Question RTX 5090 4K Gaming build - Core Ultra 265K tuned vs 9800X3D - Talk me out of or for returning my 265K parts and getting 9800X3D parts at microcenter

[gdansk]

Zen5 flag had regression xDd

In gcc12

 

[511]

In gcc12

MY bad than cause I for sure remember Huang saying so that on Twitter

 

[Wolverine2349]

Enough with the FUD. Zen4 has full avx2 support. As did every chip past bulldozer. Which basically had avx2 except its FMA was FMA4. Zen4 also has full avx512 support. In fact it has more avx512 support than every other intel chip before Sapphire Rapids for which it is basically equal except for the FP16 operation which Sapphire Rapids is the only chip that supports it. No one is going to adopt the intel only 16bit float instruction when the whole industry has gone BF16. You'll say anything to put down amd without even doing the simplest websearch.

No I do not. Zen 4 I remember reaidng was like half pipeline AVX512 while Intel on Alder Lake chips e-cores off and Rocket Lake had full support.

Or does Zen 4 have full AVX512. I have heard both sides of the story??

I know Zen 3 had 0 AVX512. Intel had none before Rocket Lake on consumer chips. They had it on newer chips but decided to fuse it off Alder Lake P cores for some stupid reason???

 

[gdansk]

Or does Zen 4 have full AVX512.

It has a rather full AVX512 implementation. But it executes them at 256-bit per cycle.
Zen 5 can execute the same instructions at 512-bit per cycle. For games that seldom matters. The utility is mainly the new instructions.

 

[Wolverine2349]

It has a rather full AVX512 implementation. But it executes them at 256-bit per cycle.
Zen 5 can execute the same instructions at 512-bit per cycle. For games that seldom matters. The utility is mainly the new instructions.

Oh ok makes sense. Does Intel Rocket Lake and Alder Lake with e-cores disabled before they fused it off and BIOS updates disabled it execute AVX512 at 256-bit per cycle or 512-bit per cycle like Zen 5?

How about Intel Sapphire Rapids and other Xeon parts that have AVX512?

 

[gdansk]

Does Intel Rocket Lake and Alder Lake with e-cores disabled before they fused it off and BIOS updates disabled it execute AVX512 at 256-bit per cycle or 512-bit per cycle like Zen 5?

512-bit but with two nuances:
1. less throughput than Zen 5
2. it throttled quite a bit more than Zen 5 - probably matters most if games used AVX512

Spoiler

Codename	Product Type	Architecture	SIMD Width	SIMD Execution Throughput
AMD Raphael	Desktop	Zen4	4 x 256-bit	1024 bits / cycle
AMD Granite Ridge	Desktop	Zen5	4 x 512-bit	2048 bits / cycle
Intel Skylake X	Desktop/Server	Skylake	3 x 256-bit 2 x 512-bit	768 bits / cycle 1024 bits / cycle
Intel Ice Lake	All	Sunny Cove	3 x 256-bit 2 x 512-bit	768 bits / cycle 1024 bits / cycle
Intel Tiger Lake	Mobile	Willow Cove	3 x 256-bit 2 x 512-bit	768 bits / cycle 1024 bits / cycle
Intel Alder/Raptor Lake	Mobile/Desktop	Golden Cove Gracemont	3 x 256-bit 3 x 128-bit	768 bits / cycle 384 bits / cycle
Intel Sapphire Rapids	Server	Golden Cove	3 x 256-bit 2 x 512-bit	768 bits / cycle 1024 bits / cycle
Intel Lunar/Arrow Lake	Mobile/Desktop	Lion Cove Skymont	4 x 256-bit 4 x 128-bit	1024 bits / cycle 512 bits / cycle

 

[Markfw]

Both from Google.

Intel decided to disable AVX-512 for Alder Lake and Raptor Lake client-oriented CPU lineups
No, Raptor Lake is not AVX-512 compatible, even with E-cores disabled

• Intel's Response:
  Intel released microcode updates to prevent this workaround, removing the option to enable AVX-512 via E-core disabling.

 

[511]

Both from Google.

Intel decided to disable AVX-512 for Alder Lake and Raptor Lake client-oriented CPU lineups
No, Raptor Lake is not AVX-512 compatible, even with E-cores disabled

• Intel's Response:
  Intel released microcode updates to prevent this workaround, removing the option to enable AVX-512 via E-core disabling.

