RTX continues to seriously disappoint me

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BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#76
DXR is an industry standard, is not open source, is not RTX, is ray tracing, is not supported by AMD.

How do you explain industry standard DXR running on Pascal parts? No RTX hardware, industry standard ray tracing works.

Who told you every industry standard is open source? That person is an absolute moron, seriously, don't trust them on anything.
 

Krteq

Senior member
May 22, 2015
755
75
136
#77
DXR is an industry standard, is not open source, is not RTX, is ray tracing, is not supported by AMD.
What are you talking about? AMD is one of authors of DXR and DXR IS supported by AMD, it's just not exposed in publicly available driver yet.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#78
Is that some sort of existential defense of AMD?

So AMD supports the standard just not their customers....?

Trying to figure it out, my apologies, I'm a pragmatist so it sounds like something someone came up with on an acid trip.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,583
48
136
#79
What are you talking about? AMD is one of authors of DXR and DXR IS supported by AMD, it's just not exposed in publicly available driver yet.
Then he wouldn't be able to shout REFUSED from his perch. Speaking of which, off to youtube.
 
Feb 19, 2016
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#80
Back on topic then.. RTX is a big disappointment, released 22 years too early. Unless some open source implementation comes up and doesn't suck.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#81
Oh, AMD supports DXR? Cool, what card and what driver do I need? Been dying to see how their implementation stacks up and see if maybe they have better performance, so what card and what driver?
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,173
12
91
#82
The level at which I was blown away seeing this for the first time has never been replicated with any tech, except possibly seeing Unreal outdoors for the first time.
Agreed. A close second for me was CryTek's demo back in 1999.

Crytek was founded by the German-Turkish brothers Cevat, Avni and Faruk Yerli in September 1999 in Coburg, Germany.[3] One of their first projects was a tech demo of a game called X-Isle: Dinosaur Island, which showcased their game engine technology that allowed for large viewing distances that other game engines could not do, at that time. They met with NVIDIA during the 1999 Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) where their tech demo caught the attention of NVIDIA and various media groups. Crytek later signed on with NVIDIA to distribute X-Isle as benchmarking software for NVIDIA cards.[3]
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
4,525
458
126
#83
Ray tracing was always a massive chicken and egg problem. Why write software to do something the hardware isn’t good at and why build hardware that no one programs games to take advantage of?

It’s good that NVidia is getting things started, but it will be another five years before we see anything that people might consider amazing. I suspect that use on the consoles will be similarly gimmicky, much the same way their 4K really wasn’t.

Eventually we’ll reach a point where the hardware is powerful enough to do real time ray tracing for everything, but that’s a decade off at the very least. It also assumes we don’t go chasing 16K displays or something idiotic like that.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#84
Quake 2 RTX is using ray tracing for everything right now, not sure what you're talking about taking a decade? With resolution shifting at a snail's pace again two generations out and the xx50 series will probably handle 1440p with ray tracing at solid performance levels.
 
Apr 27, 2000
12,759
1,563
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#85
@BenSkywalker

Quake 2? Seriously? That's a tech demo using a game that was released in 1997. And the relatively poor performance of that tech demo is being used by the RTX haters to mock RTX. I would not use that as an indicator of rapid adoption of RT.

@Mopetar is right. It's gonna be awhile before we see significant mass adoption of RT.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,260
191
126
#86
Quake 2 RTX is using ray tracing for everything right now, not sure what you're talking about taking a decade? With resolution shifting at a snail's pace again two generations out and the xx50 series will probably handle 1440p with ray tracing at solid performance levels.
Uh, its a 20+ year old game that runs at low frame rates on high end hardware with RT enabled. A modern game with all illumination handled by RT will be a VERY long ways out.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#87
"It'll be 10 years before we see RT for everything"

Shows RT for everything right now

Goal posts moved miles

1080p 60 fps for a xx60 part, the eighth fastest ray tracing GPU of the first generation of hardware and people are mocking it..... Understanding of technology is rather lacking in this discussion.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#89
......so you think in ten years Word 2029 will have ray tracing.....?

I assumed everything meant every lighting element in a game, not my remote controls UI will be ray traced.
 

Hitman928

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2012
1,892
334
136
#90





1080p and maybe 60 fps

VS




4K and solid 60+ fps

Decisions, decisions.
 
Apr 27, 2000
12,759
1,563
126
#92
......so you think in ten years Word 2029 will have ray tracing.....?
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Everything means nearly every AAA game supports it with decent framerates. Not a measily tech demo using a game from 1997 that runs like crap. At that point you may as well just say, "3DMark supports it!!!!" and stop there. You've got no point.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#93
Doom eternal 4k at 60+ FPS on a 2060....

