Roundabouts

[bradly1101]

In my city on Pacific Coast Highway there is one where it meets two other boulevards. It's a challenging drive with no marked lanes or lights, and everyone is expected to merge in, go around to their destination, and exit. God help you if you don't stick to the perimeter, it's three lanes wide. It has caused tons of accidents (or rather the confusion of drivers did). Cops patrol it like hawks, waiting for you not to signal a merge or an exit. There's a local urban legend that the guy who designed it died on it. Mythical, sadistic, poetic justice.

A friend shared on FB a lunch place he was eating at today that included a map (as those posts do) with "The Circle" nearby. I said, "Even seeing The Circle on a map brings me anxiety, much less hurtling toward it down one of its arteries."

Just up the street are three streets that come together (none terminating like on the roundabout) that are controlled by lights and lanes with no drama. Which got me to asking, why do this?

The one that works (upper right):

 

[bradly1101]

To avoid it I always take Ximeno (pronounced him-en-o, but locals always say egg-zim-ino).

 

[Chaotic42]

Traffic circles are great in certain circumstances, but that doesn't look like one of them. I'm a big believer in the idea that if your traffic circle needs more than one lane, it's not going to be ideal.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Mythbusters did a segment on roundabouts vs 4-way stops and concluded that roundabouts were better for moving more cars through the intersection safely in less time. And traffic safety studies show that the crashes in roundabouts are less severe than somebody blowing through a stop sign because the crashes are more of a glancing blow. So properly done, they probably are better. But familiarity is a big help. We don't see traffic circles much, if at all, in a lot of the country and like anything else you get better with practice. If drivers only hit one a year then yeah, it's going to look like a clusterfuck. But that's more on user error and less on the road itself.

 

[Ichinisan]

I linked the Mythbusters video in my thread about roundabouts:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/roundabout-vs-4-way.2346361/

https://www.wimp.com/mythbusters-four-way-stop-vs-roundabout/

The roundabout in my town is the best thing ever.

1 lane. 1 rule: Yield to traffic in the circle. Whenever someone in front of me stops for no reason (treating it like a 4-way stop), I always honk the horn at them. They're defeating the whole point by stopping for no reason.

 

[KMFJD]

Yeah i seriously wish we had more of them and less stop lights

 

[sportage]

I'm glad someone else has issues with round-abouts (sb, round-about got into a wreck).
Truly nuts, BUT I believe they originated over in Europe or somewhere other than here?
Problem is, on the one hand no one trusts who has the right away and on the other hand there are those that blindly fly thru them.
Those that just don't look, don't consider others that have or might be entering the round-bout, and they blindly fly thru not caring if they die or you die.
And I don't get it...
What's so bad about the good old reliable American-made 4-way stop?
When did that become obsolete?
Trump should look into this because this the round-about is just down right unAmerican.
Only a foreigner or a drunkard, or both could have thought this up.
Probably some moron that thought, HOW CAN I RE-DESIGN THE 4-WAY STOP?
While looking at the beer mark made on the bar by his beer bottle, I KNOW, A CIRCLE.
They make no sense.
If you are to be safe you stop anyway for on-coming circling traffic, and to stop anyway why not simply stick with the 4-way stop?
Hey, lets all get drunk and redesign the shoe.
I'm thinking something web-toed like a duck. Flop Flop Flop

 

[Ichinisan]

I'm glad someone else has issues with round-abouts (sb, round-about got into a wreck).
Truly nuts, BUT I believe they originated over in Europe or somewhere other than here?
Problem is, on the one hand no one trusts who has the right away and on the other hand there are those that blindly fly thru them.
Those that just don't look, don't consider others that have or might be entering the round-bout, and they blindly fly thru not caring if they die or you die.
And I don't get it...
What's so bad about the good old reliable American-made 4-way stop?
When did that become obsolete?
Trump should look into this because this the round-about is unAmerican.
Only a foreigner or a drunkard, or both could have thought this up.
Probably some moron that thought, HOW CAN I RE-DESIGN THE 4-WAY STOP?
While looking at the beer mark made on the bar by his beer bottle, I KNOW, A CIRCLE.
They make no sense.
If you are to be safe you stop anyway for on-coming circling traffic, and to stop anyway why not simply stick with the 4-way stop?
Hey, lets all get drunk and redesign the shoe.
I'm thinking something web-toed like a duck.

/facepalm

A basic one-lane roundabout is simple. It's actually simpler than a 4-way stop: Just yield to the traffic in the circle. If there's nothing coming, DO NOT treat it as a 4-way stop. If you see someone enter without stopping and think "WHOAH! That person just blew right through!" --then it would be you that needs to learn how to use a roundabout.

Even though a lot of idiots still treat it like a 4-way stop in my town, it has still MASSIVELY improved the traffic situation. We need more.

 

[lxskllr]

/facepalm

A basic one-lane roundabout is simple. It's actually simpler than a 4-way stop: Just yield to the traffic in the circle. If there's nothing coming, DO NOT treat it as a 4-way stop. If you see someone enter without stopping and think "WHOAH! That person just blew right through!" --then it would be you that needs to learn how to use a roundabout.

Even though a lot of idiots still treat it like a 4-way stop in my town, it has still MASSIVELY improved the traffic situation. We need more.

