Rubio: No abortions for Zika-infected women

[some_guy]

http://www.politico.com/states/flor...o-no-abortions-for-zika-infected-women-104555

"Sen. Marco Rubio said Saturday that he doesn’t believe a pregnant woman infected with the Zika virus should have the right to an abortion — even if she had reason to believe the child would be born with severe microcephaly."


I wonder if he will change his mind ?


http://www.cdc.gov/zika/about/questions.html
"Zika infection during pregnancy can cause a serious birth defect called microcephaly and other severe fetal brain defects. Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS), an uncommon sickness of the nervous system, is also very likely triggered by Zika in a small number of cases."

{ begin sarcasm }

Perhaps he will be adopting some of the babies with birth defects, and helping other people in his greater family to adopt them. Or perhaps passing legislation to cover the expenses of raising babies affected by Zika. Or perhaps he will take a stand against putting in the defunding of Planned Parenthood distribution of birth control from the Zika legislation. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sena...anned-parenthood-objections/story?id=40193006)

{ end sarcasm }

 

[Linux23]

gotta love the Republiots.

 

[Jaskalas]

You find this decision easy, as you do not view the unborn as human.
For me, this decision is anything but easy. I view them as human, and I make no exception to that fact... probably as far back as the fetus having a heart beat.

So what you're asking us is "do we dispose of the disabled?" Rubio says no... and you mock him for it.

 

[Lash444]

I think that those who believe that others should not be allowed to abort a baby infected with Zika should do their part and financially support the mother. Having such a baby will certainly demand a far greater amount of care, the least they can do is pay for all of its medical needs, special education requirements, and etc.
IMO, if you aren't willing to do that, then you should STFU.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You find this decision easy, as you do not view the unborn as human.

Please learn to speak more clearly. Human embryos and fetuses are human. They just aren't persons. Not everything that is human is a person. It is a distortion to suggest that pro-choice advocates do not regard the fetus as human. I absolutely regard it as human. It just isn't a person, and that is a fact, not an opinion.

I'm allowing for this instance that your distortion is unintentional, but truth be told you've been around this forum and certainly involved in this debate topic long enough to have educated yourself about this distinction.

For me, this decision is anything but easy. I view them as human, and I make no exception to that fact... probably as far back as the fetus having a heart beat.

So what you're asking us is "do we dispose of the disabled?" Rubio says no... and you mock him for it.

No, the question is: does a non-person have an unqualified right to occupy the body of an actual person against that person's will?

Only idiots and assholes answer in the affirmative.

 

[Vic]

You find this decision easy, as you do not view the unborn as human.
For me, this decision is anything but easy. I view them as human, and I make no exception to that fact... probably as far back as the fetus having a heart beat.

So what you're asking us is "do we dispose of the disabled?" Rubio says no... and you mock him for it.

Microencephaly is a severe disability with a poor prognosis. Rubio's opinion is noted but the only people who should be making this decision are those women and families who are going to have to deal with it firsthand.

 

[dawp]

You find this decision easy, as you do not view the unborn as human.
For me, this decision is anything but easy. I view them as human, and I make no exception to that fact... probably as far back as the fetus having a heart beat.

So what you're asking us is "do we dispose of the disabled?" Rubio says no... and you mock him for it.

how many are you going to adopt?

how much are you willing to give to raise these kids?

 

[MovingTarget]

This is par for the course for the "pro-life" crowd. They all seem to want to shake their fingers and pass laws outlawing abortion, but not much else. When it comes to actually doing anything to support women and families during pregnancy and post-birth, especially if it requires tax dollars or direct effort on their part, they quickly lose their nerve.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The sooner the American right-wing abandons its religious base and brings the eu- back in eugenics, the better.

 

[Jaskalas]

Please learn to speak more clearly. Human embryos and fetuses are human. They just aren't persons. Not everything that is human is a person. It is a distortion to suggest that pro-choice advocates do not regard the fetus as human. I absolutely regard it as human. It just isn't a person, and that is a fact, not an opinion.

I'm allowing for this instance that your distortion is unintentional, but truth be told you've been around this forum and certainly involved in this debate topic long enough to have educated yourself about this distinction.

As you are speaking in general terms, Zika virus aside, I shall continue in the same manner.

And the fact is human = person. You make an arbitrary distinction that we do not recognize. That is the entire point.
When do you find it acceptable to take a blade and chop up a human? Your hostile indignation wants to make it black and white, but the longer you wait the more immoral it becomes. Until even you, I hope, agree that a 9 month old CHILD in the womb has the right to live.

No, the question is: does a non-person have an unqualified right to occupy the body of an actual person against that person's will?

