Roy Taylor: AMD is a starfish and Intel a whale

[NTMBK]

/btw: Why would Intel ignore 20% of the PC market and going instead into a much more complicated market? Makes no sense.

Apparently it makes sense to Intel, because that's what they're doing...

 

[BallaTheFeared]

One difference, AMD only design the APU of the Consoles, NVIDIA Design, Manufacture and SELL the Shiled.

That is, they are selling a finished PRODUCT for non PC Gamers.

Ironically one of the biggest features of the device is to stream content from your GeForce PC to your big screen TV and control it with this device.

 

[SiliconWars]

Funny that you always bring up other companies when we talking about AMD.

Like Nvidia and Intel that you mentioned in the same post?

Makes me wonder if we have someone here who has a close connection to AMD. :hmm:

I'm sure I read about a new AMD community manager recently.

/btw: Why would Intel ignore 20% of the PC market and going instead into a much more complicated market? Makes no sense. But i guess you need a scenario to distract the viewer from the AMD rep who thinks that neather Intel nor nVidia will evolve and going after the rest of the market if they need to do it to survive.

Why would Intel stagnate desktop like they are? Why would Intel lose $3 billion in 2 years chasing mobile when they could have lost it knocking out AMD in the last 20%?

Why would Nvidia lose half a billion on Tegra when they could have lost half a billion on GPU by offerering much cheaper prices at the low end, pressuring AMD?

 

[ShintaiDK]

So I guess this was all Nvidia's fault too?

Nvidia's Roy Taylor: Nobody Cares About ATI
Nvidia declares the CPU dead

Or is it just another twitter hero who likes the sound of their own opinion just a bit too much? Roy Taylor is and always has been a total wind-up merchant.

nVidia PR have been terrible for along time to put it mildly. Fully agree there.

The problem is PR wise that he is not being gagged. AMD have a long series of PR disasters. Remember something like this?
http://shintai.ambition.cz/amd.pdf

I still ask myself how could that even happen.

Or Phenom is 50% faster than Core 2 or the famous Bulldozer talk. It makes it impossible to take anything AMD says seriously, when they have lunatics like this running around. Its not small misses. Its simply transdimensional.

In the entire interview, the only AMD positive thing he could say was essentially soon more AMD bundled games and BF4. There is 1000 another things he could have used the interview on putting AMD in the positive spot. Yet he completely missed the oppotunity.

 

[SiliconWars]

Shintai, the "problem" here is you spend too much time looking for AMD guys making "PR disasters". In all that time you could find what, 3 or 4? In how many years?

If I was sad enough I'd go do a lengthy search on the nonsense coming out of Intel over the past decade and I'm sure I'd be able to create a very long list of utter BS. Who can forget Mooly playing F1, all the crap Gelsinger and Otellini were talking about Larrabee? 10GHz anyone?

You can't blame the whole company on a few individuals who like to make noise. If anything the Intel stuff is a LOT worse as it was coming from the very top.

 

[sontin]

Like Nvidia and Intel that you mentioned in the same post?

Makes sense because this is a thread about an interview of an AMD rep who was talking about Intel and nVidia. :awe:

Why would Intel stagnate desktop like they are? Why would Intel lose $3 billion in 2 years chasing mobile when they could have lost it knocking out AMD in the last 20%?

Because we talking about the bottom of the CPU market. A market with 39% gross margins. Way down from Intel's ~58% from last quarter.
On the other hand: If they need this revenue they will go after it to stop the revenue decrease.

Why would Nvidia lose half a billion on Tegra when they could have lost half a billion on GPU by offerering much cheaper prices at the low end, pressuring AMD?

...
Because the mobile market has a much better grow potential than the graphics market?! :|
BTW: Like the cpu market AMD has only the bottom of the GPU market. Revenue is $320 millions and less than half of what nVidia has with their gpu business. If the market will shrink in the future then nVidia will go after the rest of it.

But until then Intel and nVidia will not sacrifice their gross margins for the bottom and instead invest their money into other markets.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You can't blame the whole company on a few individuals who like to make noise. If anything the Intel stuff is a LOT worse as it was coming from the very top.

Dont tell me Roy, John and so on didnt have full backup from the top.

 

[frozentundra123456]

All you have to do is look at how he never answers the first question about how APUs are doing to see that it will be a worthless interview. The question was obviously meant in regards to AMDs apus, but he avoids answering by saying intels cpus are apus too, so apus are doing great.

