Running CAT5e and RG6 next to each other?

[Eug]

I'm putting down RG6 in my basement. Can I put it beside my CAT5e runs? Doing it that way would make my life easier.

I'm running 2 x CAT5e (one for data, one for phone) for each room and I figure I may as well do RG6 at the same time.

P.S. While I can terminate CAT5e just fine, I haven't had much luck with RG6. I think I may pay someone else to do the cable terminations.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I'm putting down RG6 in my basement. Can I put it beside my CAT5e runs? Doing it that way would make my life easier.
I'm running 2 x CAT5e (one for data, one for phone) for each room and I figure I may as well do RG6 at the same time.
P.S. While I can terminate CAT5e just fine, I haven't had much luck with RG6. I think I may pay someone else to do the cable terminations.

I don't think there should be an interference problem; all the signals you're running are very low level.
Try this for your RG6...

 

[Eug]

P.S. I have about a 40 foot run of RG59 in my upstairs to my home office. I'm thinking of getting cable broadband there. Replace it with RG6?

It's doable but somewhat of a PITA, since I'd be drilling through my exterior wall and running it outside.

I could do that and have one homerun for the cable modem directly to the cable splitter box outside the house, and use the RG59 for the TV. Or else I could run two lines and just disconnect the RG59 completely. Whaddya think?

 

[CallMeJoe]

P.S. I have about a 40 foot run of RG59 in my upstairs to my home office. I'm thinking of getting cable broadband there. Replace it with RG6?
It's doable but somewhat of a PITA, since I'd be drilling through my exterior wall and running it outside.
I could do that and have one homerun for the cable modem directly to the cable splitter box outside the house, and use the RG59 for the TV. Or else I could run two lines and just disconnect the RG59 completely. Whaddya think?

RG6 is generally recommended over RG59 for cable & satellite systems. Better bandwidth.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I know that part, but I was just wondering if it's going to be a waste of time replacing a 40 foot run, in terms of lessening signal degradation.

Depending on the routing though, I'm thinking I can probably reduce it to under 30 feet though.

 

[Destiny]

I run RG6 with a splitter/signal booster along Cat5 cables... everything is running fine to my PC/Media Player devices and all 4 HDTVs get great signals... as long as you use a signal/amplifer booster for your RG6 you should be fine. The issue is the splitter/signal/amplifer booster needs its own power source so it has to be near an electrical outlet - the main RG6 cable line comes in and connects to a two way splitter with one going to my internet cable modem and the other goest to the 4 way splitter/signal/amplifier booster then to the 4 TVs...without the booster all 4 of my TVs get poor picture quality... you can pick one up from Home Depot for like $10... I also get free basic cable with this set up because we only pay for the cable internet...

 

[sdifox]

no problem. Should look at wire conduits in buildings

 

[Modelworks]

The main thing is if you use RG59 then use it on all the splitters. Don't mix RG6 with RG59 on the same setup. They have different capacitance values and can cause reflections that will hurt your signal.

Also be careful what brands you buy as the quality varies a bunch between brands.
I like belden 1694A for RG6 and belden 1505a for RG59. The poorer the quality the more signal you lose every foot. 1694a cable runs about $250 per 500ft or 50 cents a foot, look on a site like monoprice and they sell 1000ft of RG6 for under $60. Run your signal through that and you will need an amp every 100ft the loss is so high.


If you run the cable inside a wall it has to be rated for fire safety otherwise in a fire the fire can burn it like rope and spread the fire.

To terminate it you need a good set of crimpers and compression fittings. Those little $10 ones are crap.
Something like this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...p-Tool-%28LCCT1)&c=Compression Tools&sku=
and these connectors
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...ors-(Bag-of-50)-(PV6QXPV)&c=F-Connectors&sku=
Most cables like HDMI quality isn't all that important but with RF cables it is everything.

