[Rumored] Sony Is Working On A ‘PlayStation 4.5’ [kotaku]

[R0H1T]

Sony is currently planning a new version of the PS4 with increased graphical power and games running at 4K resolution, developer sources tell Kotaku.

We don’t know whether current PS4 owners will be able to upgrade or if they’ll have to buy an entirely new device to benefit from this power boost, but from what we hear, Sony has started briefing developers.

Based on conversations with developers who have spoken with Sony, this ‘PS4.5’ will include an upgraded GPU both to support high-end 4K resolution for games and add more processing power that can enhance the games supported by PlayStation VR, the headset Sony will launch this fall. It’s unclear if ‘PS4.5’ is an official name or just a nickname that developers have been using. One developer jokingly called it the ‘PS4K’ while telling me about the device.

In layman’s terms, 4K resolution is around four times the pixel size of 1080p, which is the current standard for games on PlayStation 4 and competing consoles. The current PS4 can output 4K photos and videos, but cannot support 4K resolutions for games. With this upgrade, it would. Besides resolution, developers would have an opportunity to push more effects and other graphical tweaks to make their games look better, thanks to the new GPU.

A more powerful PS4 would also allow the machine to be more competitive with PCs in the world of virtual reality. With a higher-end GPU, the PS4 could more easily match up against the more expensive Oculus Rift and HTC Vive virtual reality headsets, which are designed to work with powerful PCs.

When contacted yesterday about this report, Sony declined to comment. “We can’t comment on rumors or speculation,” a spokesperson said in an e-mail.

The circle of people who knew about this upgraded PS4 was small until recently. I first heard about the device from one trusted source, then two. Kotaku’s Jason Schreier and Stephen Totilo were also able to independently verify the existence of these hardware plans with their own developer sources, although some of the details have been vague; one source told us that the device felt “exploratory” and that it may not even be released this year.

We’ve also heard that at this week’s Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, Sony held meetings with developers about the hardware and how it would work. As we were chasing down this story, coincidentally, Kotaku UK EIC Keza MacDonald overheard some developers casually talking about the machine while on line at GDC. They mentioned the name ‘PS4.5’ and discussed its increased horsepower, mentioning both 4K resolution and PlayStation VR.

Our sources aren’t sure when this upgraded machine will ship to consumers, nor how much it will cost. The PS4’s price dropped from $400 to $350 last fall, and one source indicated that this new ‘PS4.5’ could let Sony keep selling PS4 hardware at a higher profit margin for $400.

There are still lots of big questions surrounding the device. Will Sony allow people to trade in their existing PS4s to buy the new machine? How will developers cope with releasing games on multiple types of hardware? Could some games only support PS4.5, as is the case with the New Nintendo 3DS? When this PS4 goes on sale, will Sony continue to sell old PS4 hardware at a lower price? How can Sony manage all this without fragmenting the market?

Right now, we don’t have the answer to those questions.

The PS4.5 may not be alone, either.

I’ve heard whispers about an upgraded Xbox One for a while now, and Microsoft has been public about the possibility. At a press briefing earlier this month, Xbox head Phil Spencer hinted to journalists that his company has been exploring the possibility of evolving hardware. “We look at these other ecosystems out there like mobile, tablet and PC,” Spencer told the assembled press, as reported by Polygon, “and we see that they have a very continuous evolution cycle in hardware, whereas between console generations most of the evolution is making it cheaper and potentially making it smaller.”

Spencer later walked back those comments while speaking on the Major Nelson podcast, pouring some water on the idea of a customizable, PC-like Xbox. “Am I going to break open my console and start upgrading individual pieces of my console? That’s not our plan,” he said. “There is something special about what happens with a console. You buy an appliance-like device; you plug it into your TV; it works when you plug it in. It’s not like I’m going to ship a screwdriver set with every console that comes out.”

Plans are always changing, and some of the details we’ve heard are fuzzy, but one thing has become clear: Sony is exploring the possibility of releasing a more powerful console way before the PlayStation 5. With both Sony and Microsoft possibly entering new territory, and Nintendo’s NX on the way, this should be an exciting year for gaming hardware no matter what comes next.

Source

 

[Silverforce11]

Zen + Polaris + HBM2 APU would do it. Backwards compatibility would be key though.

They say consoles are becoming PC-like, I guess having a faster upgrade cycle would be very PC-like. lol

 

[exar333]

It was sort of inevitable. Tech just doesn't stand still and unless consoles want tablets and phones to overtake them in terms of power, they need to keep up.