 

[SiliconWars]

Dont tell me Roy, John and so on didnt have full backup from the top.

Why would they? In actual fact JF was told to lay-off the forum posting from the top!

 

[AtenRa]

What I do know is that Steam surveys show plenty of people are using Intel IGPs to play games.

Steam Survey measures the Intel and AMD iGPUs no matter if you have a dGPU in your system. Dont count Intels iGPU numbers on Steam Surveys .

Intel IGPs have more or less surpassed them.

The only Intel iGPU that surpassed them is GT3/e and that is not available on the Desktop yet, not to count the price difference between Trinity/Richland and Core i5/i7 GT3/e in both Mobile and Desktop.

And finally I know that the gap between AMD and Intel's IGPs has shrunk,

See above, Haswell GT2 (soon on Core i3) still loosing to Richland big time. And dont forget that Trinity/Ritchland is one year old already.

so maybe you should extend your question to ask who bought Llano, Trinity, and Richland for gaming? Maybe AMD really is pursuing GPGPU here but that's surely not what people are evaluating with those either.

The majority of people bought Llano, Trinity and Ritchland for the iGPU (gaming and GPGPU). The majority of Core i3/i5/i7 Sandy, Ivy and Haswell bought them for the CPU.

As for your question about who will spend $350+ for Haswell GT3 for gaming, the answer is pretty easy: someone who is buying a laptop for that CPU, and who wants acceptable gaming with good battery life. Or to put it another way, someone buying a Macbook Pro.

How much does the Macbook Pro with GT3e costs ??? Also, does anyone will buy GT3 for Desktop gaming when the CPU alone cost 350+ and you cant upgrade that later ???

Now, do you have any information on how much GPGPU is actually being utilized on these processors?

Doesn't look good for Intel, Kaveri will even widen the performance lead further.

Doesn't look good for Intel

 

[AtenRa]

Ironically one of the biggest features of the device is to stream content from your GeForce PC to your big screen TV and control it with this device.

You can do that with any Tablet

http://www.splashtop.com/home

 

[skipsneeky2]

If the Never settle forever bundle mentioned in that article coming this month includes BF4,i am switching from a upcoming gtx760 to a 7950.:biggrin:

Anyone got any ideas about what games may be included?

Even the bundle name sounds epic,it has to be forever meaning like huge.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Doesn't look good for Intel, Kaveri will even widen the performance lead further.

What performance lead? Even GT2 beats AMD in CL.
http://www.clbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?config_0=15996068&config_1=16495708

Kaveri wont even ship this year. And might first hit retail close to Broadwell.

 

[cbrunny]

Bigger companies are more susceptible to market shifts. Yep. Not really groundbreaking.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

It is a cute analogy but it really has nothing to do with how the economics of business work out.

This 1000x just because you can make an analogy doesn't make it true (people making crap analogies is a pet peeve of mine actually).

 

[insertcarehere]

Steam Survey measures the Intel and AMD iGPUs no matter if you have a dGPU in your system. Dont count Intels iGPU numbers on Steam Surveys.

By that logic, AMD igpu numbers on steam surveys should not count as well, as I am sure at least some of these systems will have dgpus as well.

 

[skipsneeky2]

A car analogy would have been better,thought it was funny that the best analogy was a star fish and a whale.

 

[sushiwarrior]

He has a very valid message mostly because of Intel's double duty as a fab and design company. They have a massive amount of capex and foundry costs that must be paid for. AMD only has to pay for R&D, they have muuuuch less infrastructure weighing them down. If the desktop market shrinks and Intel doesn't change their attack plan, they are left with fabs which have more or less static costs, and profits which are smaller. Without large volumes and high margins, Intel could have a tough time with all of their foundry "baggage". Just something to consider, as Intel is more vulnerable to weaker profits in comparison to AMD at the moment I would say. AMD can lay off employees, close an office maybe, Intel would possibly have to close an extremely expensive investment in a fab, or possibly start contracting fab work out (and lose their competitive advantage).

 

[AtenRa]

By that logic, AMD igpu numbers on steam surveys should not count as well, as I am sure at least some of these systems will have dgpus as well.

Some of them yes, but the large majority are APUs alone.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
Just dont tell me that Intel HD3000 is the number one GPU people use to game on Steam

 

[Phynaz]

How many Sandybridge, IvyBridge and Haswell desktop onwers do you know that they play games with threir iGPUs ??