 

[electroju]

Usually RG-6 includes shielding, so it will minimize interference. If the shielding is not grounded correctly, shielding is just useless. If you worry about interference with the RG-6 and the Ethernet cable, twist or braid them together. The 45 degrees should be enough to minimize interference even if the shielding is not properly grounded.

Fifty feet of RG-59 is plenty for cable modems. RG-6 will not give you more benefits besides better shielding. If you going to do long runs like hundreds of feet, go with RG-6.

It is best to split at the main box where everything is split to go to each room of your house. This makes it easier to troubleshoot. Also splitters usually cause problems compared to the cable. There is no such thing as RG-6 splitters. There are splitters that can handle above 1 GHz, but again there are no RG-6 splitters. RG-6 is a specification of the coax cable.

You have to get the right tool for the job. The wrong tool will always cause a mess. A good crimper costs $50 and up. Get one with a ratchet action.

Th number one thing for RF is make sure the impedance is the same throughout the whole system. If the signal is too high, digital tuners including analog tuners can have problems. Digital tuners requires the signal to be not too high and not too low to work properly. For analog tuners, a weak signal will provide a noisy signal, but a signal that is too strong will produce a ghost effect. Both analog and digital requires a goldilock strength for the signal, so using the best cable could affect in a bad way.

Do not use amps if you do not need them. This means if the signal is enough for the cable modem and TV, an amp is not needed. Also do not need an amp every 100 feet. Amps in an RF setup for TV and cable modems actually hurts performance because it changes the phase of the signal.

 

[Emulex]

monoprice rg-6 is a joke. total joke cable quality.

The rg-6 i ran for OTA was some commercial stuff - buddy worked there did a custom fit job since every foot wasted (extra cable). This stuff is used on top of skyscrapers with custom end clamps designed to withstand 100+mph winds for years (think about how it is up there). It was night and day difference. Never use splitters (-3db) to connect two pieces to make it long enough. If you do use splitters blonder-tongue; or better yet TAPS if you can afford it.

signal's went from 70-80 to 95-100 just by doing it perfectly. which was with quality parts and probably professional install.

 

[Howard]

Usually RG-6 includes shielding

Usually?

If you worry about interference with the RG-6 and the Ethernet cable, twist or braid them together. The 45 degrees should be enough to minimize interference even if the shielding is not properly grounded.

How does this work? Are you thinking of balanced signal wiring?

A good crimper costs $50 and up. Get one with a ratchet action.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=360-680
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=360-688

so using the best cable could affect in a bad way.

Seriously? You use mediocre cable so that your signal isn't too strong?

 

[electroju]

Howard, RG-6 is the specification of the cable. Fine RG-6 has some shielding but to me is nothing until a higher grade is selected with four shielding layers.

Braiding the wire minimizes any signal being induced. Balance cable is different. Balance cable uses a positive phase and negative phase with ground. These are compared and does instant canceling of noise. Braiding cable minimizes induction compared to placing the two or more cables beside each other. It is the same scheme used to place two or more inductors on a PCB. The inductors have to be orientated to minimize any induction. Inductors should be place at 90 degrees from each other. Putting them at 45 degrees could be done, but there might be some induction. Putting parallel cables at some offset is good way to reduce signal crosstalk.

Digital tuners have a narrow range where they work at their best. If it is exceeded, they will not work or the output will seem distorted. Digital tuners are not just used for digital TV or ATSC. They are used for NTSC and PAL too. I suggest upgrade the cable when the signal output is not high enough for the tuner to work and the cleaned connectors are not helping. The best cable can not help if the main node is not providing enough. If is not broken then do not fix it.

My crimper cost $60 and it is not wimpy as the crimper that you pointed. It has over sized handles that are padded. My hands do not strain when doing crimping. It is the same quality that cable technicians or contractors uses. The following is a crimper that I use.

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/datacomm/tools/crimpmaster.jsp

 

[Howard]

Howard, RG-6 is the specification of the cable. Fine RG-6 has some shielding but to me is nothing until a higher grade is selected with four shielding layers.

Strange that you don't know the best RG-6 cables actually only have two layers of shielding.