 

[NTMBK]

Zen + Polaris + HBM2 APU would do it. Backwards compatibility would be key though.

They say consoles are becoming PC-like, I guess having a faster upgrade cycle would be very PC-like. lol

Would they want that level of change? Seems risky for backwards compatibility. I would expect shrunk GCN1.1 and shrunk Jaguar cores running at higher clock speeds (with extra GCN CUs), with GDDR5X memory.

 

[Silverforce11]

Would they want that level of change? Seems risky for backwards compatibility. I would expect shrunk GCN1.1 and shrunk Jaguar cores running at higher clock speeds (with extra GCN CUs), with GDDR5X memory.

x86 core isn't a change, it's just more IPC. Not like PowerPC or ARM changing to x86.

Polaris/HBM2 will be the big change. There needs to be some existing game patches to optimize for it, else it will run in non-optimized mode, though, still likely a lot faster than the weak GPU in these consoles now.

Polaris 10 is potentially Fury X+, and if Zen + Polaris 10 + HBM2 on an interposer is possible for 2017, expect a new console replacement/upgrade.

I fully expect Sony at least to market their 2017 PS4 upgrade as "VR enhanced", with that kind of CPU/GPU power available, on die/interposer linked to HBM2 & HSA / unified memory, the performance leap will be a massive edge for whoever proceeds to do it.

 

[R0H1T]

Zen + Polaris + HBM2 APU would do it. Backwards compatibility would be key though.

They say consoles are becoming PC-like, I guess having a faster upgrade cycle would be very PC-like. lol

OR possibly this

I wonder if they are even going to do an APU, they already are/have built a coherent cpu/gpu fabric for HPC. APU could be 4 core SOC + polaris 11.

That's a big plus for all consoles & console (game) developers :thumbsup:

x86 core isn't a change, it's just more IPC. Not like PowerPC or ARM changing to x86.

Polaris/HBM2 will be the big change. There needs to be some existing game patches to optimize for it, else it will run in non-optimized mode, though, still likely a lot faster than the weak GPU in these consoles now.

Polaris 10 is potentially Fury X+, and if Zen + Polaris 10 + HBM2 on an interposer is possible for 2017, expect a new console replacement/upgrade.

 

[Silverforce11]

OR possibly this

Well, whenever HBM2 is in the picture, it has to be on an interposer. So yes, it could well be a Zen + Polaris 10 combo on the interposer along with the HBM2. Either method will allow their HSA memory access to kick in, removing the latency of moving in and out of system (DDR3/GDDR5) memory, boosting performance even further.

 

[Blitzvogel]

Market fragmentation sounds like suicide, especially when the software is expected to serve the same kind of performance and visuals for everyone. People already know their phones and tablets are highly variable like PCs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The VR part ended up as an external extra box. This may be the same to play 4K Bluray.

 

[Silverforce11]

Market fragmentation sounds like suicide, especially when the software is expected to serve the same kind of performance and visuals for everyone. People already know their phones and tablets are highly variable like PCs.

Yeah and folks have no issues upgrading their phones every YEAR, which is quite a lot more expensive than consoles. It just needs backwards compatibility and they are good to go.

The VR part ended up as an external extra box. This may be the same to play 4K Bluray.

IIRC, that unit was just to process audio and overlays.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Yeah and folks have no issues upgrading their phones every YEAR, which is quite a lot more expensive than consoles. It just needs backwards compatibility and they are good to go.

I'm going to posit the theory that the market segment that upgrades their phones every year has little overlap with the console crowd. Also, Zen+Polaris+HBM is a pricing brick wall. New nodes with low yields and high cost memory on top of that, plus who the hell knows how much RnD costs.

 

[Blitzvogel]

Yeah and folks have no issues upgrading their phones every YEAR, which is quite a lot more expensive than consoles. It just needs backwards compatibility and they are good to go.

If console gamers wanted to upgrade all the time, they would get PCs. Phone prices are also lumped into monthly payment plans, while consoles tend to be fully purchased in one go, unless you're using a credit card of course. Phones also have a very high range of prices. My current phone from Spring last year was less than $200, because I'm not an attention whore pleb who needs the latest iPhone or Galaxy in rose gold. Just needed a decent processor, RAM, and screen resolution and large size to make Uber driving easier.

Developers could be required to develop a game for both versions by contract, but I see that producing a backlash if it means being expected to deliver more than just a bump from 30FPS & 1080p to 60 FPS and/or 4K. Having a framerate and resolution advantage can also be seen as unfair for online gamers.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Kotaku isn't exactly a trusted news site. They live for click bait.

