Running WoW - poor performance

[ZanatosFox]

Hey everyone. I hope I'm posting in the right forum, if not let me know where I should put thisl. Anyway, I'm having problems running WoW as smoothly as I'd like to. I've got 2 computers which I can run it on:

The first is my main desktop which I built about 5 years ago:
Athlon 64 3500+ Newcastle 2.2GHz S939, 1GB DDR PC 3200, ATI X800 XT PE 256 MB, WD Caviar 200GB HD

The second is my laptop issued by work:
Dell Latitude E6500 - Intel Core2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz, 2GB DDR2, NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M

The desktop used to be just fine for WoW until Lich King was released, now it struggles. Probably due to 2 things: upgraded expansion graphics, and I just got a 1920 x 1080 monitor. After a fresh reformat, it runs pretty well and I get around 40-50 FPS in the old world, 30 FPS out in the expansion world, but if I go to a new city or raid, I dip down to around 10 FPS. Pretty bad, but I could handle it. However, it seems to get worse as time goes by, within a couple weeks, it's running15-20 FPS in the expansion world and down to single digit FPS in raids and cities.

The laptopI thought would do better, but It's got a similar situation. The native resolution is 1600 x 1200, so this is what I play at. When I first installed the game it was running fantastic, was getting 30 - 40 FPS in cities and raids, but now it's down to maybe 15 FPS Another thing I've been getting, is at the start of some of the boss fights, I get about 1 - 2 minutes of <1 FPS where its completely unplayable, seems like maybe it's loading up a bunch of stuff, and once that's over it goes back up to about 15 FPS like usual.

Needless to say, I'm not very happy with the performance I'm seeing. Plus, Im not too keen on running WoW on my work computer, so I was thinking of a new build so I can get smooth WoW performance.

So, after all that babling, I have a couple of questions:
- Is there somethign I could be doing differently on these 2 machines to get better performance? I'm guessing I'm just using too high of resolutions. Could HDD load speed be an issue as well? Would an SSD help?
- What would be a minimum setup for a new build to get completely smooth performance @ 1920 x 1080 High to Max settings, including raids?

Thanks!

 

[Marty502]

SSD won't help you one bit. It will reduce a bit of stuttering maybe, but your FPS will just stay smoothly low. Not worth the price.

Try lowering your resolution and details first.
That should give you a big bump, particularly on your laptop which hasn't got the fastest GPU in the world, but has a good CPU.
Also, your desktop really needs a new GPU. Your mobo has an AGP or a PCI-E slot? If it's AGP, you're pretty much toast, but with a PCI-E there's plenty of choices.

 

[Pantlegz]

I would drop details, the new shadows in wotlk really kill performance and they're not all that noticeable. I would start with the details all the way down and move up slowly.

+1 on the new gpu if possible too

 

[ZanatosFox]

Good call on the laptop, I think the details may be on a higher setting, although I know for a fact shadows are off. I'll still give that a try and post what happens. Even if this helps, I'd like to not have to play on the laptop all the time, I'd much prefer just to do it on the desktop.

When I play on the desktop, I've already go the details all the way down, so it sounds like it's just my GPU. Unfortunately, my MOBO has an AGP slot.... so I may indeed be Toast as Marty said. I could maybe fit an HD 4650 or 3850 AGP in there, but, I'm not sure if a new GPU would help significantly if my CPU is still a large bottleneck. If that's the case, I'll need to pretty much re-build my desktop anyway ie. CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU/HDD(mine is mostly full). So I rather than try to go the upgrade route, I was considering just starting fresh. If I were to do that, what would you say I need CPU/GPU wise to play @ 1920 x 1080 with high settings (shadows not necessary) and not go much below 60FPS?

 

[Binky]

You cannot run at those resolutions with your hardware. Drop the res down to the minimum widescreen res (assuming you run widescreen) and drop detail down a LOT. Spell detail really kills FPS in raids.

Nothing in your desktop is modern, but it is most hindered by the memory and HD. Bumping to at least 2gb memory would probably be the best thing for the money. Memory helps a lot in cities. Your HD is also very, very slow. A modern 320-640gb drive would make a huge difference, especially in load times. Your video and CPU are not fast, but they are not the weakest part of your setup.

