Ruling: Washington state felons can vote in prison

[Argo]

Why limit it to voting? They should be able to hold office.

Heck, we're also infringing on their right for freedom - so let's let them all out.

 

[Deeko]

Oh Washington state...what a place....

 

[Argo]

Next up - you no longer need to be a US citizen to vote. That rule is racist since there are more non-white people outside the US that white.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Hey, the criminal vote is a large bloc of the Democrat voting demographic. After all, each convicted felon is worth a vote or five, depending on how active ACORN is in a state.

 

[werepossum]

LOL... The 9th Circus rules again! These guys get slapped down more than a woman married to a mullet wearing, monster truck enthusiast.

LOL I was going to say the same thing, although minus the comparative statement which really set it off. Glad you beat me to the draw.

Another Democrat voting block freed for 2010! (Unless we're to assume that felons vote for the party that wants them kept in prison rather than the party that says they are victims too.)

 

[CitizenKain]

So what exactly is wrong with prisoners being able to vote? Stripping people of the right to vote because a single felony is probably one of the key reasons that our prisons are such shitholes. Just think, if felons in Arizona could vote, how long would that shitbag Apario still be in office?

 

[Robor]

Hey, the criminal vote is a large bloc of the Democrat voting demographic. After all, each convicted felon is worth a vote or five, depending on how active ACORN is in a state.

Fail, as usual.

 

[woolfe9999]

Though the reason for the change seems to be bogus, I would think most people would agree that serving a term in prison does not revoke all of your rights. It would seem that there is room for discussion about which individual rights should be suspended.

Can anyone present a rational argument as to why voting should be one of them?

The war on drugs is pretty central to this decision, as it turns out. The plaintiffs' central claim was that there is discrimination against minorities in the Washington criminal justice system, principally with respect to drug offenses. They say that the amount of police resources devoted to arresting offenders in minority areas is out of proportion to the actual amount of offenses in those areas versus others, and that charging and plea bargaining are handled differently for non-whites as for whites.

I don't agree with linking this to the Voting Rights Act as I think people incarcerated should lose their right to vote. However, the evidence adduced here by the plaintiffs does describe a systemic problem with the system. Here is a quote from the ruling:

"Plaintiffs have demonstrated that police practices, searches, arrests, detention practices, and plea bargaining practices lead to a greater burden on minorities that cannot be explained in race-neutral ways. The emphasis on crack cocaine and street drug trafficking is not proportional to its harm to the community or its share of the drug trade. The proportion of African Americans and Latinos arrested for drug possession bears no correlation the proportion of users among the races. Searching African Americans and Latinos at higher rates than Whites even though searches of African Americans and Latinos yield less seizures makes little sense in non-racial terms. Detaining minority defendants in disproportionate numbers to Whites even after accounting for differences among defendants in the severity of their crimes, prior criminal records, ties to the community, and the prosecuting attorney's recommendation, cannot be understood as race neutral."

- wolf

 

[bfdd]

There was nothing partisian in my response, not intended or implied.

I have a very real problem with voting and gun rights being restricted on felons, as long as they have served their time and during that time those rights restricted (that's what prison is). After that, don't care, they are free men.

I happen to agree with you on this. I've known a few guys who did some stupid shit when they were younger, did their time and aren't equal citizens for it.

 

[Patranus]

However, the evidence adduced here by the plaintiffs does describe a systemic problem with the system.

Incorrect. You assumption is that crime rates are equal throughout every population group. This is simply not the case (for whatever reason).

 

[woolfe9999]

Incorrect. You assumption is that crime rates are equal throughout every population group. This is simply not the case (for whatever reason).

Wrong, it absolutely does not assume that. You did not read what I wrote, or what the excerpt I quoted said. Crime rates are definitely not equal in every population group. The problem is that the data shows resources being apportioned to stopping crime in certain population groups which are out of proportion to the crime in that group versus others.

It is like this:

Say you have a population group that is 10% of the general population but commits 25% of the drug crimes. But your drug enforcement is 70% devoted to arresting drug offenders in that one population group.

Another problem is that you have white and non-white defendants who have committed the exact same offense, and the white defendants are getting easier plea deals and less time.

That is apparently what the Washington state data shows, and it wasn't even really disputed by the AG.

- wolf

 

[SirStev0]

Wish I could find the clip from Oz where Augustus talks about why politicians love putting up huge prisons in their districts. Basically a huge block of citizens who can't vote but pad your stats.

 

[Schadenfroh]

If these people were on trial and their right to vote was taken away then you might have a point BUT these people committed a crime regardless of their race.

Not my point, the first sentence of my post was me paraphrasing the reasoning they gave for doing so and I then offered a more logical solution based on their reasoning. Would I allow felons in prison to vote? No, but I would let them vote after they have paid their debt to society (which is not the current topic).

FACT - blacks commit felony crimes much more than whites.