Braiding the wire minimizes any signal being induced. Balance cable is different. Balance cable uses a positive phase and negative phase with ground. These are compared and does instant canceling of noise. Braiding cable minimizes induction compared to placing the two or more cables beside each other. It is the same scheme used to place two or more inductors on a PCB. The inductors have to be orientated to minimize any induction. Inductors should be place at 90 degrees from each other. Putting them at 45 degrees could be done, but there might be some induction. Putting parallel cables at some offset is good way to reduce signal crosstalk.

How does braiding the wire minimize any signal being "induced"? Also, balanced cable doesn't necessarily have to have the signals opposite in phase.

Inductors are placed at 90 degrees to minimize the interaction of their magnetic fields, not to suppress any sort of induced noise in other circuits.

Digital tuners have a narrow range where they work at their best. If it is exceeded, they will not work or the output will seem distorted.

Why would good cable allow the signal to be too strong?

My crimper cost $60 and it is not wimpy as the crimper that you pointed. It has over sized handles that are padded. My hands do not strain when doing crimping. It is the same quality that cable technicians or contractors uses. The following is a crimper that I use.

I have the crimper I posted and it is not at all wimpy. Yours has soft rubber inlays, nice.

 

[Modelworks]

You really should not be crimping coax , use compression fittings. Crimping is something done for temporary work. I would never use crimped connectors for a whole house . It deforms the cable conductors and shielding and is not waterproof.

 

[electroju]

You really should not be crimping coax , use compression fittings. Crimping is something done for temporary work. I would never use crimped connectors for a whole house . It deforms the cable conductors and shielding and is not waterproof.

Where I live, it is the desert. My cable provider's technicians that are certified uses crimping. RF cable should not be treated as audio cable. If crimping is right, you will not be able to remove the connector. Sure you might benefit to a spring like connector that puts a constant pressure on the wire or braid to handle extreme temperature changes and high humidity. Compression for coaxial cable does not make the whole cable waterproof. Water can still get in from where it is screwed on to.

All mechanical connections are temporary, so it matters how well the connection is done. Mechanical connections can be equal or better than soldering. I suggest do not go too crazy when dealing with RF type of connections. You are going too crazy saying that crimping screws up the picture. You should care more about the components that are receiving the signal instead of the cable. If you see a clear picture, why are you spending the money on the cable where it impacts at the very, very, very least in the setup.

Strange that you don't know the best RG-6 cables actually only have two layers of shielding.

Actually, the best RG-6 has four layers of shielding.

How does braiding the wire minimize any signal being "induced"? Also, balanced cable doesn't necessarily have to have the signals opposite in phase.

Inductors are placed at 90 degrees to minimize the interaction of their magnetic fields, not to suppress any sort of induced noise in other circuits.

Easy, the pairs of cable have to be in parallel for a signal to be induced. Braiding cable is an old way to minimize noise. It acts like an inductor to minimize the effects of an antenna and it is at a different angle.

Balance cable is in fact uses two signals that are out of phase of each other. One of the wires are inverted which means out of phase. Inverting audio is the same as 180 degrees out of phase. A simple search on the internet or your local library will tell you this.

Stop asking questions that you can easily look up the information your self.

Why would good cable allow the signal to be too strong?

This is RF and not Ethernet or speaker cable. A strong signal for today's tuners does not like the strong signal compared to older versions. Also today's tuners includes automatic gain control to increase the output if it is a little weak. Since these tuners are digital, so noise it not as much as a factor compared to analog tuners. Analog tuners have more head room, but digital tuners does not. Again is best to have less of a signal than to have more.

 

[Howard]

Actually, the best RG-6 has four layers of shielding.

Easy, the pairs of cable have to be in parallel for a signal to be induced. Braiding cable is an old way to minimize noise. It acts like an inductor to minimize the effects of an antenna and it is at a different angle.

Balance cable is in fact uses two signals that are out of phase of each other. One of the wires are inverted which means out of phase. Inverting audio is the same as 180 degrees out of phase. A simple search on the internet or your local library will tell you this.