Full 1920-1080 res is a LOT to ask. I'm running a core2 quad @ 3.7ghz, 4gb mem, and an ATI 4850, and I still limit myself to 1650x1080 to keep the FPS up at an acceptable level at all times with pretty high detail.

 

[yh125d]

On your desktop the main bottleneck is your CPU, an old slow single core is very bad for WoW, which is dual threaded and very CPU intensive, although the GPU isn't helping either.


I'd pick up a X2 Kuma/AM2+ mobo/4gb DDR2/4670, should be doable for ~$250 and will play WoW *much* better than an old

 

[California Roll]

WoW is one of the rare games that is very CPU dependent instead of GPU. A good GPU definitely helps, but not if the bottleneck is the CPU.

 

[laezyre]

Honestly, it's hardly worth upgrading at this point. Your machine is quite ancient for gaming, even for WoW. I'd recommend using the desktop for everthing BUT gaming, and build a new one. I've seen threads here for pc's for about $600. If you're really cash strapped, you could keep the case, mouse and keyboard.

Prices are low. You can get a decent video card for about $100(ati 4770, 3850), a good cpu for about $100(phenom II X2 or a core 2), DDR2 Ram is crazy cheap now(like $30-$40 for 4 gigs), a 500 gb WD hard disk for about $60, and a decent mobo for about $80.

Clearly this isn't bleeding edge stuff, but it should be great for WoW and good for everything else currently out there for a while.

Good luck.

 

[jterrell]

Are you playing with any Addons?

I know most WoW gamers that experience lag build up are doing so because of quest helper/auctioneer or other addons that leech memory constantly.

And again as they mention many times, WoW is somewhat CPU intensive.

The box in my sig plays it very well.

 

[Hacp]

I don't have a subscription or else I would test it out on my E6400 with the vertex to see if the SSD would help. I have the exact same specs as you(but with a smaller screen). One suggestion is to try to overclock the GPU. The core on the 160m overclocks quite well. I think it can get to 700mhz. The memory doesn't overclock at all though.

 

[Eureka]

Also, if you're looking at a hold-me-over upgrade, you should still be able to find 3850 AGP cards easily for around $80-100, and even if it is bottlenecked by the rest of your system it should give you a solid upgrade. Of course, the better choice long-term is to just go with a new system.

New mobo+CPU combo:150-200
RAM: 40
GPU: 85 (4850 is a great one to look at)

Save your HDD, case, PSU if they're solid components. That nets you around 275-325 for a quick upgrade.

 

[ZanatosFox]

Thanks for all of the input so far, it's much appreciated.

About the laptop, I'd rather not take any chances with doing any OCing or anything like that to the laptop, since it actually belongs to my work. In fact, I'd really like to stop using it for WoW, I'm only using it currently since my desktop won't run it well enough anymore.

Anyway, I did normally play with some addons, but I've since disabled nearly all of them to try to get better performance. What it comes down to is I guess I just have to face the facts that my desktop is getting rather ancient and it just won't play the game well anymore at these resolutions. I'm wondering if an aging / failing HDD could be causing the performance degradations, as that is the thing I'm having most trouble understanding. So if I were to upgrade, my HDD and PSU PSU (18A +12v rail.. yikes) would need to be replaced most likely, Case could maybe be reused. With all of that, I kind of agree that upgrades seem little less appealing, as it's getting close to a full system at that point.

If I'm now looking at building a new system, would something in the range of $600 - $800 (w/o monitor, KB, Mouse, possibly case) be able to play WoW @ 1920 x 1080 w/ fairly high detail - 60ish FPS consistent, or would I be looking at something a bit higher end like a faster C2Q, or i7 w/ a near top end GPU?

jterrell - what resolution do you play at, and what kind of framerates does your system give you?

 

[California Roll]

Athlon 64 3500+ Newcastle 2.2GHz S939, 1GB DDR PC 3200, ATI X800 XT PE 256 MB, WD Caviar 200GB HD

As people have mentioned, any upgrades you do to this will help little and honestly be a waste of money (for WoW purposes).

The system I have in my sig can play at 1920x1080 with everything turned on with no problems. It was highish end when I purchased it 6 months and could be called budget now. You could put together a similar system for around $400 easily. An $800 budget will get you a really nice system which probably won't show better performance than what I have, but would help guarantee you can handle stuff better down the line.