Several.

Number of people I know that play games on their AMD iGPUs - Zero.

 

[Exophase]

Steam Survey measures the Intel and AMD iGPUs no matter if you have a dGPU in your system. Dont count Intels iGPU numbers on Steam Surveys .

So you think it counts you as having both GPUs? Or you think it just picks the IGP regardless of whether or not you're using the discrete GPU... even when it's disabled in the BIOS? It's amazing you believe such an incorrect thing, when it's easy to see that Steam Surveys show 73.5% are using Intel CPUs but only 11.7% are listed as using Intel graphics.

And yes, HD 3000 really is the number one on Steam, but that doesn't really mean anything more than that Intel has much, much fewer different GPU models than the competition so it's just a very weak plurality. Look at the actual aggregate numbers, not the pointless rankings.

The only Intel iGPU that surpassed them is GT3/e and that is not available on the Desktop yet, not to count the price difference between Trinity/Richland and Core i5/i7 GT3/e in both Mobile and Desktop.

I said gap is closing, never used the word surpassed at all. All I'm saying is that they're close enough to be considered similar class when talking about viability for gaming.

The majority of people bought Llano, Trinity and Ritchland for the iGPU (gaming and GPGPU). The majority of Core i3/i5/i7 Sandy, Ivy and Haswell bought them for the CPU.

This is another argument I never made, although it's not like what you're saying is based on statistics either. It doesn't matter if they bought it "for the CPU" or not, the question is how many of them use it for gaming.

How much does the Macbook Pro with GT3e costs ??? Also, does anyone will buy GT3 for Desktop gaming when the CPU alone cost 350+ and you cant upgrade that later ???

I didn't actually say Macbook Pro with GT3e but GT3. The point is, if no one cares about gaming and GT3 is just as useless as GT2 then why does it even exist? Why is Apple using the bigger die on their laptops?

Doesn't look good for Intel, Kaveri will even widen the performance lead further.

I'm sorry, I must not have been very clear with you. I wanted information on how many people are using GPGPU in their APUs, not how the performance compares. You know, since the argument is that they're being done for GPGPU not gaming, and in your words no one even plays games on them.

 

[SiliconWars]

So you think it counts you as having both GPUs? Or you think it just picks the IGP regardless of whether or not you're using the discrete GPU... even when it's disabled in the BIOS? It's amazing you believe such an incorrect thing, when it's easy to see that Steam Surveys show 73.5% are using Intel CPUs but only 11.7% are listed as using Intel graphics.

Using a discrete card on top of the intel IGP doesn't disable it (not mine at least), I guess that must be due to quick sync.

All I'm saying is that they're close enough to be considered similar class when talking about viability for gaming.

I would disagree with this. The AMD APU's generally hit 30fps average, the Intel ones generally don't.

 

[bullzz]

@AtenRa

not all gamers use desktops. most laptops sell without dPGU. people who buy these, although are playing on crappy resolutions, do game as well. sandy bridge in laptops was a big success. so HD3000 being at the top does not surprise me

 

[VirtualLarry]

BTW: Like the cpu market AMD has only the bottom of the GPU market. Revenue is $320 millions and less than half of what nVidia has with their gpu business

I don't know how you can say AMD has only the bottom of the GPU market. They sell high-end cards.

Or are you referring to the fact that NV has $1000 cards, whereas AMD's high-end cards are more like $700-800?

 

[SiliconWars]

I don't know how you can say AMD has only the bottom of the GPU market. They sell high-end cards.

Or are you referring to the fact that NV has $1000 cards, whereas AMD's high-end cards are more like $700-800?

What he didn't tell you was how Nvidia counts their "GPU" revenue. Here is how -

Our GPU business leverages our GPU technology across multiple end markets. It now comprises of four primary product lines, including GeForce for desktop and notebook PCs and Macs; Quadro for professional workstations; Tesla for high-performance servers and workstations; and NVIDIA GRID for server graphics solutions. It also includes other related products, licenses and revenue supporting the GPU business, such as memory products.

So that's everything except Tegra, basically (including ~$250m a year from Intel's licensing fee).

By the end of this year AMD's graphics products will have higher revenue than Nvidia's. In many ways they already do of course, as APU's aren't included in their segment results.