This was a d*** move from Intel I never liked it

 

[Wolverine2349]

Thanks for all help.

I really am not a fanboy of either company. Reason I prefer Intel is primarily because they were on top for so long and they are bigger and have more resources to fix things if they break.

And had a bad experience with 9800X3D a bit. And no fond of having to go overkill with 9950X but next step down and been case since Zen 3 is the 9900X/7900X but that is even worse than 9800X3D or 7800X3D because the only CCD with 3D vCache has 6 cores insted of 8 big no no.

I also like that Intel stepping down one no such problem as just less e-cores but all on same die. With AMD its not like you can step below a flagship and have same cause they have no 8+4 config. Its 2 6 core CCDs which is a no no compared to one 8 core CCD especially 3D vCache.

I just put together 265K Ultra system. But I am thinking of taking it apart and just going 9800X3D. Much simpler no hybrid or dual CCD setup. But want something with stutter free experience and smooth and no bugs.

 

[Wolverine2349]

As for no stutters and no bugs if I decide to go 9800X3D, what are some things I can do. Any motherboard recommendations .

I have been fond of MSI mobos lately. Are they good. I also like a mobo that has 2 NVME X4 direct to CPU when able which all Zen 4/5 CPUs that are not APUs can while preserving all 16 GPU lans. I hate how so many X870E mandate USB4 and siphon lanes form NVME so you can only have 1 NVME to CPU woithout slicing GPU lanes to half.

Yes some mobos you can swithc it off and there is B850 mobos no such issue. But they are fewer. And ironically some of higher end boards actually have less options like the Carbon cs Tomahawk. Tomahawk whioch is a lower end board is better for my puirpose on the X870/X870E front. Yet got to steop all the way up to the stupid overpriced Godlike to get even better than Carbon and feature to ax USB4 in favor of 2 NVME X4 without slicing GPU lanes.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Also any tips regarding Windows version, Should you always be on latest. I hate 24H2 WIN11 as breaks some games compatibility particularly denovu protected games.

I also prefer WIN10 LTSC when I can use it. It seems fine with simple things like no P and E-cores and is less bloated and crap. get a free license through my workplace account which is how I can use specialized WIN10 LTSC.

Could slight older Windows versions even on single CCD simple setup be a big problems and cause stuttering or non sense??

What about C-State and PBO and CO and Expo. I mean if you run 6200 1:1 and 2067 FCLK and it passes all stress tests flying colors is it a go, or can there be hidden stutters as its not truly stable even though all say almost every chip can do 2067 FCLK and some more. And like all should do 2000.

 

[511]

Here is the thing regarding windows don't install updates until they have been released for a month for patches turn off all the telemetry.
Try Staying on last years release i just migrated to 24H2 just few days ago.
Turn off memory integrity if you prefer performance over security.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Here is the thing regarding windows don't install updates until they have been released for a month for patches turn off all the telemetry.
Try Staying on last years release i just migrated to 24H2 just few days ago.
Turn off memory integrity if you prefer performance over security.

I do all hat and in fact stay at older versions and am afraid of new updates that turn telemetry back on.

I manually check updates before installing anything and sometimes wait for even monthly cumulate updates.

 

[511]

i actually use answer file on my Windows ISO it just turns off everything by defaut

 

[Wolverine2349]

No, it's actually not even that close at all. At 5.5GHz LC is about 11.1 SPECint 2017 rate-1 and 5.5GHz Z5 3D is about 13.3.
Maybe you're not actually measuring and going by gut.

Well I hear that and it amkes sense now. I looked at overall IPC uplift was like 16% over Zen 4.

But floating point uplift performance was like 23% or so and that is what held AMD back before compared to intel. Integer was 11% uplift.

So maybe Zen 5 really does have better IPC than Lion Cove by q semi decent amount?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

My advice is stick with the 265K until it stops being able to play your games the way you want to play them. Then buy whatever Intel offers next. U.S. taxpayer money was used to buy 433.3 million shares of Intel stock. I would like an ROI from it, so do you part.

 

[gdansk]

My advice is stick with the 265K until it stops being able to play your games the way you want to play them. Then buy whatever Intel offers next. U.S. taxpayer money was used to buy 433.3 million shares of Intel stock. I would like an ROI from it, so do you part.