After 5 years, it's a good time for a new system

 

[Hacp]

Its just my opinion, but building a whole new computer for something like wow is a bit of a waste -_-. I was running WOTLK last year just fine with an old 9700pro machine(at 1280/1024). Averaged about 20fps.

 

[laezyre]

You can get a decent mid sized case for $50(coolermaster comes to mind) and a 500 watt PS for about $50 as well. Newegg is my favorite place and has alot of free shipping items. I would not buy the i7 intel cpu line as the bang for the buck is not good now.

I agree that you could probably get a decent system for $400-$500 that will run WoW very well at high resolutions.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: ZanatosFox
If I'm now looking at building a new system, would something in the range of $600 - $800 (w/o monitor, KB, Mouse, possibly case) be able to play WoW @ 1920 x 1080 w/ fairly high detail - 60ish FPS consistent, or would I be looking at something a bit higher end like a faster C2Q, or i7 w/ a near top end GPU?

Faster is always better, but $800 can get you a LOT of gaming computer these days.

Back to your old computer for a moment... IMO your 1GB RAM is the biggest limit. However, yes, basically you just need to replace the whole thing at this stage.

I'd say go as far as to even replace the case, because then you have two physical complete computers instead of one computer and a pile of parts minus a case. You can find a creative use for the second computer, or donate it to a needy family or friend as a complete and working system.

There are many ways to build a decent mid-range computer for playing WoW. The best thing to do is to keep the basics in mind.
1) Lots of RAM (3-4GB if you are on XP).
2) Minimum dual-core CPU, fastest MHz you can afford.
3) At least a mid-range graphics card. I'd start with NVIDIA GTS 250 or Radeon 4850 as bare minimum, higher if possible.

Example:

CPU $125 should get you a Phenom II x3 or a Core 2 Duo E7400 or so
fan/heatsink $40 should get a nice one that will let you overclock
mobo $100 should get you something functional, more money doesn't buy more performance only more features
RAM 4GB DDR2 $40
HDD WD Black 640GB is a good one starting at around $70
DVDRW $25
case: plenty of good ones starting at $50 such as various Rosewill, Cooler Master Centurion 5, etc.
PSU good quality 500W range starting at $75 give or take depending on sales and personal preference
Radeon 4870 or GeForce GTX 260 for around $175 give or take depending on sales and personal preference

That's around $700 and should push good framerates in WoW at 1920x1080. Note that some places such as Dalaran will still be laggy, and that can't be helped.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: ZanatosFox
Thanks for all of the input so far, it's much appreciated.

About the laptop, I'd rather not take any chances with doing any OCing or anything like that to the laptop, since it actually belongs to my work. In fact, I'd really like to stop using it for WoW, I'm only using it currently since my desktop won't run it well enough anymore.

Anyway, I did normally play with some addons, but I've since disabled nearly all of them to try to get better performance. What it comes down to is I guess I just have to face the facts that my desktop is getting rather ancient and it just won't play the game well anymore at these resolutions. I'm wondering if an aging / failing HDD could be causing the performance degradations, as that is the thing I'm having most trouble understanding. So if I were to upgrade, my HDD and PSU PSU (18A +12v rail.. yikes) would need to be replaced most likely, Case could maybe be reused. With all of that, I kind of agree that upgrades seem little less appealing, as it's getting close to a full system at that point.

If I'm now looking at building a new system, would something in the range of $600 - $800 (w/o monitor, KB, Mouse, possibly case) be able to play WoW @ 1920 x 1080 w/ fairly high detail - 60ish FPS consistent, or would I be looking at something a bit higher end like a faster C2Q, or i7 w/ a near top end GPU?

jterrell - what resolution do you play at, and what kind of framerates does your system give you?

You would be able to play WoW very well for a lot less than $600. I play wow quite regularly on the system in my sig, and it is way overkill. I'm talking 1920x1080, and all maxed settings including shadows plus a full custom UI and I'm averaging ~50fps out in the world. Decrease the shadows and it jumps to almost 100. You could spend $600 and get a rig that will last a while, but if WoW is really the only reason for upgrading you could probably do better with not spending so much.