Didn't realize we had a time traveler with benchmarks from games that haven't come out yet, impressive.

We'll have enough hardware power to real time ray trace everything was the comment, Q2RTX does that today. It's not a tech demo, it's a full game. Yep, it's old. Yep, it's using ray tracing for every lighting effect. Yep it's playable on the eighth fastest ray tracing card.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#95
Want to play a game? AAA games coming soon that support ray tracing versus those that don't?

Doom eternal, used to show how inferior ray tracing is a couple of posts ago? That's a ray tracing game, Cyberpunk, all the major next gen console titles revealed so far. The entire industry is on board outside of a small handful of people rabidly anti progress.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,359
887
136
#96
Doom eternal, used to show how inferior ray tracing is a couple of posts ago? That's a ray tracing game
Doom eternal, the game which will definitely feature ray tracing, right after it backs up Stadia for a bigger audience:
RTX makes it look, you know, amazing,” said Doom Eternal executive producer Marty Stratton, during a chat with Giant Bomb. “There are great benefits but it doesn’t necessarily expand our audience or the way that something like Stadia does so, but absolutely people can look forward to DOOM Eternal and id Tech 7 supporting ray tracing. Absolutely. I mean we love that stuff, the team loves it and I think we’ll do it better than anybody honestly.”
“We’ll probably get into that further down the road with Doom Eternal, but our rendering team is among the best in the industry. Ray tracing is just a matter of priority for us. Any time we take a technical step we’re looking at how we can lead in that area. With Vulkan, VR and streaming we were leaders and ray tracing will be no different. The team has been spending a lot of time looking at that, we just haven’t gone fully down that road yet because we’re just so focussed on Doom Eternal and getting that out. Ray tracing is about better visuals but not necessarily more users, so that’s where we look at something like streaming and make it a priority overall for us, because it means more people can play games. Ray tracing is about playing games with a greater visual fidelity, which is awesome and we will lead when it comes to that for sure, but that’s how it gets stacked internally for our team. We really want to get the game out and that’s what everyone is focussed on.”
TL;DR Ray tracing is great, looks amazing, but it ain't top priority for us: streaming is.

As I said a few posts back, Cyberpunk better deliver.
 

Hitman928

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2012
1,892
334
136
#97
Doom eternal 4k at 60+ FPS on a 2060....

Didn't realize we had a time traveler with benchmarks from games that haven't come out yet, impressive.

We'll have enough hardware power to real time ray trace everything was the comment, Q2RTX does that today. It's not a tech demo, it's a full game. Yep, it's old. Yep, it's using ray tracing for every lighting effect. Yep it's playable on the eighth fastest ray tracing card.
Top one being Doom Eternal was a mistake, was going for Doom 2016 and the bottom one is Doom 2016. Either one you use, end result is the same.

More Doom 2016 and yes, 2060 can run it 4K 60+ fps. Your claims of 1080p 60 for the RTX 2060 on Quake2 RTX also appear to be untrue based upon the videos I saw of the 2060 actually running the game. Looks more like mid 50s with Global Illumination low to me. It takes another ~10 fps hit if you turn GI to high.

1565640459164.png
1565640529337.png
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,012
48
81
#98
2060 60FPS

If you want to compare best looking game using RTX I'd pick Metro, Q2RTX lighting embarrasses Doom 2016's, in every other metric D16 wins massively.
 

Hitman928

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2012
1,892
334
136
#99
A single average number isn't worth much when you have no idea what scene they are testing or how they are testing it. Actual video benchmarks show consistently under 60, even when turning GI to low:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfrPtgi3IFI&t

If you want to compare best looking game using RTX I'd pick Metro,
Metro uses RTX for GI only, not for shadow casting or reflections, but it does look great, although sometimes the denoiser isn't good enough and in some scenes it's clear they limit the number of bounces below optimal for visual fidelity.

Q2RTX lighting embarrasses Doom 2016's, in every other metric D16 wins massively.
I wouldn't say embarrasses, Doom lighting still looks great, but Q2RTX's lighting is noticeably better. However, just like everyone has been saying, Doom crushes Q2RTX overall and performs significantly better doing it. No one is saying Ray tracing doesn't look better, just that it's not worth the performance hit compared to modern techniques and probably won't be at least for a few years yet.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,110
310
136
When can we enjoy Ray Tracing in 4K on RTX 2060 at 60 FPS? ;)

And I mean Enjoy. With everything cranked up to the limits.
 
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