Mr. Shareholder you should be asking him to buy the 285K or 14900K(S) so Intel's margins don't suffer.

 

[DaaQ]

Also any tips regarding Windows version, Should you always be on latest. I hate 24H2 WIN11 as breaks some games compatibility particularly denovu protected games.

I also prefer WIN10 LTSC when I can use it. It seems fine with simple things like no P and E-cores and is less bloated and crap. get a free license through my workplace account which is how I can use specialized WIN10 LTSC.

Could slight older Windows versions even on single CCD simple setup be a big problems and cause stuttering or non sense??

What about C-State and PBO and CO and Expo. I mean if you run 6200 1:1 and 2067 FCLK and it passes all stress tests flying colors is it a go, or can there be hidden stutters as its not truly stable even though all say almost every chip can do 2067 FCLK and some more. And like all should do 2000.

What exactly do you mean by stuttering? I am really curious.
Because you can look probably here and at OCN and in 3dmark, I ran Windows 11 on a CHVF-Z mb, FX8320, FX 8350, DDR3 1866mhz and DDR3 2400mhz (all base specs here) with a GTX780, and played Diablo 4 with that system at 75-100fps on a 3440x1440p UW monitor that looked better and was faster than PS4 version. I did burn 1 CHVF-Z mobo with the 8320 pushing over 5ghz close to 300 FSB, a ground trace fried on the backside of the PCB.

I did not have any stuttering in W11 Pro, for normal usage. D4 D3 D2 resurrected and also D1 ran fine. Elden Ring WNL, BG3 ran fine, Last Epoch ran fine, I don't think POE2 was out yet. POE ran fine.
Star Citizen ran surprisingly fine on a 990FX mb with FX8120 and GTX570 way back before that one blew VRM or something. (Played D3 up to necromancer 2nd season)
Never tried Witcher 3 on the 83xx. FS CPU physics test was a slide show, but speedway and steel nomad I have top spots with that particular gear.

I did run the 7900XTX on the CHVF-Z FX8350. there are some of those submissions as well.

But in regular windows environment, browsing, tweaking specs. Playing my preferred games D4 LE. no stutters.

SO I am curious what you mean by stutters? If you would please explain.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What exactly do you mean by stuttering? I am really curious.
Because you can look probably here and at OCN and in 3dmark, I ran Windows 11 on a CHVF-Z mb, FX8320, FX 8350, DDR3 1866mhz and DDR3 2400mhz (all base specs here) with a GTX780, and played Diablo 4 with that system at 75-100fps on a 3440x1440p UW monitor that looked better and was faster than PS4 version. I did burn 1 CHVF-Z mobo with the 8320 pushing over 5ghz close to 300 FSB, a ground trace fried on the backside of the PCB.

I did not have any stuttering in W11 Pro, for normal usage. D4 D3 D2 resurrected and also D1 ran fine. Elden Ring WNL, BG3 ran fine, Last Epoch ran fine, I don't think POE2 was out yet. POE ran fine.
Star Citizen ran surprisingly fine on a 990FX mb with FX8120 and GTX570 way back before that one blew VRM or something. (Played D3 up to necromancer 2nd season)
Never tried Witcher 3 on the 83xx. FS CPU physics test was a slide show, but speedway and steel nomad I have top spots with that particular gear.

I did run the 7900XTX on the CHVF-Z FX8350. there are some of those submissions as well.

But in regular windows environment, browsing, tweaking specs. Playing my preferred games D4 LE. no stutters.

SO I am curious what you mean by stutters? If you would please explain.

Go read the TPU forums; if you can stand having your brain unwrinkled. They allow socket puppet accounts so a small stalwart contingent of Intel supporters can fap over how bad AM5 "actually" is. AMDip is real. Stuttering and other "prevalent" issues on the platform that are almost impossible to fix are real. 1851 is the most underrated platform of all time. Raptor Lake is an absolute bargain. Even LGA 1200 is superior to AM4 (don't ask me how that one tracks 🤣 ) The place is lousy with shills and trolls. The kicker is that some of the staff are the worst culprits. Tell me you take Intel AD money but don't tell me.