 

[R0H1T]

If console gamers wanted to upgrade all the time, they would get PCs. Phone prices are also lumped into monthly payment plans, while consoles tend to be fully purchased in one go, unless you're using a credit card of course. Phones also have a very high range of prices. My current phone from Spring last year was less than $200, because I'm not an attention whore pleb who needs the latest iPhone or Galaxy in rose gold. Just needed a decent processor, RAM, and screen resolution and large size to make Uber driving easier.

Most of them do, the tremendous sale of PS4 proves it, besides it's not like they spring up every year or two.

Developers could be required to develop a game for both versions by contract, but I see that producing a backlash if it means being expected to deliver more than just a bump from 30FPS & 1080p to 60 FPS and/or 4K. Having a framerate and resolution advantage can also be seen as unfair for online gamers.

There will not be a frame rate advantage, though 4K support is (almost) inevitable, because that would put too much pressure on the GPU & as such the APU would be unbalanced, making it far too expensive as well. All things being equal, the resolution & some added effects would make it a more a compelling option for a vast majority of prospective buyers, btw I bet freesync is also going to be there.

The argument about developers being forced to develop for two platforms isn't sound either, if they can develop for consoles & then port it to PC, they can sure as hell make it for an x86+GCN based console & then another one based on beefier x86 cores+GCN 1.4 IMO. The "contractually forced" to do so is the part I don't agree with, if would depend on the amount of time & money the developer has at their disposal, doubt MS & Sony or even Nintendo would force them into such a corner.

 

[thesmokingman]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2467457

 

[MrTeal]

The only way I could see this being anything but a disaster is if it changes almost nothing other than the max supported resolution and the possibly a framerate cap. IE, if the old PS would do 1080p30, PS4k can do up to 1080p60 or 4k30.

Even then, it's a dangerous path to go down.

 

[4K_shmoorK]

So in recent news, there's talk of consoles:

• Having cross platform pay
• Having the ability to upgrade console/components for higher performance
• New upgrades to specifically support high resolution/4K gaming/VR gaming

All the while being forced to pay $60 for games and $60/50 a year for their subscription services.

What then would be the point of having a console over a PC? If all this is true, I'd say M$/Sony would be shooting themselves in the foot. But what do I know, teenagers and more casual gamers will probably eat this up and throw another $500 at M$/Sony for Console V2.

 

[tential]

This is 100% not going to happen lol....

 

[raghu78]

I don't see a PS 4.5 happening. Its a bad idea to complicate console game development with multiple platforms in the same generation. I think Sony are better off focussing on a true next gen 4K/VR console with quad core (8T) Zen/Polaris APU with HBM2(or maybe even next gen AMD GPU architecture) for launch by late 2019 or 2020. TSMC 7nm node goes into production in early 2018 and should be a good candidate for producing the next gen PS5 APU. Competitive process nodes from Samsung/GF should also be available in a similar timeframe.

 

[Sweepr]

Really doubt it. Where would a 2017 PS4.5 with a 14LPP Finfet APU + HBM2 leave a 2018/2019 PS5? Unless this is their new console, and Sony/Microsoft are planning shorter console cycles.

 

[thesmokingman]

This is just a rumor. They're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul. High powered pc's are still not able to game comfortably in 4k, why design a new unit before the infancy is over? 4k is not even matured yet.

 

[raghu78]

Really doubt it. Where would a 2017 PS4.5 with a 14LPP Finfet APU + HBM2 leave a 2018/2019 PS5? Unless this is their new console, and Sony/Microsoft are planning shorter console cycles.

yeah. It does not make sense. Sony and Microsoft are not going to hurt their current gen products. This is not the PC. Consoles are all about platform consistency, stability and longevity. I can see Sony and Microsoft next gen 4K/VR consoles launch by the end of the decade on a next gen process node like TSMC 7nm or Samsung/GF equivalent. I also think the GPU horsepower needed to do high quality 4K and VR in a console APU at 100w is only going to be possible at nodes like TSMC 7nm or equivalent.

 

[thilanliyan]

When a Fiji or 980Ti struggle to do 4K at 60fps (assuming they are not shooting for 30fps), how are they going to stuff that power into a console and keep costs and power use down? I'm skeptical.

 

[msi2]

When a Fiji or 980Ti struggle to do 4K at 60fps (assuming they are not shooting for 30fps), how are they going to stuff that power into a console and keep costs and power use down? I'm skeptical.

They are obviously shooting at 30...

 

[thilanliyan]

They are obviously shooting at 30...

**barf** (literally)