Runners/joggers check in...

[Rogue]

I'm in the Army Reserve and have a PT test coming up next month. I can always pass my run, however, I'm applying to become a Warrant Officer and will have to run 4-miles every other day for a month while I'm at school, so I'm starting my train up.

I purchased a pair of Nike Air Vapors several months ago to start running in. Anyway, I am training to run 2.5 miles at the moment and for some reason, my lower back kills me when I run. This is the first pair of shoes I've owned that have done this. The two pairs of shoes I ran in previously where Nike Air Max '95s (best running shoes I've ever run in, but they were on the heavy side) and a pair of Addidas (can't remember the type). Anyway, my question is, what about these shoes, if anything is causing this lower back pain when I run? Any ideas?

 

[KLin]

Do you do any lower back stretches before you start running?

 

Don't know about those shoes, but I :heart: Asics. I've been a runner for almost seven years (three years varsity cross country in HS, almost four years of casual running in college) and I won't buy anything but Asics for running.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: KLin
Do you do any lower back stretches before you start running?

Yes. The Army physical fitness training manual would call it the lower back stretch, where you're seated on the ground and cross your right foot over your left knee and turn your torso to face the right with your left elbow on your right knee.

 

[xXped0thugXx]

not enough cushion or heal support. I found that running 3 miles everyday getting ready for the Marine Corps PFT that my shoes which are kinda on their last legs give me lower back pain. This can be attributed to bad arches on the shoes or heal support, in my case. I bought new running shoes which feel much better and it went away.

 

[vi edit]

Tough to say without knowing your size (height & weight), your foot width, and your typical running form (pronator, supinator, neutral).

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Tough to say without knowing your size (height & weight), your foot width, and your typical running form (pronator, supinator, neutral).

Let's see if I can answer these as well as I can:

Height = 5'8" (68")
Weight = 170-175 (decent muscle composition, about 15% body fat)
Foot Width = usually wear a wide in a combat boot
Running form = usually the outside rear edge of the heel of my shoes wears down first

 

[Rogue]

BTW, these were the best running shoes I ever ran in:

Air Max '95

As stated earlier, they were a little on the heavy side, but I was running sub 12:00 two-miles coming out of basic training with my fastest time on those shoes being 11:10 for our final PT test. Just so you know I used to be a hell of a runner. I turn 29 today, so that was 10 years ago and I've slowed down to about a 15:00 to 16:00 minute two-mile now, but that's without training for it at all.

 

[austin316]

Originally posted by: Rogue
I'm in the Army Reserve and have a PT test coming up next month. I can always pass my run, however, I'm applying to become a Warrant Officer and will have to run 4-miles every other day for a month while I'm at school, so I'm starting my train up.

I purchased a pair of Nike Air Vapors several months ago to start running in. Anyway, I am training to run 2.5 miles at the moment and for some reason, my lower back kills me when I run. This is the first pair of shoes I've owned that have done this. The two pairs of shoes I ran in previously where Nike Air Max '95s (best running shoes I've ever run in, but they were on the heavy side) and a pair of Addidas (can't remember the type). Anyway, my question is, what about these shoes, if anything is causing this lower back pain when I run? Any ideas?

It could depend on what type of runner you are. Maybe you over or under pronate. Your best bet is to goto a specialty running store and they will hook you up with what you need. If you want to do this yourself, get a piece of paper, take your foot, soak it in water and then step on the piece of paper. Your footprint will demonstrate what type of foot you have. Thus, depending on the footprint, you might need a stability shoe.

 

[b0mbrman]

Running in formation is a killer on the knees. I already have old man knees from my few years of doing it...

Get good shoes and replace them often. Get a couple pairs of the same style because you may get them soaked (through sweat or rain) so you should alternate shoes when that happens. Go to a fancy running store and have them watch you walk so you can figure out just what sort of foot/gait you have and what shoe would suit you best.

Are you flat-footed?

Oh yeah...and stretching before running is over-rated. Do an active warm up (like jogging at a 4-5 mph pace) and you'll be much better off. Stretching after running, however, is where it counts.

 

[austin316]

Pronation Explained, along with another way to see what type of shoe you need.

Pronation Explained
When you run or walk, you land on the outside edge of your foot and roll inward. This entirely normal inward rolling is called pronation. For most runners, the pronation stops at a healthy point. However, some runners roll inward too much. This excessive inward rolling is called overpronation. Runners who overpronate should wear motion-control shoes, which contain special foams and devices that are designed to limit overpronation.

How can you tell if you overpronate? Here's the easiest way. Take off your shoes, whether your normal work-a-day shoes or your running shoes, and put them on a table with the heels facing out toward you. Now study the heels. If they are fairly straight and tall, you do not have an overpronation problem. If the heels tilt inward (toward the arches), on the other hand, you are probably an overpronator, and should try motion-control shoes. Many (but not all) overpronators are bigger, heavier runners with flat feet.

