"Royal Discounter OEM Software Source" -- anyone familiar with these folks?

[BonzaiDuck]

This topic seems as though it should have either a forum under "Software" or "Merchandise and Shopping" -- it dovetails with both categories.

I trace my geek-i-ness back to 1982. In those days, as copy-protection schemes for install discs emerged, we would break the copy-protection and share software for "training use." If we needed software to make money -- we'd buy it.

Everyone knows the history. CD-license-keys became common; on-line activation became a rule. Serious, responsible people came to the comfortable realization that "theft" and piracy of any kind meant "no customer support," upgrades or fixes. Even ignoring moral grounds for theft of intellectual property, it's better to buy legitimately.

I shop for surplus software; when I can, I purchase OEM install discs and licenses or OEM downloadable. I have to -- to save money. I discovered, for instance, that "academic" versions require customers to provide current employment or enrollment verification (in a school or university), but enforcement of the requirement is between SW publisher and resellers who buy direct from the publisher. If you buy "academic" under those circumstances, you could cease being a teacher or student, continue to use the software, and be eligible for support or upgrade. Similarly, if the reseller buys surplus from schools, they aren't obliged to impose the publisher's "teacher/student-verification" requirement.

I recently stumbled upon this reseller:

http://www.greatest-software.net
also:
http://oem-boutique.net

[aka "Royal Discounter OEM Source" aka "Quality Soft" aka "OEM-boutique"]

Same company -- two different home-pages. Same software offers, same Fairfield, CA address.

The link to the company and "shop" web-site can be found on at least two official "edu" state-university web-sites suggesting bargains for students.

I haven't found any "bizrate" or other reseller ratings. The automated messaging in response to orders indicates (from my vast experience) English-as-a-second-language-to-Chinese, or "marginal scores on the graduate-admissions English-as-a-second-language qualifying exam."

For instance, PurPlus Software (www.purplus.com or .net) is a legitimate software reseller. They offer CorelDraw X4 retail-download for around $220. The enterprise in question offers it for $119+tax. NewEgg offers the retail version of MS Visual Studio Professional 2008 for ~$659; the enterprise in question offers it for <= $100.

Does anyone know anything about this outfit -- "Royal Discounter" or "Quality Soft?"

---

Scam software sites. Whois for greatest-software.net and oem-boutique.net:

WHOIS SUNUCUSU v.10.6
Idari Yonetici / Registrant
(Admin)
Ad / Name Torio Gender
Adres Lania srr. 594 New Calida
Tel 585-291-1998
Faks
E-posta GANGELLxiangq86fm46cjs@hotmail.com
Guncelleme / Updated

Teknik Yetkili / Tech
Ad gizli
Ad / Name Torio Gender
Adres Lania srr. 594 New Calida
Tel 585-291-1998
Faks
E-posta GANGELLxiangq86fm46cjs@hotmail.com
Guncelleme / Updated

Muhasebe Yetkilisi / Billing
Ad gizli
Ad / Name Torio Gender
Adres Lania srr. 594 New Calida
Tel 585-291-1998
Faks
E-posta GANGELLxiangq86fm46cjs@hotmail.com

Harvey
Senior AnandTech Moderator/Administrator

 

[GaryJohnson]

If you check their address in google street view, the building they have a picture of is not at that address. It doesn't appear there is much of anything at that address.

They claim to be MS and Adobe certified partners, but I couldn't find a "Royal Discounter" or "Quality Soft" on either of those companies partner lists.

And then there's this:

1. Why do you sell software cheaper than official brand providers do?

Because buying the software with us you receive the copies of licensed versions downloaded. This means you will have no hard copies of documentation (licenses or instructions) - just files and instructions in .txt format. This software is not registered online. But we can offer you all updates for most of the software. This software is purchased wholesale from official providers whose wholesaling prices are considerably lower. As we do the minimal price markup free of packing, recording, transportation expenses our price is lower than the retail price of official providers.

So it sounds like:
1. They don't provide you with any license documentation.
2. You can't register the software online.
3. They want you to come to them for any software updates.