You enter a reality distortion field the moment you enter. I have no horse in the race. I bought FX for myself, Devil's Canyon for my kid, because we had different needs and wants. I support competition, it's why I buy ARC GPUs. My son was putting mad hours into ARMA 3, the 4690K overclocked was a much better choice for that. I was giving my money to AMD to help keep them afloat during their darkest hour.

I have head cold so I am probably ranting like a madman. It is simply that I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I read stuff like - "Reason I prefer Intel is primarily because they were on top for so long and they are bigger and have more resources to fix things if they break."

If they have more resources, why are my tax dollars supporting them? GTFOOH with that nonsense.

 

[Wolverine2349]

What exactly do you mean by stuttering? I am really curious.
Because you can look probably here and at OCN and in 3dmark, I ran Windows 11 on a CHVF-Z mb, FX8320, FX 8350, DDR3 1866mhz and DDR3 2400mhz (all base specs here) with a GTX780, and played Diablo 4 with that system at 75-100fps on a 3440x1440p UW monitor that looked better and was faster than PS4 version. I did burn 1 CHVF-Z mobo with the 8320 pushing over 5ghz close to 300 FSB, a ground trace fried on the backside of the PCB.

I did not have any stuttering in W11 Pro, for normal usage. D4 D3 D2 resurrected and also D1 ran fine. Elden Ring WNL, BG3 ran fine, Last Epoch ran fine, I don't think POE2 was out yet. POE ran fine.
Star Citizen ran surprisingly fine on a 990FX mb with FX8120 and GTX570 way back before that one blew VRM or something. (Played D3 up to necromancer 2nd season)
Never tried Witcher 3 on the 83xx. FS CPU physics test was a slide show, but speedway and steel nomad I have top spots with that particular gear.

I did run the 7900XTX on the CHVF-Z FX8350. there are some of those submissions as well.

But in regular windows environment, browsing, tweaking specs. Playing my preferred games D4 LE. no stutters.

SO I am curious what you mean by stutters? If you would please explain.

The birds flying in Red Dead Redemption 2 were slightly stopping then moving. Not like slideshow bad, but deifnitley choppy.

Also Windows desktop sometimes the mouse skipped when dragging Windows around.

On 14700K much smoother and like real life flying birds. Not sure if because of background processes and only 8 cores of similar IPC power to Lion Cove and 10% better IPC than Raptor Cove in Windows with software becoming heavier and MSI Afterburner AV and HWInfo65 running in background??

Or an AMD thing with BIOS AGESA or drivers?? Or the stacked cache as I have also heard other mention in Windows desktop it feels a little less smooth than even vanilla Ryzen 6-8 parts and rumblings maybe its some way NVIDIA drivers interact weird with the cache???

I just do not know. Its frustrating and hard to say.

 

[Thunder 57]

Mr. Shareholder you should be asking him to buy the 285K or 14900K(S) so Intel's margins don't suffer.

Good point! When do we start collecting dividends? Oh wait, Intel suspended those.

Go read the TPU forums; if you can stand having your brain unwrinkled. They allow socket puppet accounts so a small stalwart contingent of Intel supporters can fap over how bad AM5 "actually" is. AMDip is real. Stuttering and other "prevalent" issues on the platform that are almost impossible to fix are real. 1851 is the most underrated platform of all time. Raptor Lake is an absolute bargain. Even LGA 1200 is superior to AM4 (don't ask me how that one tracks 🤣 ) The place is lousy with shills and trolls. The kicker is that some of the staff are the worst culprits. Tell me you take Intel AD money but don't tell me.

You enter a reality distortion field the moment you enter. I have no horse in the race. I bought FX for myself, Devil's Canyon for my kid, because we had different needs and wants. I support competition, it's why I buy ARC GPUs. My son was putting mad hours into ARMA 3, the 4690K overclocked was a much better choice for that. I was giving my money to AMD to help keep them afloat during their darkest hour.

I have head cold so I am probably ranting like a madman. It is simply that I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I read stuff like - "Reason I prefer Intel is primarily because they were on top for so long and they are bigger and have more resources to fix things if they break."

If they have more resources, why are my tax dollars supporting them? GTFOOH with that nonsense.

You are not wrong. I joked about this thread hurting my brain, that thread is something else. 9800X3D garbage! 265k best chip ever! Sales be damned! AMD fanboy this and that.

