[Rumored] Sony Is Working On A ‘PlayStation 4.5’ [kotaku]

[mysticjbyrd]

30fps at medium settings should be easily doable for something like 290X at 4k. I'm not sure why the replies here are using 4k ultra results from graphic card reviews.

4k 30fps with polaris chip with the same die size as the PS4 gpu or even more since the CPU can be shrunken as well sounds pretty believable. The hitch should be with RAM size.

Doable in like two years from now, and by then the graphical requirements will have increased. They will never produce a $600 console capable of 4k, at least not in the foreseeable future.

Besides, 4k from 10 feet away is damn near pointless!

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

 

[poofyhairguy]

Maybe this will be a very good thing. PS4 R&D is what gave us ACEs and other future Directx12 technology. Maybe PC gaming needs console R&D to move forward in 2016. Maybe we need a PS4.5 to have a Directx13 one day.

 

[frozentundra123456]

"Doable" is one thing, but doable in the console price structure is another matter. Even at 14 nm I think it will take a top of the line dgpu for 4k, 60fps at decent quality. Even though consoles will be more efficient, I just dont see that much power in a console until the true next generation. As usual, I think expectations are getting out of hand for Zen/HBM/14nm. And if all the performance lives up to the hype, I think prices will be a lot higher than the AMD fans are anticipating.

 

[CakeMonster]

This is a die shrink + HDMI2.0 interface for 4k movies/video streaming.

Why anyone would think that there is a graphical upgrade at this point is beyond me.

 

[Silverforce11]

"Doable" is one thing, but doable in the console price structure is another matter. Even at 14 nm I think it will take a top of the line dgpu for 4k, 60fps at decent quality. Even though consoles will be more efficient, I just dont see that much power in a console until the true next generation. As usual, I think expectations are getting out of hand for Zen/HBM/14nm. And if all the performance lives up to the hype, I think prices will be a lot higher than the AMD fans are anticipating.

Fury X 4K ultra is around 30-35 fps in modern games.
As soon as you dial down some settings, you'll approach ~45 fps or so, very playable. High vs Ultra is visually not that much of an improvement in many games.

Polaris 10 is potentially Fury X+.

Add console efficiency, shared memory pool HSA to increase performance, it will be easy to do 4K 60 fps with optimized games. Many features simply add little to visuals but drop performance, consoles will be a trade-off design, it's certainly not going to be running VXAO for example.

How much would it cost?

Polaris 10 is ~232mm2. Not huge. Low-midrange.
8GB HMB2.
8 core Zen will likely be around 120-140mm2 (compare to Skylake 120mm2, with half as the iGPU).

A console with that kind of performance profile, $599 and it will sell-out. Guaranteed. Competitive console gamers alone will pay for that to get higher FPS or resolution in online shooters.

 

[gamervivek]

Doable in like two years from now, and by then the graphical requirements will have increased. They will never produce a $600 console capable of 4k, at least not in the foreseeable future.

Besides, 4k from 10 feet away is damn near pointless!

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

And? In two years time you'd have better chips as well.
Anyway, using 4k ultra benchmarks when ultra settings are usually barely any better than the high settings to claim that a 4k console can't come into being is ludicrous.

 

[jackstar7]

I'm interested in seeing what a PS4K can do.

 

[3DVagabond]

Guys the PS 4.5/VR thing is going to be another Sega 32x type of add on/expansion, mark my words.

:0
:0

Sig worthy.

 

[SPBHM]

only GPU?

I'm seeing that "Fury X" style massive GPU with 1.6GHz Jaguar CPU :\
but I supposed if they want to keep easy compatibility with the PS4 for lower res versions of the same game it would be the only viable path.

 

[Silverforce11]

only GPU?

I'm seeing that "Fury X" style massive GPU with 1.6GHz Jaguar CPU :\
but I supposed if they want to keep easy compatibility with the PS4 for lower res versions of the same game it would be the only viable path.

That would be full stupid.

Has to be Zen CPU else it's fail.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm interested in seeing what a PS4K can do.

Saw this on another site as well, good name IMO

This wouldn't be a mid cycle upgrade or just an addon. I expect the next gen consoles to hit the market in 2017~18 time frame, would be pleasantly surprised if its 2017, cause the last cycle was unexpectedly long, if only for me. Five or six years is optimum IMO & going forward that'd be the norm, should anything untoward not happen to AMD, at least it ought to be.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

And? In two years time you'd have better chips as well.
Anyway, using 4k ultra benchmarks when ultra settings are usually barely any better than the high settings to claim that a 4k console can't come into being is ludicrous.

And then they need time to develop the apu! Then, again, you have the huge cost of putting top of the line hardware into a console.

You sit far back from a tv, about ten feet. At that distance, the difference between 1080p and 4k is minimal! It makes literally no sense to put hardware into a console that can properly run games at 4k!

 

[frozentundra123456]

Fury X 4K ultra is around 30-35 fps in modern games.
As soon as you dial down some settings, you'll approach ~45 fps or so, very playable. High vs Ultra is visually not that much of an improvement in many games.

Polaris 10 is potentially Fury X+.

Add console efficiency, shared memory pool HSA to increase performance, it will be easy to do 4K 60 fps with optimized games. Many features simply add little to visuals but drop performance, consoles will be a trade-off design, it's certainly not going to be running VXAO for example.

How much would it cost?

Polaris 10 is ~232mm2. Not huge. Low-midrange.
8GB HMB2.
8 core Zen will likely be around 120-140mm2 (compare to Skylake 120mm2, with half as the iGPU).