Link for the wet the foot trick

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Running in formation is often worse than running at your own pace. Not only do you have to run at someone else's pace but cadence and the shuffling as to not step on anyone with long strides is there.

Just try to make sure you can get proper padding and arch support and let us know if that works to alieviate some pain.

 

[RaDragon]

Had you known, you should've PM'd me before you bought shoes, especially Nike running shoes.

Vapors are lightweight running shoes for neutral runners. They have minimum stability correction and medium cushioning. With the limited information you've provided (e.g., shoe wear), sounds like you're a supinator, but the wear on your shoes alone isn't the best way to make a prognosis.

Is there a way to return the Vapors? I would actually recommend that you try running in Air Kantara II's.

If shoes weren't the problem, it might have something to do with your running posture. When running, try not to hunch your back, but at the same time, relax the shoulders. Your arms shouldn't be too high up (unless you're a sprinter ) and don't clench your fist too tight. Keep your head up, but watch the road and try to breathe normally (e.g., keep your breathing steady, don't hyperventilate!)

I run in the 'Nike Shox 2:45' albeit me having slight pronation. I stretch after runs (rarely before) once my muscles have warmed up. That doesn't work for everyone, though.

p.s., I work part-time for Nike's Club Run LA, hence the knowledge on Nike Running related products. If you want, you can PM me and I can answer other shoe questions you have. I'm not a shoe salesperson by trade though.

 

[b0mbrman]

geekfitness.com is also a good place to ask

BTW, what are you going to warrant officer school for?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Rogue
BTW, these were the best running shoes I ever ran in:

Air Max '95

As stated earlier, they were a little on the heavy side, but I was running sub 12:00 two-miles coming out of basic training with my fastest time on those shoes being 11:10 for our final PT test. Just so you know I used to be a hell of a runner. I turn 29 today, so that was 10 years ago and I've slowed down to about a 15:00 to 16:00 minute two-mile now, but that's without training for it at all.

Upper 16's to low 17's for 3 miles, daily, would be a "hell of a runner". Try training in sand or a freshly plowed field, that way you won't even notice the Back pain. That or maybe try a different pair of shoes...

 

[SWScorch]

If I recall correctly, those are shoes meant for light, fast runners. You more than likely would do better in stability shoes.

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Had you known, you should've PM'd me before you bought shoes, especially Nike running shoes.

Vapors are lightweight running shoes for neutral runners. They have minimum stability correction and medium cushioning. With the limited information you've provided (e.g., shoe wear), sounds like you're a supinator, but the wear on your shoes alone isn't the best way to make a prognosis.

Is there a way to return the Vapors? I would actually recommend that you try running in Air Kantara II's.

If shoes weren't the problem, it might have something to do with your running posture. When running, try not to hunch your back, but at the same time, relax the shoulders. Your arms shouldn't be too high up (unless you're a sprinter ) and don't clench your fist too tight. Keep your head up, but watch the road and try to breathe normally (e.g., keep your breathing steady, don't hyperventilate!)

I run in the 'Nike Shox 2:45' albeit me having slight pronation. I stretch after runs (rarely before) once my muscles have warmed up. That doesn't work for everyone, though.

p.s., I work part-time for Nike's Club Run LA, hence the knowledge on Nike Running related products. If you want, you can PM me and I can answer other shoe questions you have. I'm not a shoe salesperson by trade though.

He brings up a good point. keep your head up, relax your arms, when running distances let your arms fall like they were limp, no sh!t it helps you run better my Drill Instructor in boot camp taught me this. Try to land on the balls of your feet and not flat footed, could be a major attribute to your back problem.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
geekfitness.com is also a good place to ask

BTW, what are you going to warrant officer school for?

Re-classing from Military Police to Signal (251A Information Systems Technician). I am a GS-11 for an installation DOIM and have reached the pinnacle of my career as an MP. I am currently a Staff Sergeant and don't want to become a pencil pushing, behind the lines type of MP like I would be if I stuck with it. Anyway, since I work in the IT field, going Warrant and doing what I do on the civilian side of the Army was a logical choice at this point in my career.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Had you known, you should've PM'd me before you bought shoes, especially Nike running shoes.

Vapors are lightweight running shoes for neutral runners. They have minimum stability correction and medium cushioning. With the limited information you've provided (e.g., shoe wear), sounds like you're a supinator, but the wear on your shoes alone isn't the best way to make a prognosis.

Is there a way to return the Vapors? I would actually recommend that you try running in Air Kantara II's.

If shoes weren't the problem, it might have something to do with your running posture. When running, try not to hunch your back, but at the same time, relax the shoulders. Your arms shouldn't be too high up (unless you're a sprinter ) and don't clench your fist too tight. Keep your head up, but watch the road and try to breathe normally (e.g., keep your breathing steady, don't hyperventilate!)