I found this thread: http://www.blurtit.com/q6665284.html
The consensus seems to be that they are not legit.

Also the only thing in their whois is their registrar: ALANTRON BLTD, which is in Turkey.

I would not buy from them.

 

[king4lex]

From their terms page (http://www.greatest-software.net/info/terms/):

2.5 Software can’t be registered on-line due to the definite limitations;

No legit software sellers that I have ever seen have anything like that as part of their terms.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Generally, I've been a lot more savvy than most in avoiding scams like this one. A person becomes more vulnerable in a probabilistic sense the more extreme their search for "bargains." In the case of this "reseller," the following things are evident:

1] There IS NO "address" of "162 West Texas Street, Fairfield, CA 94533." There IS an address and building for 162 Texas Street, Fairfield, CA 94535. A Google Earth search for THAT address shows a satellite image of a building that matches the characteristics of the picture on the Royal Discouter [aka . . aka . . ] web-site. Further search of Yellow and White Pages on-line shows that this building is located on Travis Air Force Base.

2] The "company" offers "downloads" touted as "OEM" with installation instructions and practices which severely depart from any OEM download or disc that I know of or ever knew of. INSTEAD, the pattern of installation seems identical to that required for unlimited use of pirate-retail-box, pirate-OEM, cracked Evaluation software [with the ubiquitous 120-day limit] or cracked Trial-Version software with similar or shorter limits.

3] Again, repeating my analysis of pricing, some of their offerings would cost in excess of $1,000 retail and would NEVER be bundled with a computer by an OEM manufacturer -- therefore -- there probably and likely are NOT any extant OEM versions of those softwares.

4] The company seems to be engaged in a form of indirect fraud, by charging people by credit-card or PayPal for items the company is not authorized to sell, items obtained through illegitimate means, and items falsely promoted to be legitimate OEM downloads.

5] The quantity or number of the different products offered and the manner of web-page presentation (together with logos suggesting security and legitimacy which haven't the links associated with such logos) -- would leave an impatient potential customer with the impression that the company is legitimate.

WHAT DID I DO?

1] I completed the complaint form at the FBI web-site in spades -- offering the details above and more. [And if anyone else finds a so-called "company" doing these sorts of things as shown by this "Royal Discounter aka Gold-OEM aka OEM-boutique aka Quality Soft Ltd., aka About.Software aka . . . . " -- I would urge the same. You can access the complaint site at either IC3.gov or FBI.gov. Snitch the m***********s OUT!! SNITCH 'EM OUT!!

2] Credit card company was promptly informed by me, and proved adept at transferring legitimate pending charges to a newly-established account with a new number, while blocking and reversing the fraudulent charges. No evidence that "Quality Soft Ltd." engages in Identity Theft, but the charges are FRAUDULENT if they offer a "product" with features of legitimacy which they either stole or misrepresented. In this case -- BOTH.

NEXT TIME FOR ME -- AND ADVISED FOR ALL:

Only order online from companies which have positive customer-ratings from established rating organizations. Barring that, you would have to know something about "hacked" or "cracked" software and piracy -- otherwise, you might go two or three months before you discover that you've been scammed.

What seems to have happened -- per user complaints at NewWin, Blurt-It and HardForum -- users THOUGHT they could legitimately update the software through the "Help" link in the main program window. Instead, the software was recognized for what it was -- kicking back an "expired license key" message.

By that time, whether PayPal, Master Card, VISA or whatever -- it would be long past the time when such charges could be reversed or corrected.

EDIT: . . . . And you'll find my advice and remarks at "Blurt-It."

 

[rumplestilts]

Tried working with them last month. Purchased Parallels Desktop for OSX. The serial number they eMailed me was a temporary one that anyone can get simply by downloading and requesting a trial SN. It was an expired serial number!

They never could get it right and couldn't understand why I was having a problem with what they sent me. I asked for a refund and, after a few days, the credit was posted to my VISA.

I see on my VISA statement that the company is called "Download-Company.org" with the word "Riga" after the name. Riga is in Latvia. I don't think I'll be buying from this company again.

