differences, because there aren't any"

First two probably Tatars, last one Russian or Ukrainian.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nice

Who is that?

Miss Russia, 2013. She's a Tatar.

 

[theeedude]

You posted it, not I. Would you like to further elaborate on your feelings towards ethnic minorities?

I wasn't the one who made the joke that an ethnic group is an insignificant group easily controlled by the majority.

That's for you to defend.

I don't have feelings towards ethnic minorities, just individual people, especially ones without a sense of humor.

 

[Victorian Gray]

First two probably Tatars, last one Russian or Ukrainian.

Probably? I thought it was suppose to be easy? What is it that says "probably" Tatar to you?

The young woman was Miss Russia 2013. She's a Tatar.

And nothing to say about this yet?

"btw, you do remember that the only reason the Tatars are a "small minority" is because that 'Georgian' shipped out almost the whole Tatar population and moved ethnic Russians onto their stolen land. You do remember that don't you?"

 

[cubby1223]

I don't have feelings towards ethnic minorities, just individual people, especially ones without a sense of humor.

Didn't look to me like that image was directed at a specific individual.

There are things that are funny. And then there are things that help people understand who they are conversing with.