Question RTX 5090 4K Gaming build - Core Ultra 265K tuned vs 9800X3D - Talk me out of or for returning my 265K parts and getting 9800X3D parts at microcenter

[511]

No they did not. Had they produced less, 265K would never have gotten such a deep discount.

285K I can believe. Not the other SKUs. They really needed to produce a ton of them to give something sellable to the OEMs since Raptor was such a resounding success that people kept returning them because they couldn't believe they got so much more than what they paid for and their guilty conscience left them unable to sleep thinking "I don't deserve so much for so less. Sorry Intel but you deserve it back so you can screw over someone else".

Bruh you know that 265K is created from the same tile as 285K?

Here is what Intel is doing
285K -> 275/285HX
265K is just a lower bin
The 6+8 Tile is used by ARL-H so there is that
Also Depending on above production is shifted between LNL/ARL depending on customer order.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also Depending on above production is shifted between LNL/ARL depending on customer order.

Still doesn't explain the deep discounts. Are you saying that they deliberately took a loss on producing more 265K's for more market penetration in their precarious financial situation?

Let me tell you one thing that I have never witnessed in my entire life.

Online stores selling Core i7 class CPUs at Core i5 prices.

Even 11900K and 11700K sell at higher prices than 265K.

 

[511]

Still doesn't explain the deep discounts. Are you saying that they deliberately took a loss on producing more 265K's for more market penetration in their precarious financial situation?

6+8 die is used in mobile while the perfect bin of 8+16 is being sold as 275HX/285K. 265K is left after binning out 285K/275HX so this is a bin that would have been waster and it is going to consumers the price cut is due to ARL being ass in gaming.

Let me tell you one thing that I have never witnessed in my entire life.

Online stores selling Core i7 class CPUs at Core i5 prices.

Even 11900K and 11700K sell at higher prices than 265K.

that's hilarious

 

[igor_kavinski]

that's hilarious

They are dying to get this thing OUT of their warehouses!

 

[Zepp]

It is only yesterday that I started getting a yellow bar on my gmail that this browser version is not supported anymore (I'm on Win 8.1). But gmail is still working.

interesting. I liked 8.1 better than 7 and 10. I recently started up a vm of 8.1 thinking maybe most of the windows apps I occasionally need might still work on it. But I couldn't get windows updates to start at all and it didnt have usb drivers working so I couldn't pass-through my usb-drive with apps to install. internet works though. might see if there are virtio and spice drivers available for it.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Thanks for all advice everyone.

I tried to convince myself of my own delusional and somewhat Intel bias and overthinking but the facts speak for themselves. AMD X3D CPUs both on AM5 the 7800X3D and 9800X3D and 7950X3D and 9950X3D make Intel Arrow Lake look almost as bad as Bulldozer back in the day in gaming.

Also the temps and system responsiveness was very disappointing with Arrow Lake. I had thought the mounting would make it easier to cool, but not really. Oh and tuning it forget it. Just a mild overclock on D2D and NGU system would not even POST nevermind be fully stable. I mean if I was to get anywhere I should at least get system to post in boot even if not totally stable lol. And even then it still gets whacked in gaming badly by the AM5 Ryzen 7000+ X3D parts and still loses to older gen Raptor Lake at least mildly and usually modestly and sometimes even significantly so apples to apples and often and usually even with Arrow Lake having faster RAM than Raptor Lake.

I successfully returned the Intel Core Ultra 265K, MSI Z890 Tomahawk and G.Skill 2 X 24GB Trident X5 8000 RAM. All $239 each.

I purchased 9800X3D for $459, Team Group 2 X 24GB TCreate EXPERT DDR5 6400 for $199, and MSI B850 Tomahawk for $209 (original price is $279 but was on sale for $209 at Amazon and BestBuy price matched). I got the 9800X3D and RAM at MicroCenter, but MC did not have the board I wanted for AM5 and BestBuy did.

I thought of the MSI X870/X870E Tomahawk which has the option to disable USB4 and preserve all 8 NVME lanes to CPU as well as 16 GPU lanes, but it only had 2 more USB Type A ports on back then B850 Tomahawk and then 2 useless 40Gbs USB C ports that would have been shut off and same VRM and was oh not on sale and more expensive by $100 and even by $30 to $40 had B850 Tomahawk not been on sale at Amazon. Plus B850 Tomahawk those extra 2 USB C ports only 10Gb/s instead of 40 and can be used as no USB 4 stupid mandate.

Hate the fact that AMD mandated USB4 on All X870/X870E boards which siphons lanes form NVME and cuts top GPU PCIe slot lanes in half if you want to use 2 X4 NVME direct to CPU and/or cuts those lanes to X2 in case of MSI mid range boards if you use more than one X4 NVME direct to CPU. No such problem on B850.

And the older X670E boards few and far between now. They may not make many of them anymore.

 

[Thunder 57]

Motherboard prices these days. Isn't Tomahawk supposed to be budget friendly? I was going to post earlier to look for 600 series chipset boards as the 800 is almost a downgrade just so they can print USB4 on the box. Looks like you did just that but supply has dried up. Unfortunate. Have fun with your new toy!