Stop asking questions that you can easily look up the information your self.

This is RF and not Ethernet or speaker cable. A strong signal for today's tuners does not like the strong signal compared to older versions. Also today's tuners includes automatic gain control to increase the output if it is a little weak. Since these tuners are digital, so noise it not as much as a factor compared to analog tuners. Analog tuners have more head room, but digital tuners does not. Again is best to have less of a signal than to have more.

First of all, the burden of proof lies on you since you are making the claims. But, since it looks like you won't bother, then:

1) Find me a quad-shield cable with better specs than this: http://www.cablek.com/client_file/upload/document/1694A.pdf
2) Balanced must have its signals out of phase? http://sound.westhost.com/articles/balanced-2.htm#s1

Show me the spec sheet for a tuner that can, in some situations, require attentuation of the input signal relative to the output of the source (excepting the case of overeager external amplification).

 

[electroju]

First of all, the burden of proof lies on you since you are making the claims. But, since it looks like you won't bother, then:

1) Find me a quad-shield cable with better specs than this: http://www.cablek.com/client_file/upload/document/1694A.pdf
2) Balanced must have its signals out of phase? http://sound.westhost.com/articles/balanced-2.htm#s1

Show me the spec sheet for a tuner that can, in some situations, require attentuation of the input signal relative to the output of the source (excepting the case of overeager external amplification).

Who cares if you can find something better. It is like comparing AMD and Intel processors. One is better than the other for certain applications. It seems you want the best of the best or you are perfectionist. Being perfect brings out the worst. Your hunt for perfection is bring out in the worst in you.

Actually if you read the schematics. All of them are hooked up to the positive and negative of the amp or in this case the OP-AMP. If you can not read schematics, then any information you read at that page and information that I am trying to telling you, is irrelevant. Normal amps grounds the negative, so this sets it up in unbalance. I said nothing about impedance. Yes impedance is part of balance connections. I said by braiding the two cables will minimize induction. Your point that you are trying to cross is irrelevant to the original poster. If you want me to say balance is impedance. Then yes, but this setup it is not balance at all. It is way to minimize induction.

Since I am a new user at this forum, I read nothing about bad remarks from you. If the existing cable works just fine or great why upgrade to something better.Again better brings the worst.

I am done explaining it to you. One more time, I will ignore your posts.

 

[Howard]

sigh

You said that quad shield is the best, now you are saying "who cares if something is the best"?

And again, it was you that said that balanced wiring required the signals to be out of phase, which irked me because your analogy used something that you didn't perfectly understand.

Am I being an asshole? Sure. Do you have something to gain from this? You tell me.

 

[wirednuts]

thomas and betts makes some awesome compression connectors and tools too. i have one of these- http://www.amazon.com/Snap-N-Seal-Co.../dp/B000X0L5EC

and i use it with universal fittings- http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Betts-S...=pd_sim_misc_2

cant really go wrong with that combination. they work on single or quad shield cable... i know if youre doing a job somewhere or wiring a house, you would want to get the specific connectors for the exact wire youre using, but i havent found any coax cable yet that i cant get the universal ones to work on. they just work, with great results every time. that snap n seal tool is by far the quickest/easiest way to put ends on coax.

i dont like crimp connectors either.... theyre ok for temp use but pretty much shitty for anything permanent. imo anyway. we would never use crimped ends at work (on houses we did, but even that was shitty)

 

[Mark R]

Braiding cables does not 'minimize induction' (whatever that means - presumably it means minimize mutual inductance).

Cables are braided together when it is desirable that both cables experience the same noise. The classic example is that of a balanced line. In this case, the two conductors in the balanced line circuit are braided together, so that any external interference is coupled into both conductors.

Because each conductor in a balanced line receives the same induced noise (and because each conductor in a balanced line has the same impedance - the definition of a balanced line), the externally induced noise appears only as a common-mode signal, and hence will be rejected by the differential line receiver.