A console with that kind of performance profile, $599 and it will sell-out. Guaranteed. Competitive console gamers alone will pay for that to get higher FPS or resolution in online shooters.

Yes, and Fury X for the gpu *alone* is 600.00 plus. One pays for the performance, development, validation, etc, etc., not just the die itself. If you think a new cpu with better performance, a new gpu with that kind of performance, both on a new process with unknown (probably not very good initially) yields and expensive HBM is going to go into a console at 500.00 or 600.00, good luck, you may be right, but I seriously doubt it for at least a year or two. Weren't there even rumors that any new HBM dgpus are delayed until 2017? You have a very....optimistic view of price, availability, and performance of Zen, HBM2, and 14nm dgpus. You may be right on every count, but then again, we havent seen any of them in a consumer product yet, much less the price such leading edge tech will command.

 

[exar333]

That's not what's happening though... MS is replacing the XBone with generic Windows PCs and will shove console-like gaming down PC gamers throats like they've done with Windows 10. It's gonna be a shitshow, especially if they start doing things like blocking Steam.

Not the biggest MS fan, but Windows gaming issues are hardly their fault. They are at fault for some poor win10 app purchases, but they will lose Windows if they force everything thru apps. I guess I don't see an issue....Xbox to the App Store is a natural convergence as long as they don't limit that....

 

[frozentundra123456]

That's not what's happening though... MS is replacing the XBone with generic Windows PCs and will shove console-like gaming down PC gamers throats like they've done with Windows 10. It's gonna be a shitshow, especially if they start doing things like blocking Steam.

They cant really "block" steam per se. But they definitely are trying to force distribution of new games through the windows store, which could lessen the new games available on steam. They could also keep the prices higher longer. I definitely see this as a dangerous trend, especially since MS controls the OS as well. The only reason I am not more concerned is that MS is so inept at PC gaming I just dont think they can do it effectively.

 

[jackstar7]

If MS tried to block steam and/or origin I think PC gaming would say goodbye to Windows.

 

[SPBHM]

That would be full stupid.

Has to be Zen CPU else it's fail.

well, I don't think so, I think it would achieve the target that is running the same games at a higher res, while making it super simple to run the same game at 1080P on the older consoles!?
a new CPU would add complexity I think for them to adapt the games to the old version, since it has more potential for settings that would even differentiate things that can affect gameplay more clearly

If MS tried to block steam and/or origin I think PC gaming would say goodbye to Windows.

specially now with Vulkan the transition would probably be pretty quick.
MS is not stupid.

 

[itsmydamnation]

well, I don't think so, I think it would achieve the target that is running the same games at a higher res, while making it super simple to run the same game at 1080P on the older consoles!?
a new CPU would add complexity I think for them to adapt the games to the old version, since it has more potential for settings that would even differentiate things that can affect gameplay more clearly



specially now with Vulkan the transition would probably be pretty quick.
MS is not stupid.

Zen is 14nm based and is based off 4 cores a compute block, it could possible be cheaper for Sony to use 2 compute blocks of Zen then it is to port CAT to 14nm? The issue would be more around uncore compatibility then anything, but if they are doing anything more then a die shrink/GPU i/o update it makes no sense to stick with CAT over Zen.

 

[NTMBK]

Zen is 14nm based and is based off 4 cores a compute block, it could possible be cheaper for Sony to use 2 compute blocks of Zen then it is to port CAT to 14nm? The issue would be more around uncore compatibility then anything, but if they are doing anything more then a die shrink/GPU i/o update it makes no sense to stick with CAT over Zen.

Jaguar is heavily synthesised and designed to be easily ported, and Sony are no doubt expecting to sell millions of units. The savings in die area would probably pay for the work in shrinking Jaguar.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Jaguar is heavily synthesised and designed to be easily ported, and Sony are no doubt expecting to sell millions of units. The savings in die area would probably pay for the work in shrinking Jaguar.

At the trade off of revenue and margin, they can sell a 4.5 at a higher price then just a 4k enabled but same cpu /gpu. more rez needs more CPU and at that point CAT core becomes less attractive, its clock limit by its architecture and short pipeline.

 

[NTMBK]

At the trade off of revenue and margin, they can sell a 4.5 at a higher price then just a 4k enabled but same cpu /gpu. more rez needs more CPU and at that point CAT core becomes less attractive, its clock limit by its architecture and short pipeline.

Hmm, good point. If it won't clock any higher then you may well be right. I was thinking that 14nm would allow for higher clocks, I had forgotten that it is likely architecture limited.

 

[monstercameron]

That would be full stupid.

Has to be Zen CPU else it's fail.

It might lose backwards compatibility if not jaguar based. Remember that zen is a different uarch even though it is x86.

 

[Gloomy]

If this gpu has to fit into a ps4 size box, its gotta be sub b 120w.

And if that delivers 4k30, then it is clear over 2x more efficient than current gpus.

It speaks well for the next lineup.

 

[sm625]

We are two years away from when the early stages of production of a next gen console would begin if it were on a 5 year cadence. A worthy APU with Zen+HBM2 will not even be available for at least a year. So this really points to PS5 rather than PS4.5.

 

[Pottuvoi]

This is a die shrink + HDMI2.0 interface for 4k movies/video streaming.

Why anyone would think that there is a graphical upgrade at this point is beyond me.

Really hoping for 3-layer Blu-ray support and HDR-output to match ultra 4k bluray specs.
Otherwise agreed, it's most likely just small more power efficient ps4.

If there will be HDR ouput support, we might see some improvement in some games. ('Only' tone mapping change.)