I run in the 'Nike Shox 2:45' albeit me having slight pronation. I stretch after runs (rarely before) once my muscles have warmed up. That doesn't work for everyone, though.

p.s., I work part-time for Nike's Club Run LA, hence the knowledge on Nike Running related products. If you want, you can PM me and I can answer other shoe questions you have. I'm not a shoe salesperson by trade though.

He brings up a good point. keep your head up, relax your arms, when running distances let your arms fall like they were limp, no sh!t it helps you run better my Drill Instructor in boot camp taught me this. Try to land on the balls of your feet and not flat footed, could be a major attribute to your back problem.

I was taught the same thing. They used to say to run limp wristed because clenching your hands just takes up oxygen that should be going to other parts of the body. I'm a heel-to-toe runner if I had to do a self-analysis. I pound the heels of shoes pretty good when I run, afterall, that's what all that technology is for in the heel, right?

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Had you known, you should've PM'd me before you bought shoes, especially Nike running shoes.

Vapors are lightweight running shoes for neutral runners. They have minimum stability correction and medium cushioning. With the limited information you've provided (e.g., shoe wear), sounds like you're a supinator, but the wear on your shoes alone isn't the best way to make a prognosis.

Is there a way to return the Vapors? I would actually recommend that you try running in Air Kantara II's.

If shoes weren't the problem, it might have something to do with your running posture. When running, try not to hunch your back, but at the same time, relax the shoulders. Your arms shouldn't be too high up (unless you're a sprinter ) and don't clench your fist too tight. Keep your head up, but watch the road and try to breathe normally (e.g., keep your breathing steady, don't hyperventilate!)

I run in the 'Nike Shox 2:45' albeit me having slight pronation. I stretch after runs (rarely before) once my muscles have warmed up. That doesn't work for everyone, though.

p.s., I work part-time for Nike's Club Run LA, hence the knowledge on Nike Running related products. If you want, you can PM me and I can answer other shoe questions you have. I'm not a shoe salesperson by trade though.

He brings up a good point. keep your head up, relax your arms, when running distances let your arms fall like they were limp, no sh!t it helps you run better my Drill Instructor in boot camp taught me this. Try to land on the balls of your feet and not flat footed, could be a major attribute to your back problem.

I was taught the same thing. They used to say to run limp wristed because clenching your hands just takes up oxygen that should be going to other parts of the body. I'm a heel-to-toe runner if I had to do a self-analysis. I pound the heels of shoes pretty good when I run, afterall, that's what all that technology is for in the heel, right?

Right, so try and get some good heal support, maybe even a cross training sneaker would do , just try it before the fitness test, see if it works. Being a infantry men, its all about support and comfort because we are constantly humping the mortar system, 20k-30k humps etc , I've never thought shoes/boots were so important.

 

[RaDragon]

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
She brings up a good point. keep your head up, relax your arms, when running distances let your arms fall like they were limp, no sh!t it helps you run better my Drill Instructor in boot camp taught me this. Try to land on the balls of your feet and not flat footed, could be a major attribute to your back problem.

Fixed.


Also, xXped0thugXx brought up a great point about keeping your arms limp; however, don't keep them too limp, still use your arms and "pump" them as you run. It actually helps you move "forward". The key is not to put too much exertion with your arms. Longer strides isn't always the best solution, too. Quick short strides (unless you're a sprinter) are better for your body in the long run.

 

[b0mbrman]

Here's the form I like best:

head: up and looking straight
shoulders: relaxed
arms: bent at 135° angle, kept close to body and moving forward and back--never across the body
hands: thumb on second knuckle, as if very loosely holding a roll of quarters (sound familiar? )
legs: focus on turnover rather than strides...this becomes harder when running in formation
feet: balls!

While we can't all be skinny, we can all run skinny

 

[xXped0thugXx]

Originally posted by: RaDragon

Originally posted by: xXped0thugXx
She brings up a good point. keep your head up, relax your arms, when running distances let your arms fall like they were limp, no sh!t it helps you run better my Drill Instructor in boot camp taught me this. Try to land on the balls of your feet and not flat footed, could be a major attribute to your back problem.

Fixed.


Also, xXped0thugXx brought up a great point about keeping your arms limp; however, don't keep them too limp, still use your arms and "pump" them as you run. It actually helps you move "forward". The key is not to put too much exertion with your arms. Longer strides isn't always the best solution, too. Quick short strides (unless you're a sprinter) are better for your body in the long run.

sorry didnt know we had women here hope no offense was taken

 

[screw3d]

There is this page where you can input all the info about your feet and it will come up with shoe recommendations.. I can't find it anymore

 

[SWScorch]

Originally posted by: screw3d
There is this page where you can input all the info about your feet and it will come up with shoe recommendations.. I can't find it anymore

they tend to suck anyway. The best bet for anyone is to just go to a running store and have them check out your feet and your old shoes and have them watch you run. They are experts and will point you in the right direction.