And because they CHOOSE to conceive a child they would murder it for their own convenience.
Some are not so comfortable with killing children.

 

[sandorski]

As you are speaking in general terms, Zika virus aside, I shall continue in the same manner.

And the fact is human = person. You make an arbitrary distinction that we do not recognize. That is the entire point.
When do you find it acceptable to take a blade and chop up a human? Your hostile indignation wants to make it black and white, but the longer you wait the more immoral it becomes. Until even you, I hope, agree that a 9 month old CHILD in the womb has the right to live.



And because they CHOOSE to conceive a child they would murder it for their own convenience.
Some are not so comfortable with killing children.

Human does not mean Person.

 

[Jaskalas]

Microencephaly is a severe disability with a poor prognosis. Rubio's opinion is noted but the only people who should be making this decision are those women and families who are going to have to deal with it firsthand.

When it comes to Zika I said it's not an easy decision. Though you now know my expressed feelings on Abortion in general, I do appreciate the societal need at play here, and even the argument that it's a merciful death for those infected. That is what makes this so difficult. Instead of soundbite mockery, I'd like to get a more in-depth challenge / answer from Rubio / Republicans in general. I want the merits of both sides openly discussed on the public stage, by our "leaders", regarding Zika.

Sadly, we're not that quality of a Democracy.

 

[ivwshane]

When it comes to Zika I said it's not an easy decision. Though you now know my expressed feelings on Abortion in general, I do appreciate the societal need at play here, and even the argument that it's a merciful death for those infected. That is what makes this so difficult. Instead of soundbite mockery, I'd like to get a more in-depth challenge / answer from Rubio / Republicans in general. I want the merits of both sides openly discussed on the public stage, by our "leaders", regarding Zika.

Sadly, we're not that quality of a Democracy.

In the meantime you'll support politicians who prefer policies that interfere with a woman and her doctor and the recognized right of abortion.

Yeah we don't have a high quality democracy, mainly because idiots such as yourself vote for other idiots who then make stupid policies.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

And the fact is human = person. You make an arbitrary distinction that we do not recognize. That is the entire point.

No you are simply factually incorrect. My hair is human but it is not a person. My skin cells are human but they are not a person. A HeLa cell culture is human but it is not a person. This isn't a matter of opinion or any sensible debate. All persons are human but not all that is human is a person. A person is human, and born, and alive.

When do you find it acceptable to take a blade and chop up a human?

I do not find that acceptable at all. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of abortion's legality, however. You are misrepresenting my position for the purpose of demonizing me. Fuck off with that.

Your hostile indignation wants to make it black and white, but the longer you wait the more immoral it becomes. Until even you, I hope, agree that a 9 month old CHILD in the womb has the right to live.

Ok I'm not going to give the the benefit of the doubt anymore. The fact is that there are no "children" in wombs. You are being dishonest in representing the position of pro choice advocates, and you are doing nothing to address the plain error in fact that undermines your position.

And because they CHOOSE to conceive a child they would murder it for their own convenience.
Some are not so comfortable with killing children.

Nobody is talking about murder or children. These words have rigorously defined meanings and they do not pertain at all in this discussion. You see, you have created your own problem because you are railing against a figment of your imagination. You need to become more familiar with actual reality.

 

[jardows]

And yet, research is showing that the mass concentration of Microencephaly is very geographically specific. Many Zika infected pregnant women outside of that geographic region are having babies with no problems. The incidents of Microencephaly is statistically insignificant.

 

[dank69]

When it comes to Zika I said it's not an easy decision. Though you now know my expressed feelings on Abortion in general, I do appreciate the societal need at play here, and even the argument that it's a merciful death for those infected. That is what makes this so difficult. Instead of soundbite mockery, I'd like to get a more in-depth challenge / answer from Rubio / Republicans in general. I want the merits of both sides openly discussed on the public stage, by our "leaders", regarding Zika.

Sadly, we're not that quality of a Democracy.

The merits won't be discussed anymore because society moved past this point of the debate long ago. A human doesn't have a right to occupy the body of another human regardless of how normal the former is.

 

[abj13]

And yet, research is showing that the mass concentration of Microencephaly is very geographically specific. Many Zika infected pregnant women outside of that geographic region are having babies with no problems. The incidents of Microencephaly is statistically insignificant.

If that's your contention, then please explain the following information:

1) Zika virus has been identified in brain tissue using a variety of means, including PCR and immunohistochemistry
2) Please explain why in a case series of pregnant women, 29% of women with detection of Zika RNA had fetal abnormalities, while 0% of the Zika uninfected pregnant women had fetal abnormalities
3) Please explain why Zika virus can be identified from the amniotic fluid of women with fetuses that had microcephaly
4) Please explain why, as of August 4th in the United States alone, there have been 15 pregnancies that have resulted in birth defects and 6 pregnancies that have resulted in loss of the pregnancy
5) Explain why in 30 children with microcephaly, they all had positive IgM antibodies to Zika virus
6) Explain why there were cases of microcephaly in French Polynesia during the Zika outbreak

I suggest you do more reading on the subject before posting such factually false statements.