Oh I almost forgot my favorite; "Socket longevity doesn't matter!". (IOW I hate freedom of choice).

 

[Sgraffite]

What exactly do you mean by stuttering? I am really curious.
Because you can look probably here and at OCN and in 3dmark, I ran Windows 11 on a CHVF-Z mb, FX8320, FX 8350, DDR3 1866mhz and DDR3 2400mhz (all base specs here) with a GTX780, and played Diablo 4 with that system at 75-100fps on a 3440x1440p UW monitor that looked better and was faster than PS4 version. I did burn 1 CHVF-Z mobo with the 8320 pushing over 5ghz close to 300 FSB, a ground trace fried on the backside of the PCB.

I did not have any stuttering in W11 Pro, for normal usage. D4 D3 D2 resurrected and also D1 ran fine. Elden Ring WNL, BG3 ran fine, Last Epoch ran fine, I don't think POE2 was out yet. POE ran fine.
Star Citizen ran surprisingly fine on a 990FX mb with FX8120 and GTX570 way back before that one blew VRM or something. (Played D3 up to necromancer 2nd season)
Never tried Witcher 3 on the 83xx. FS CPU physics test was a slide show, but speedway and steel nomad I have top spots with that particular gear.

I did run the 7900XTX on the CHVF-Z FX8350. there are some of those submissions as well.

But in regular windows environment, browsing, tweaking specs. Playing my preferred games D4 LE. no stutters.

SO I am curious what you mean by stutters? If you would please explain.

Wait, D1 ran fine too? It didn't run that well on my 486dx33 historically. I did discover DevilutionX recently which ports it to a lot of platforms and was even able to run it on a 2005 Power PC Mac. I was impressed it even got ported to that architecture.

I could see an argument for Intel CPU on a laptop for better battery life, if that is still a thing. But otherwise I am not sure what this thread is really about when you have such a clear best option. Have you ever had a clearer better option?

 

[Wolverine2349]

Wait, D1 ran fine too? It didn't run that well on my 486dx33 historically. I did discover DevilutionX recently which ports it to a lot of platforms and was even able to run it on a 2005 Power PC Mac. I was impressed it even got ported to that architecture.

I could see an argument for Intel CPU on a laptop for better battery life, if that is still a thing. But otherwise I am not sure what this thread is really about when you have such a clear best option. Have you ever had a clearer better option?

If only AMD had a CPU with more than 8 cores on one die. Do not like dual CCDs. And oh have to go way way with overkill 16 core part.

Because 12 core part is worse than 8 core parts as they are 2 dual 6 core CCDs and thus only 6 cores with access to vCache.. There is not even an 8 + 4 part

With intel go a step down from highest end no such problem. 24 cores is too much but 8 + 12 is great. But they have their issues too intel in other ways.

Has there ever been a time where the grass is always greener on one side no matter which direction you go.

 

[Sgraffite]

If only AMD had a CPU with more than 8 cores on one die. Do not like dual CCDs. And oh have to go way way with overkill 16 core part.

Because 12 core part is worse than 8 core parts as they are 2 dual 6 core CCDs and thus only 6 cores with access to vCache.. There is not even an 8 + 4 part

With intel go a step down from highest end no such problem. 24 cores is too much but 8 + 12 is great. But they have their issues too intel in other ways.

Has there ever been a time where the grass is always greener on one side no matter which direction you go.

Ok, so you have a clear best option for a gaming CPU, but you filter it out. You add arbitrary criteria such as needs more than 8 cores on one die (but gaming does not need more than 8 cores). Also you add criteria that it needs less than 24 cores on one die. You have now filtered your options down to so few CPUs that currently exist. What alternative to the Intel 265k even exists based on your current criteria?

 

[Thunder 57]

Ok, so you have a clear best option for a gaming CPU, but you filter it out. You then add arbitrary criteria such as needs more than 8 cores on one die (but gaming does not need more than 8 cores). Also you add criteria that it needs less than 24 cores on one die. You have now filtered your options down to so few CPUs that currently exist. What alternative to the Intel 265k even exist based on your current criteria?

I think that's the point. Narrow it down until it fits what he wanted all along. I wonder what the excuse will be when Zen 6 comes along with a 12C CCD. That all of a sudden 12C isn't enough?