These guys, however - http://www.creationengine.com/ - are great.

 

[GaryJohnson]

I asked for a refund and, after a few days, the credit was posted to my VISA.

I see on my VISA statement that the company is called "Download-Company.org" with the word "Riga" after the name. Riga is in Latvia. I don't think I'll be buying from this company again.

You've given your VISA # to Latvian Software Pirates and you're NOT going to cancel the card and get a new number?

 

[tcsenter]

Its just another variation of the same foreign-based "download OEM software" pirated/illegal software download service that uses about two dozen other domains (maybe more):

http://files-finder.com/
http://oemportal.com/
http://software-users.com/
http://oemsoftwaredownloads.us/

This particular one appears to be ripping-off the name from a legitimate software reseller named "Royal Discount" located in Colorado, which does NOT offer software titles for download that are not authorized by the publisher/vendor:

http://www.royaldiscount.com/ (I've purchased from them several times)

And it appears they are already suffering from the name similarity (which is probably deliberate). The most recent review of the LEGIT Royal Discount on Resellerratings.com appears to be from a disgruntled consumer who was scammed by the NON-LEGIT Royal Discounter site:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Royal_Discount

 

[BonzaiDuck]

So . . . Rumpelstilts -- you say you purchased [got scammed] by the "Royal Discounters" web-site? Someone else said the scam was being run out of Turkey . . . now you tell me it's Latvia.

Tcsenter shows URLs for download sites from which I recognize at least one to which "Royal Discounters" directed me when I downloaded the bogus CorelDraw X4.

As I said before, the amount of product offerings, the design of the web-pages would make you inclined to think it was a legitimate business. But the logos for "Microsoft Certified Partner," "Verisign" and other "badges of security" aren't linked to those entities -- they're just dead graphic images designed into the web-page.

I was lucky -- I got suspicious right away when the download and installation "instructions" explained two extracted folders -- "Step 1 installation" and "Step 2 activation." The instructions tell you to copy a DLL from the Step 2 folder into the installed "Program Files" directory for the program. I already HAD a prior COREL OEM version, and there is no such installation procedure. But I was familiar with this sort of "crack:" a friend and network-administrator had attended training for MS Windows 2000 Advanced Server. The instructor distributed 120-day evaluation discs, and then distributed the "crack" to copy to the OS directory -- circumventing the evaluation deadline. Ostensibly, he did it in the event that the "students" wanted more time to become familiar with the OS, but it was a "crack" nevertheless.

Whether "Latvia" or "Turkey," the defective English used in the e-mail confirmations or the web-pages suggests to me "Chinese-with-English-as-second-language-and-scored-badly-on-graduate-school-English/second-language-exam." The errors in spelling and usage remind me of Chinese grad students I once taught -- but I could be mistaken.

As I said, I completed a complaint at FBI.gov and IC3.gov. There is a business-consortium directed at stopping software piracy, and I'll file my stuff with them, too.

 

[tcsenter]

Here's a few more of the same:

http://www.bondisoftware.org/
http://www.haspsoftware.com/
http://www.mmpsoft.com/

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Here's a few more of the same:

http://www.bondisoftware.org/
http://www.haspsoftware.com/
http://www.mmpsoft.com/

I found about two more that don't seem to be part of the "Quality Soft Ltd" scam, but they're scams, nevertheless.

Here's my analysis of LEGITIMATE OPTIONS:

Before “health-insurance,” the small-town doctor was a price-discriminating monopolist: He’d charge his wealthy patients more and his income-strapped patients less for the same identical service.

Apparently, software publishers are doing the same. There are four market segments: Commercial; OEM; Academic; and Home.

Commercial = “Retail-box.” Buyers pay top-dollar. In return, there is more substantial customer service, and buyers are eligible to upgrade one software version for another by purchasing the “ Upgrade retail-box ” of the newer version instead of the standalone retail-box for the newer version. Availability: Any resellers of software and the publishers themselves.

