Roy Taylor: AMD is a starfish and Intel a whale

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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
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I don't know how you can say AMD has only the bottom of the GPU market. They sell high-end cards.

And they try to sell a new nearly $1000 processor,too. ;)

What he didn't tell you was how Nvidia counts their "GPU" revenue. Here is how -

So, it's okay for AMD but not for nVidia?
The Graphics and Visual Solutions segment, comprised of graphic processing units (GPUs), including professional graphics, as well as revenue from semi-custom products and development and game console royalties.
Man, you did it again. :awe:

Oh and what's up with that:

In addition to the two reporting segments discussed above, the “All Other” category represents unallocated revenue and expenses which primarily includes licensing revenue from our patent cross licensing agreement with Intel Corporation.
I guess it was only a mistake, gell?

By the end of this year AMD's graphics products will have higher revenue than Nvidia's. In many ways they already do of course, as APU's aren't included in their segment results.
So, we count now every AMD product to their "graphics products"? :|
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
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Yes AMD counts graphics products whereas Nvidia counts graphics products, license revenue and memory. It used to include chipset as well if I recall. There is quite a clear difference between both companies, for example Nvidia counting revenue that isn't related to graphics or actual graphics products being the obvious one.

So there's the reason why Nvidia has more than 2x the graphics revenues. Let's see how that looks by the end of the year after the console cash starts coming in for AMD.

As for counting APU's as part of revenue, I see no reason why not considering the graphics portion is half of the chip.
 
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Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
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Using a discrete card on top of the intel IGP doesn't disable it (not mine at least), I guess that must be due to quick sync.

It probably depends on your BIOS settings.

It's moot either way, the claim that Steam's hardware survey is counting IGPs that aren't actually being used doesn't add up at all.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,362
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It probably depends on your BIOS settings.

It's moot either way, the claim that Steam's hardware survey is counting IGPs that aren't actually being used doesn't add up at all.

I dont expect you believe that every Intel CPU on Steam has an iGPU, do you ?? There are people with older CPUs (Core 2, Core 2Q, first gen Core i5 and Core i7 or even older) that dont have iGPUs. Just because Intel CPUs on Steam are 73,5% doesnt mean they all have iGPUs. Dont forget that 47,3% of the CPUs are dual cores. Im sure most of them are Core 2 and not Core i3.

But its funny to read that people buy Intel HD graphics from gaming but they dont buy AMD APUs for gaming. :rolleyes:
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
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I dont expect you believe that every Intel CPU on Steam has an iGPU, do you ?? There are people with older CPUs (Core 2, Core 2Q, first gen Core i5 and Core i7 or even older) that dont have iGPUs. Just because Intel CPUs on Steam are 73,5% doesnt mean they all have iGPUs. Dont forget that 47,3% of the CPUs are dual cores. Im sure most of them are Core 2 and not Core i3.

But its funny to read that people buy Intel HD graphics from gaming but they dont buy AMD APUs for gaming. :rolleyes:

No, I don't believe that every Intel CPU on Steam has an IGP. I do believe that more than 16% of them do. Which is already a highball number from the statistics, when you consider that some of the Intel GPUs listed are motherboard IGPs.

But if you're so confident that the Intel GPU numbers are being counted for people who aren't using Intel GPUs go ahead and ask Steam, I'm sure they'll confirm it one way or the other.

As for so many of those dual core CPUs being Core 2 instead of something with an IGP (which is more than just one of four generations of Core-i3, there's also Pentiums and Celerons that fall under that category), I think the statistic of HT at 42.33% brings that into serious question.

And so we're clear I never said that people don't buy AMD APUs for gaming. And yet it's Roy Taylor himself who is saying IGPs (which should apply to both AMD and Intel) are being pursued for compute! But I guess it figures that the guy who said CPUs are dead would say things like this.
 
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mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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Yes AMD counts graphics products whereas Nvidia counts graphics products, license revenue and memory. It used to include chipset as well if I recall. There is quite a clear difference between both companies, for example Nvidia counting revenue that isn't related to graphics or actual graphics products being the obvious one.

Actually nowadays both companies use the same parameters to account for GPU revenues, but it wasn't always like that.

Nvidia counted IP license as GPU revenues, mainly the PS3 here. Once they settled with Intel, they started to put revenues on this basket. The professional business was reported in a different segment, now it's in the same GPU umbrella. As for chipsets, it wasn't under the GPU umbrella, it was Nvidia PCB segment, it was moved to GPU only when revenues became insignificant. So essentially Nvidia counts every GPU and every license revenue as GPU revenue.

AMD is a more straightfoward issue. They always put everything related to graphics under the Graphics umbrella, including license revenue (XB360 and Wii/Wii U) and their professional business (more or less insignificant FWIW).

So up until this quarter you can draw a direct comparison between the GPU segments of both companies.
 

OatisCampbell

Senior member
Jun 26, 2013
302
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He has a very valid message mostly because of Intel's double duty as a fab and design company. They have a massive amount of capex and foundry costs that must be paid for. AMD only has to pay for R&D, they have muuuuch less infrastructure weighing them down. If the desktop market shrinks and Intel doesn't change their attack plan, they are left with fabs which have more or less static costs, and profits which are smaller. Without large volumes and high margins, Intel could have a tough time with all of their foundry "baggage". Just something to consider, as Intel is more vulnerable to weaker profits in comparison to AMD at the moment I would say. AMD can lay off employees, close an office maybe, Intel would possibly have to close an extremely expensive investment in a fab, or possibly start contracting fab work out (and lose their competitive advantage).

None of this makes any sense.

A. In the plunging PC market of Q1 2013, intels profits shrunk from $3B, to $2B. AMD lost $100m. When you are making $2B per quarter profit, it's a long, long way to losing $100m.

B. intel has 86% of the PC market, and a large advantage in process and performance. They also have many billions in the bank. If threatened by "dropping profits", they can lower prices until AMD can't compete at all anymore. Then they could raise them to whatever they want.

C. intel is among the world leaders of fabbing. Anyone else doing a chip as complex as a 4770K at 22nm? Nope. Every silicon design house in the world would love to have intel cooking chips for them. That is a bigger deal than "we're selling 4m low end APUs to the console guys a year".

D. AMD has already laid off tens of thousands, sold their buildings, sold their fab, etc etc etc.. You get to a point where you need to keep some people around to do the work. An ex-AMD engineer has already told us Bulldozer turned out worse than expected because there were far too few human engineers, and it relied far too heavily on computers for design. (which really annoyed me, I buy AMD when I can because of point B)

E. intel already has changed their attack plan. Look at what they're doing with graphics, power, IPC, and diversification.

That guy Roy's analogy just doesn't fly in my opinion. The desktop market has slowed down a lot because CPUs have been good enough for 99% of office apps since C2D days so Ma and Pa don't need to upgrade anymore and haven't for a long time.

However; businesses are on 2-5 year refresh cycles and they buy 86% intel, and I don't see that switching.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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That guy Roy's analogy just doesn't fly in my opinion. The desktop market has slowed down a lot because CPUs have been good enough for 99% of office apps since C2D days so Ma and Pa don't need to upgrade anymore and haven't for a long time.

Don't worry, in 2-5 yrs he'll have changed jobs again, probably be working for Intel and doing interviews in which he'll claim that being a whale is the safest place to be in business :|
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
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Don't worry, in 2-5 yrs he'll have changed jobs again, probably be working for Intel and doing interviews in which he'll claim that being a whale is the safest place to be in business :|
FUNNY! (In this economy probably true)