 

[Jhhnn]

Microencephaly is a severe disability with a poor prognosis. Rubio's opinion is noted but the only people who should be making this decision are those women and families who are going to have to deal with it firsthand.

That's true of abortion in general, not just wrt Zika. Anti-abortionists occupy a minority opinion position of insufficient strength to change the Constitution which is what it would take to ban abortion. They'll take the govt hostage & pass unconstitutional laws at the state level every chance they get, however.

Abortion is one of the right wing's perma issues. They froth it it up to get voters irrational enough to vote for trickle down economic policy, again. Guns, immigration & taxes are along the same lines. If they actually banned abortion they'd lose one of their best brain scramblers.

 

[Jhhnn]

And yet, research is showing that the mass concentration of Microencephaly is very geographically specific. Many Zika infected pregnant women outside of that geographic region are having babies with no problems. The incidents of Microencephaly is statistically insignificant.

Linky-linky.

 

[alien42]

And yet, research is showing that the mass concentration of Microencephaly is very geographically specific. Many Zika infected pregnant women outside of that geographic region are having babies with no problems. The incidents of Microencephaly is statistically insignificant.

as of July 28th, there have been 15 liveborn infants with birth defects and 6 pregnancy losses with birth defects in the US due to possible Zika infection. we'll see just how fast that number rises with time, but i would hardly call it insignificant.

http://www.cdc.gov/zika/geo/pregnancy-outcomes.html

 

[Jhhnn]

as of July 28th, there have been 15 liveborn infants with birth defects and 6 pregnancy losses with birth defects in the US due to possible Zika infection. we'll see just how fast that number rises with time, but i would hardly call it insignificant.

http://www.cdc.gov/zika/geo/pregnancy-outcomes.html

It doesn't even matter other than for affected families. The whole discussion is an attempt to equivocate women's right to abortion.

 

[DrPizza]

Politically, it's interesting that Rubio made that statement. He's announced he's running for Senator again - and he's smart enough to know that such a statement is going to get headline attention. I can only surmise that he publicly made the statement for political reasons. And I'm genuinely wondering if it will help his campaign, or hurt his campaign. Demographically, Florida is fairly evenly split between pro-life and pro-choice. (Unlike, say Oklahoma which is more pro-life or NY which is more pro-choice.) The birth defects are pretty devastating, and I wouldn't wish them upon the child of anyone I know, friend or foe. The Pope (is there anyone who can claim they're more pro-life than the Pope? Well, maybe Cruz. ) has come out and said that using birth control (which the Catholic Church has been very much against in the past) is the lesser of two evils in this situation. Thus, I think a lot of people on the fence in the pro-choice vs. pro-life debate may be swayed to believing that an abortion to prevent suffering may be the better choice in this case - and may be swayed to think less of Rubio for being in favor.

If I were his opponent, I would certainly make it an issue. (I'm not sure who's running against him without looking i up.) "My wife and I would never have an abortion, and we're the proud parents of three children. But we're in favor of leaving that decision up to each individual couple, depending on their circumstances. Unlike Marco, I would never tell a couple that they are being forced to bring into this world a suffering child with severe birth defects due to Zika - a child for whom the family could not afford the staggering costs of medical and daily care. In such cases, an abortion should be a personal decision, not a decision of the state."

 

[zinfamous]

I think that those who believe that others should not be allowed to abort a baby infected with Zika should do their part and financially support the mother. Having such a baby will certainly demand a far greater amount of care, the least they can do is pay for all of its medical needs, special education requirements, and etc.
IMO, if you aren't willing to do that, then you should STFU.

well, it was their choice to be infected by a mosquito. should have used DEET!

 

[JSt0rm]

You find this decision easy, as you do not view the unborn as human.
For me, this decision is anything but easy. I view them as human, and I make no exception to that fact... probably as far back as the fetus having a heart beat.

So what you're asking us is "do we dispose of the disabled?" Rubio says no... and you mock him for it.

Why do you assume a women who contracted this disease would find it an easy decision to end her babies life? Thats gotta be one of the most heart wrenching choices she will ever make in her life. But its her choice to make. Not yours. Because you wont have to live with the horrible disability and life long pain. She and her child will.

 

[JSt0rm]

also republicans have stopped the funding for the zika virus fight. Now their states are getting infected. Total dysfunction.