OEM= Software bundled with “a new computer” by OEM PC manufacturers. No glossy packaging; no printed manual – just a disc or set of discs in white envelopes. Customer-support limited to updates and fixes to current version available on-line; customer-support limited to e-mail answers to questions or “customer-incidents” posted at the web-site – in some cases. Price may be roughly ½ to 2/3 of Retail-box. If an earlier version, then lower than that. Availability: At one time, required purchase of hardware for reseller to meet obligations to publisher. Always distributed as no-frills CD/DVD in white envelope, or more elaborately labeled disc-box from the publisher that is labeled "OEM." Usually, the stock becomes available some months after the software version initial release, as surplus stock moves from OEM's to resellers.

Academic= Most purchases require verification of current status as student/teacher at a qualifying institution. Exceptions occur when a reseller buys surplus from institutions – versus inventory purchased in contract with the software publisher. Price likely to be half retail-box. Packaging: better than OEM. Boxes may be labeled “Not for Commercial Use.” Support limited to current version – no upgrade benefit. Availability: Many resellers -- some specializing in academic sales -- others serving the general software market.

“Home and Student” – similar to academic, but no verification requirement in many instances, even for stock purchased from the software publisher. Boxes may be labeled “Not for Commercial Use.” Support limited to current version – no upgrade benefit. Price similar to Academic. Availability: Boxes may find their way to outlets like COSTCO, Amazon, etc.

In all cases, the software, features, patches, fixes, digital manual, help screens and service-packs are identical. For the “Retail-box”, the software can be obtained through download directly from the publisher or a publisher-approved reseller – who may then mail any manuals (retail-box) or CDs for a nominal $10 addition to charges. But it is unlikely that OEM, Academic or Home versions will be made available for online download.

So any reseller who offers downloads of “OEM” versions is likely to be illegitimate. In all cases, they will be illegitimate if the company’s policy states that “owing to the nature of the software, you cannot register it online,” because all legitimate software can be registered online – whether retail-box, OEM, Academic or Home-and-Student.

Occasionally, you might find a legitimate reseller using a retail box version as a loss-leader – and at a considerable discount. For instance, CorelDraw X4 retail-box at Purplus may be $400; the same product number and retail box at The Nerds.net may be offered for $90+. [It's a real retail-box; it's legitimate. It may reflect the pricing some resellers receive before mark-up.]

Just don’t hold your breath . . . .

 

[nixfan226]

This website(s) is a scam. I paid $95 for a copy of Windows 7 OEM and they sent me a link for a download but provided no serial. When I emailed the Help Desk for the serial, the sent me these instructions indicating that this "OEM software requires a special activation" and to follow the following steps:

[FONT=&quot]. Switch off all running programs (including antivirus)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]. Download and run : http://76.73.37.18/distpub/Microsoft/activate.7.exe[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]. Do not press any key until reboot.[/FONT]

First of all, what legitimate software requires you to shut off all of your security software? That was an immediate red flag. I opened the file on my test machine and found out that the download is actually a crack file for a software called Windows Loader used to bypass the Windows activation. A quick Google search brought up this info here: http://bit.ly/cMFkQa. Of course, my follow-up email has gone unanswered and the phone number provided is useless, being answered by a voicemail.

The company is going by the names Royal Software on their website. The address in the "About Us" page seems to be a virtual workplace located at 300 Atlantic Street in Stamford Connecticut, but who actuially know where they are. Some in teh forum indicate Turkey...some Latvia.

The company has active websites under the following names/links:
http://royal-customers.net (aka Royal Software)
http://excellent-software.net (aka Royal Software)
http://greatest-software.net (aka Quality Software)
http://oem-boutique.net/ (aka Quality Software)

Since I paid with my CC, I stopped payment and flagged the sites as fraudulent. I also filed a report with the Better Business Bureau, flagged the site to Microsoft (I originally called to verify the sites Microsoft Gold Partner claims) fraud department and am writing on every forum I get an opportunity to.

It's a harsh lesson, especially considering I am not some computer newbie. Fortunately, my credit card has fraud protection (as most do these days) and I was able to get the charge removed immediately.