Now, be sure to rule out having low FPS in cities like dalaran as something meaning your computer is slow. I built a computer for one of my guildies with an i7 and GTX295 and he still only gets 30ish in Dal.


Take a look at my post above. Something like a modern X2/X3/X4 or C2d with 4gb of ram and a midrange card (4670/4770/4850, I wouldnt bother going higher cause you won't really notice a difference) would play WoW very well for not a lot of expense. You could add to my post a modern SATA HD which would improve loading times, but would have only a small effect on your FPS so I'll leave that to you

 

[ZanatosFox]

Update:

I picked up an SSD, the Intel X-25M when it was up as the shell shocker over at the Egg with the intention of using it my new system when I got all the parts together. Figured I'd drop it into my old system in the meantime to play around ( A64 3500+ / 1GB / ATI X800XT, see sig), and I've seen some huge improvements. I didn't even install the OS on it, I simply moved the page file over there, increased its size, and moved my WoW folder there as well. (*grumble grumble* damn winXP needing a floppy to load my SATA drivers.... I'll get the OS on the SSD eventually)

I went from what was mentioned above, basically unplayable results in Dalaran and raids, to a very manageable level of performance, not amazing mind you, but manageable. Was getting around 3FPS in Dal and raids pre-SSD, now I range from 15-20FPS in those situations, and 60 (max vsync) out in the world where it's not crowded. This is @ 1920 x 1080 w/ low - mid settings. I am quite impressed by this aging system after that upgrade. It now plays much smoother than the laptop I mentioned in the OP. I'd suspect that I'm simply too CPU limited to see much improvement beyond that when there are a lot of other players around.

Hmmm.. now this makes a difficult choice if it's even worth a rebuild right now, since I do have some cash to burn if I so choose, but... I can now live with what I've got for the time being...... *ponder*

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: ZanatosFox
I picked up an SSD, the Intel X-25M...

I went from what was mentioned above, basically unplayable results in Dalaran and raids, to a very manageable level of performance, not amazing mind you, but manageable. Was getting around 3FPS in Dal and raids pre-SSD, now I range from 15-20FPS in those situations

IMO I still think your system to be limited by the 1GB memory. What Windows does when you are low on memory is to use the hard drive for virtual memory (AKA swap or page file). With the SSD you basically made your fake memory much faster.

 

[ZanatosFox]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: ZanatosFox
I picked up an SSD, the Intel X-25M...

I went from what was mentioned above, basically unplayable results in Dalaran and raids, to a very manageable level of performance, not amazing mind you, but manageable. Was getting around 3FPS in Dal and raids pre-SSD, now I range from 15-20FPS in those situations

IMO I still think your system to be limited by the 1GB memory. What Windows does when you are low on memory is to use the hard drive for virtual memory (AKA swap or page file). With the SSD you basically made your fake memory much faster.

Exactly, that was my idea actually. I figured DDR1 was not exactly cheap and I wasn't sure how much effect it would have on my performance, but if I got an SSD I could get some idea how much gain I might see. Then, later, I could use the SSD when I do build my new system, so if I got very little performance gains, it's not like I had wasted money on an upgrade only for a 5 yr old system. Now that I've seen how much of a difference it made, I may consider buying some more RAM for it.

Actually, on that note, anyone have 2x 512M or 1G sticks of DDR1 PC3200 laying around that they'd be willing to part with??

 

[SunSamurai]

Ive played Wow since 04 and have a 3200+ 939 CPU with a 8800GTS. I have done alot in the way of getting wow to preform well. Here is the following in rough order or importance of what you can do.

1. OC your CPU.
2. Buy 1GB more DDR
3. Save the screenshots and WTF/Addon folder, then fully delete the wow folder and do a full clean install. Once done run the game without addons or the WTF stuff. Then if you feel like it replace WTF and the addons folder with your backups and see if there is a change. There shouldent be unless something is doing alot of polling. DPS meters like Recount can. If Fubar is profiling your CPU (whatever the fuck it does) turn that off. Its screws framerate.
4. Turn the view distance to 1-3 ticks from the far left.
5. SSD will make framerate smoother, and probably higher due to your lack of RAM, but it is no replacement for more RAM.
6. Lots of other shit that shouldent apply to you or youd be seeing under 10FPS in such situations.