In fact, for cables with very high sensitivity to externally induced noise (e.g. 10 gigabit ethernet), cables specifically must not be braided together. Cat 6a cable has spacer ribs moulded into its outer insulation, specifically to stop the cable getting too close, or getting braided with another cable.

 

[Gibson486]

Who cares if you can find something better. It is like comparing AMD and Intel processors. One is better than the other for certain applications. It seems you want the best of the best or you are perfectionist. Being perfect brings out the worst. Your hunt for perfection is bring out in the worst in you.

Actually if you read the schematics. All of them are hooked up to the positive and negative of the amp or in this case the OP-AMP. If you can not read schematics, then any information you read at that page and information that I am trying to telling you, is irrelevant. Normal amps grounds the negative, so this sets it up in unbalance. I said nothing about impedance. Yes impedance is part of balance connections. I said by braiding the two cables will minimize induction. Your point that you are trying to cross is irrelevant to the original poster. If you want me to say balance is impedance. Then yes, but this setup it is not balance at all. It is way to minimize induction.

Since I am a new user at this forum, I read nothing about bad remarks from you. If the existing cable works just fine or great why upgrade to something better.Again better brings the worst.

I am done explaining it to you. One more time, I will ignore your posts.

How does braiding cables "minimize induction"? I think you have it wrong. It minimizes noise due to electrical fields since the braiding the cables make sure the source and return path noise are always canceling each other out. you have two elelctrical fields of almost equal amplitude and frequency opposing paths. It leads to canceling out. If you are referring to reducing EMI...well...the "I" stands for "Interference", not "Induction".

 

[alkemyst]

You really should not be crimping coax , use compression fittings. Crimping is something done for temporary work. I would never use crimped connectors for a whole house . It deforms the cable conductors and shielding and is not waterproof.

It was the way it was done for years and years. A proper crimp is fine.

Also IRT running the cables. Ballasts from flourescent lights and dimmer controls are more noise potentials than running cables along each other.

 

[Modelworks]

It was the way it was done for years and years. A proper crimp is fine.

It was the way it was done until something better came along. Crimping was easy to do in the field and can work, but it is not the recommended way to terminate cables today and many cable companies require their techs to replace crimp connectors if they see them.

 

[alkemyst]

damn...good luck with that. installers around here will not touch anything but the line they are sent for unless you are paying for it.

 

[Modelworks]

Where I live, it is the desert. My cable provider's technicians that are certified uses crimping. RF cable should not be treated as audio cable. If crimping is right, you will not be able to remove the connector. Sure you might benefit to a spring like connector that puts a constant pressure on the wire or braid to handle extreme temperature changes and high humidity. Compression for coaxial cable does not make the whole cable waterproof. Water can still get in from where it is screwed on to.

Surprised to hear a cable company still using crimping. All the ones here require a tech to replace crimp connection if they encounter them. Most telecom industrial supply do not even sell crimp connectors anymore. Not sure what you mean by spring as compression doesn't use anything but a plastic sleeve with o-ring and metal connector. The connections are watertight, proven by the many distribution amps in pedestals that have been flooded and continue working.

All mechanical connections are temporary, so it matters how well the connection is done.

The problem with crimping is it is very easy to make a bad connection. Compression almost requires it be done right because the connectors are so close tolerance that they do not assemble without being installed correctly.

Mechanical connections can be equal or better than soldering. I suggest do not go too crazy when dealing with RF type of connections. You are going too crazy saying that crimping screws up the picture.

RF counts more in connection quality than any other form of signal. It is the most sensitive to poor connections. Crimping can push the outer shield into the inner insulator making the cable change impedance at the connector or worse shorting the cable .

You should care more about the components that are receiving the signal instead of the cable. If you see a clear picture, why are you spending the money on the cable where it impacts at the very, very, very least in the setup.

What good is a $5K TV if the signal feeding it is 50% original signal, 25% neighbors lawn mower, 25% noise from power lines overhead ?