And don't worry about Intel. They'll figure their CPU's out. Their fabs on the other hand...

 

[Wolverine2349]

Motherboard prices these days. Isn't Tomahawk supposed to be budget friendly? I was going to post earlier to look for 600 series chipset boards as the 800 is almost a downgrade just so they can print USB4 on the box. Looks like you did just that but supply has dried up. Unfortunate. Have fun with your new toy!

And don't worry about Intel. They'll figure their CPU's out. Their fabs on the other hand...

Thanks.

Yeah motherboard prices these days are high. Tomahawk is a mid range board, nor budget nor high end. I think the more budget friendly from MSI are the Gaming X and Pro series mobos.

Yeah I just want what is best performance and let me judgement for more then 8 cores on one die cloud it.

Reality is I mean if games were really gonna start stressing more cores hard, it would start happening by now. The fact that 5800X3D in like every latest game spanks the 5950X shows it aged better and gams really just do nor scale to tons of cores. Not saying it could not happen, but seems maybe a wall has been hit.

Cause its not as if more than 8 cores on mainstream desktop is a new thing. We have had 12 core parts for barely over 6 years from AMD since July 2019 and 16 cores since late November 2019.

And Intel 10 core Comet Lake since May 2020.

So its not as if devs have not had time to optimize and scale to more cores. But despite that latest games the higher performance with at least 6 cores still spank lower IPC CPUs with more than 8 cores. Meaning yes as stated games absolutely do not need more than 8 cores.


There may be some edge cases where games can get marginal benefit or even moderate benefit from more than 8 cores but whatever.

What is strange is that back in the Core 2 Duo days, I remember it was stated faster Core 2 Duo better than Core 2 Quad for gaming. Yet Core 2 Quads aged better. I wonder if game development was easy to scale past 1-2 cores, but perfect parallelization is just hard and that has not changed meaning the wall was hit 4-6 then 6-8 cores where as going form 1 to 2 then 2 to 4 was easy for devs based on how games are made. But scaling too many more is just really hard.

 

[Thunder 57]

Thanks.

Yeah motherboard prices these days are high. Tomahawk is a mid range board, nor budget nor high end. I think the more budget friendly from MSI are the Gaming X and Pro series mobos.

Yeah I just want what is best performance and let me judgement for more then 8 cores on one die cloud it.

Reality is I mean if games were really gonna start stressing more cores hard, it would start happenning by now. The fact that 5800X3D in like eveyr latest game spanks the 5950X shows it aged better and gams really just do nor scale to tons of cores. Not saying it could not happen, but seems maybe a wall has been hit.

Cause its not as if more than 8 cores on mainstream desktop is a new thing. We have had 12 core parts for barely over 6 years from AMD since July 2019 and 16 cores since late November 2019.

And Intel 10 core Comet Lake since May 2020.

So its not as if devs have not had time to optimize and scale to more cores. But despite that latest games the higher performance with at least 6 cores still spank lower IPC CPUs with more than 8 cores. Meaning yes as stated games absolutely do not need more than 8 cores.


There may be some edge cases where games can get marginal benefit or even moderate benefit from more than 8 cores but whatever.

What is strange is that back in the Core 2 Duo days, I remember it was stated faster Core 2 Duo better than Core 2 Quad for gaming. Yet Core 2 Quads aged better. I wonder if game development was easy to scale past 1-2 cores, but perfect parallelization is just hard and that has not changed meaning the wall was hit 4-6 then 6-8 cores where as going form 1 to 2 then 2 to 4 was easy for devs based on how games are made. But scaling too many more is just really hard.

I worded "budget friendly" wrong. What I was trying to say was $200-300 used to be high end and now it is more "budget friendly" than say $600 variants. There is still budget stuff out there in the $100's but the quality isn't what it used to be.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This thread has better plot twists than an M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.

Don't forget that Intel APO's advanced mode could help gaming performance in unsupported titles. Don't give up on a CPU until you have loved it enough.

To quote the best moderator on TPU - "You need to make sure specific settings are enabled in BIOS. APO touches things deep, it is not just "a scheduler"."

SS of their system -

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah this BIOS integration is stupid and unnecessarily complex. I had a headache trying to get XTU to run and had to turn on multiple things in the BIOS.

 

[poke01]

This thread has better plot twists than an M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.


To quote the best moderator on TPU - "You need to make sure specific settings are enabled in BIOS. APO touches things deep, it is not just "a scheduler"."

SS of their system -

View attachment 129877

Sigh - this shouldn’t even be required if your cpu was good to begin with. Don’t mask bad hardware with complex software, Intel.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Don’t mask bad hardware with complex software, Intel.

That's not changing in the next two years though, if the rumors are true. Intel APO gonna INJECT executables left and right with rewritten APX instructions!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Sigh - this shouldn’t even be required if your cpu was good to begin with. Don’t mask bad hardware with complex software, Intel.

Worse yet, the latest games they added were mostly outdated and had no performance issues that needed addressing. Next WTF; most are margin of error or barely better increases.