I am aware of that statistical peculiarity. I used to live in a city where whites are the minority and it has one of the highest (per capita) violent crime rates in my home state. But, it is also a very poor city (low-income areas typically have higher crime), save for a couple of industrialists that have their corporate headquarters there (massive income differences). I have nothing against the said businessmen, without them the city would shrivel up and collapse as there would be no jobs. The unemployment rate there is low (especially compared to the national average) thanks to them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. Just another opportunity for self righteous indignation and outrage on the Right, directed at teh ebil libruhls.

Felons vote from prison in both Vermont and Maine, and have for a very long time. It's not like either locale is a hotbed of radical leftism, or that their communities are suffering from waves of criminal activity as a result...

I guess life wouldn't be worth living your panties weren't in a knot... so, rave on...

 

[halik]

Then why do felons lose their rights for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness? Committing a felony carries certain punishment with it.

In prison yes, but don't most states bar convicted felons from voting in general?

 

[halik]

Wrong, it absolutely does not assume that. You did not read what I wrote, or what the excerpt I quoted said. Crime rates are definitely not equal in every population group. The problem is that the data shows resources being apportioned to stopping crime in certain population groups which are out of proportion to the crime in that group versus others.

It is like this:

Say you have a population group that is 10% of the general population but commits 25% of the drug crimes. But your drug enforcement is 70% devoted to arresting drug offenders in that one population group.

Another problem is that you have white and non-white defendants who have committed the exact same offense, and the white defendants are getting easier plea deals and less time.

That is apparently what the Washington state data shows, and it wasn't even really disputed by the AG.

- wolf

COPS being my favourite past time, I have to agree there is a systematic bias in enforcement of drug laws. I have yet to see a single episode where they bust a guy in new Mercedes because he's got a platinum can of nose candy on him.

I would generalize that low income people are sampled far more frequently rather than just blacks and other minorities (at least on the show), but blacks and latinos happen to make up a larger fraction of the low income segment.

 

[Jhhnn]

In prison yes, but don't most states bar convicted felons from voting in general?

Have you no Google?-

http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=000286

 

[halik]

Heh. Just another opportunity for self righteous indignation and outrage on the Right, directed at teh ebil libruhls.

Felons vote from prison in both Vermont and Maine, and have for a very long time. It's not like either locale is a hotbed of radical leftism, or that their communities are suffering from waves of criminal activity as a result...

I guess life wouldn't be worth living your panties weren't in a knot... so, rave on...

I think you can make an argument either way (you lose some rights going into prison etc.), but in my mind it's definitely not an "OMGZZZ I can't believe it's happening" issue.

 

[halik]

Have you no Google?-

http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=000286

Sorry... don't get a lot of opportunity to use that one...

 

[Craig234]

Have you no Google?-

http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=000286

Felons are barred from googling.

 

[woolfe9999]

COPS being my favourite past time, I have to agree there is a systematic bias in enforcement of drug laws. I have yet to see a single episode where they bust a guy in new Mercedes because he's got a platinum can of nose candy on him.

I would generalize that low income people are sampled far more frequently rather than just blacks and other minorities (at least on the show), but blacks and latinos happen to make up a larger fraction of the low income segment.

I tend to agree, that at the level of police, the bias is more socioeconomic than racial, at least outside the deep south.

However, it is more difficult to explain what goes on once the arrest is made and the matter is under discretion of the DA. The Washington data shows not only bias in plea deals being offered, but biases in the exercise of charging discretion as well. I doubt the bias at that level is primarily socioeconomic.

- wolf

 

[halik]

I tend to agree, that at the level of police, the bias is more socioeconomic than racial, at least outside the deep south.

However, it is more difficult to explain what goes on once the arrest is made and the matter is under discretion of the DA. The Washington data shows not only bias in plea deals being offered, but biases in the exercise of charging discretion as well. I doubt the bias at that level is primarily socioeconomic.

- wolf

Whats your background just out of curiosity?

 

[woolfe9999]

Whats your background just out of curiosity?

If you mean by profession, it's law. It's why I was able to access the full court opinion from Westlaw.

- wolf

 

[Craig234]

I tend to agree, that at the level of police, the bias is more socioeconomic than racial, at least outside the deep south.

However, it is more difficult to explain what goes on once the arrest is made and the matter is under discretion of the DA. The Washington data shows not only bias in plea deals being offered, but biases in the exercise of charging discretion as well. I doubt the bias at that level is primarily socioeconomic.

- wolf

That's a very good point. We want to think the DA doesn't have the same 'issues', but it's also a relatively secret, secluded process.

There are various ways minorities get taken afdvantage of. I recall 'insider stories' of car salesman who really treat blacks much worse and overcharge.

Speaking of overcharging, I'd sure hope the same tyoe if taking advantage isn't as systemic for DA's. The capital punishment, sentencing, and other statistics for blacks have been terrible, though.

 

[Jhhnn]

There are various ways minorities get taken afdvantage of. I recall 'insider stories' of car salesman who really treat blacks much worse and overcharge.

Not to mention mortgage brokers and subprime lending...

Righties increasingly remind me of Dana Carvey's "Church Lady", except they don't realize they're a parody of themselves...