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Russia gets Crimea

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bshole said:
When Russia takes over nobody dies, when America takes over, millions are displaced, hundreds of thousands die and the area is left in complete and utter desolation and anarchy. Russian BLOODLESS invasions are civilized in comparison to the armegeddons that America inflicts.
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Now you've been reduced to "but this illegal invasion wasn't as bad as some others".

Isn't this embarrassing for you at this point? I think it is pretty clear from your various posts that you hate America or at least the American government. (btw that is not an attempt at hyperbole. If you don't agree let me know) What's odd about this is that Russia is worse than America in basically every discernible way, yet out of some contrarian urge or whatever you want to defend them.
 
Genx87 said:
Oh well then that makes it all right. Now lets see what happens when this new found part of Russian territory goes to evict the Ukrainian army before we get too excited about bloodless invasions. I am also pretty sure many died in the invasion of Georgia and Chechnya.
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Tens of thousands of people died in the Russian invasion of Chechnya out of a population of only about 1 million. If you adjust the casualties for population size a far greater proportion of Chechens died than did Iraqis in that "bloodless" invasion.

So when the US invades an area and occupies it that's an 'armageddon'. When Russia invades and occupies an area, leading to a far greater slaughter among the residents of that territory that's A-OK. Not only that, but apparently Putin has the 'moral authority' to do this too!

This guy is impressively stupid.
 
Eski,

You are a neocon. You are not a progressive. There is no way a good progressive could believe the things you have been saying on this thread. Your worldview is just plain messed up.
 
eskimospy said:
Who said this?
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I said that.


eskimospy said:
I would love to see some links from you supporting what you wrote that don't come from Russian state media.
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http://rt.com/news/international-observers-crimea-referendum-190/

“It’s all quiet so far,” Mateus Piskorkski, the leader of the European observers’ mission and Polish MP told Itar-Tass. “Our observers have not registered any violations of voting rules.”
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You may disagree with RT, but the fact remains. The Election observation missions is part of the European Commission http://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/what/human-rights/election_observation_missions/index_en.htm
135 international observers have arrived from 23 countries, including Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Latvia and Poland, Crimean authorities said. Among those monitoring the referendum are members of the EU and national European parliaments, international law experts and human rights activists.
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eskimospy said:
If you actually believe what you just wrote here you're delusional.
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There is too much news footage coming out of Crimea to deny they were having free and open elections.
 
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Fern said:
There was poll done just a couple of weeks before Russia invaded and, IIRC, only 40% supported independence/joining Russia.

Given the circumstance under which the vote was held I do not believe it can be seen as accurate or legitimate.

Fern
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Can you source that? I can't find it.
 
Texashiker said:
I said that.

http://rt.com/news/international-observers-crimea-referendum-190/

You may disagree with RT, but the fact remains. The Election observation missions is part of the European Commission http://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/what/human-rights/election_observation_missions/index_en.htm

There is too much news footage coming out of Crimea to deny they were having free and open elections.
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I like how your response to me asking you for a link that backed you up that didn't come from Russian state-run media was to.... link to Russian state-run media.

In other news, North Korean state-run media reports everything is going great in North Korea. I guess that we had them all wrong!

EDIT: Also, the European Commission did not send election observers. In fact, the EU (of which the European Commission is part) condemned the lack of real observers. It's funny that the organization you linked to about election observers says the exact opposite of what you were trying to say.
 
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Genx87 said:
There we go. I knew we would see a link to Russian State media for Texashikers sources on how legitimate this referendum was lol
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I'm curious as to how TH would react if prior to the next US elections Obama shut down all TV stations not owned by him and stationed armed guards loyal to him at each poling station.
 
WelshBloke said:
I'm curious as to how TH would react if prior to the next US elections Obama shut down all TV stations not owned by him and stationed armed guards loyal to him at each poling station.
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I'd guess call him a Stalinist socialist marxist dictator. But when a product of communism(Putin) pulls a stalin tactic it is open, freedom, and true democracy. We just cant make this up.
 
eskimospy said:
EDIT: Also, the European Commission did not send election observers. In fact, the EU (of which the European Commission is part) condemned the lack of real observers. It's funny that the organization you linked to about election observers says the exact opposite of what you were trying to say.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014#Monitors

Do you have anything saying opposite?

Do not discredit the message because you disagree with the messenger.
 
Texashiker said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014#Monitors

Do you have anything saying opposite?

Do not discredit the message because you disagree with the messenger.
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Yes. The European Union itself.

Since you appear to believe that there is an EC election observation team there please provide a link that is not from Russian state-run media that supports it.

I'm sure the EC would be very interested in this information as they have condemned the election.
 
bshole said:
When Russia takes over nobody dies, when America takes over, millions are displaced, hundreds of thousands die, civilization ceases and the area is left in complete and utter desolation and anarchy. Russian BLOODLESS invasions are civilized in comparison to the armegeddons that America inflicts. Now if this devolves into something like a typtical American fuckup, I will amend my position at that time.

Right now, all I can say is, good show Putin!! Russia has the moral authority to tell America to stick it up their ass.

Eski, grats on earning your NEO-CON wings, you should be proud.
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Two things: 1) it's not over and 2) Russia loves peace
 
Texashiker said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014#Monitors

Do you have anything saying opposite?

Do not discredit the message because you disagree with the messenger.
Click to expand...



All 28 member states of the European Union believe the separation of the Crimea from Ukraine to be unacceptable under international law
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If you read the link. You would see the few people who showed up from the EU, without EU sanction, had an agenda. That is how we get a fair and honest election. By placing ideologues at the polling station next to the soldiers.

/facepalm
 
WelshBloke said:
Well, there's the whole "EU is going for sanctions against Russia" thing that suggests that they aren't best pleased.
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Of course the EU is going to be pissed. They wanted access to the economy of the Ukraine and Crimea.

The situation is not only about Crimea, and the Ukraine, it is also a vote against the EU.

But you know what, this is none of the EUs or United States business.
 
Eski,

I will give you the same advice as I give to all neocons. If you are THAT upset about the Crimea, by all means strap on some guns, catch the nearest jet and show the Russians what you are made of.

Do NOT ask the rest of America to send their children to die for your necon paranoias.
 
bshole said:
Eski,

I will give you the same advice as I give to all neocons. If you are THAT upset about the Crimea, by all means strap on some guns, catch the nearest jet and show the Russians what you are made of.

Do NOT ask the rest of America to send their children to die for your neccon paranoias.
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Nobody is calling for a military solution to this except Russia. Economic sanctions will hopefully be harsh and hurt the Russian economy enough they wont pull this again.
 
Does anyone believe Ukraine would let Crimea have this vote? The right of self determination is not even recognized within the United States. Truly it is a rare jewel where ever one may find it.

Perhaps the process is f'ed up because there is no process. No one is open and free enough to allow borders to reflect cultural or ethnic changes. Russia moved in with force, because force is what is necessary to stop Ukraine.

Is the vote clean? No. But what can they do? What can we do? All this useless bickering, I hear no one speak of moving forward.

I am less upset seeing Russians rejoining Russia, than many other posters here. So I am less resolved to seeing us do something costly in response. Yet I am still open to hearing if anyone has any good ideas.
 
bshole said:
Eski,

You are a neocon. You are not a progressive. There is no way a good progressive could believe the things you have been saying on this thread. Your worldview is just plain messed up.
Click to expand...

Well eskimo, you guys have your own very own Incorruptible now.
 
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