I'm a fan also. There's a new one on my morning commute that isn't quite finished yet, but it has a clever design. It's a four way intersection, and they created ramps for the right hand turns so you don't even have to enter the circle if you're going on the section immediately to your right. It takes a bit of load off the circle proper, and should keep things moving better.

 

[RichUK]

How to confuse an American - roundabout.

 

[feralkid]

I'm glad someone else has issues with round-abouts (sb, round-about got into a wreck).
Truly nuts, BUT I believe they originated over in Europe or somewhere other than here?
Problem is, on the one hand no one trusts who has the right away and on the other hand there are those that blindly fly thru them.
Those that just don't look, don't consider others that have or might be entering the round-bout, and they blindly fly thru not caring if they die or you die.
And I don't get it...
What's so bad about the good old reliable American-made 4-way stop?
When did that become obsolete?
Trump should look into this because this the round-about is just down right unAmerican.
Only a foreigner or a drunkard, or both could have thought this up.
Probably some moron that thought, HOW CAN I RE-DESIGN THE 4-WAY STOP?
While looking at the beer mark made on the bar by his beer bottle, I KNOW, A CIRCLE.
They make no sense.
If you are to be safe you stop anyway for on-coming circling traffic, and to stop anyway why not simply stick with the 4-way stop?
Hey, lets all get drunk and redesign the shoe.
I'm thinking something web-toed like a duck. Flop Flop Flop

Clues inside: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout

 

[Murloc]

it's scientifically proven that roundabouts are in general better than interesections and especially traffic lights. Obviously there's a problem with old drivers who can't change their habits/can't learn new stuff anymore but you can't stop progress because of that.

The problem is that the roundabout has to be appropriately sized so that

1. in the ideal situation (no oncoming car) you can coast through it with minimal braking

2. there's no conflict between people entering and exiting the roundabout, that means proper spacing of entrances and exit, so that traffic remains fluid and no braking happens

what this means for complex intersections, is that you'd need a huge roundabout, with 2 lanes to support the heavy traffic and the large number of exits and entrances. This brings urban planning problems, in my city they didn't plan properly and we have a crater that has been unusued for years, now they're gonna build something maybe.

In these extreme cases, I agree that sometimes it's just not worth it.

Boulevards make intersections hard anyway.

 

[deadlyapp]

I actually always thought that roundabout in long Beach was well designed. A couple of dedicated right turn options and a well spaced roundabout. The problem is the stupid people who use it and their inability to handle multiple inputs at once. It's like people forget to use their mirrors and head these days.

 

[Ichinisan]

I'm a fan also. There's a new one on my morning commute that isn't quite finished yet, but it has a clever design. It's a four way intersection, and they created ramps for the right hand turns so you don't even have to enter the circle if you're going on the section immediately to your right. It takes a bit of load off the circle proper, and should keep things moving better.

There's another one in my town like that. I think it's inferior because it complicates getting in or out of the circle when you're contending with vehicles that never entered the circle. That said, it's still better and less complicated than a 4-way stop.

 

[preCRT]

Screw this 'roundabout' crap. They are ROTARIES, and we've had them here in Massachusetts forever, they work well [except for morons who shouldn't be driving anywhere].

 

[Thebobo]

it's scientifically proven that roundabouts are in general better than interesections and especially traffic lights. Obviously there's a problem with old drivers who can't change their habits/can't learn new stuff anymore but you can't stop progress because of that.
.

Roundabouts have been around for a century, long before you were born sunny. The problem is with young "I know it all" divers who because they know it all and refuse to admit that they are in error and drive all willy-nilly all over the place.

Now get off my road!

 

[feralkid]

Screw this 'roundabout' crap. They are ROTARIES, and we've had them here in Massachusetts forever, they work well [except for morons who shouldn't be driving anywhere].

Not quite.

http://www.virginiadot.org/info/res...odern_Roundabouts_and_Old_Traffic_Circles.pdf

 

[bradly1101]

Mythbusters did a segment on roundabouts vs 4-way stops and concluded that roundabouts were better for moving more cars through the intersection safely in less time. And traffic safety studies show that the crashes in roundabouts are less severe than somebody blowing through a stop sign because the crashes are more of a glancing blow. So properly done, they probably are better. But familiarity is a big help. We don't see traffic circles much, if at all, in a lot of the country and like anything else you get better with practice. If drivers only hit one a year then yeah, it's going to look like a clusterfuck. But that's more on user error and less on the road itself.

Due to the more regulated routes around the circle, including the parallel, circular Outer Circle Drive, the only people to use it seem to be the hapless non-locals travelling north or south on Pacific Coast Highway. It still handles a lot of traffic, but no more than the other busy intersections, including the three-way just north of it, and the many others on PCH. It's the only challenge like that in its 656 mi. length as far as I know, from Dana Point (between LA and San Diego) to Mendocino County nearing Oregon. Bam, you're in the thick of it.

Lights (not stop signs) would have been a better, less stylish and confusing solution (IMO).

 

[MrSquished]

Due to the more regulated routes around the circle, including the parallel, circular Outer Circle Drive, the only people to use it seem to be the hapless non-locals travelling north or south on Pacific Coast Highway. It still handles a lot of traffic, but no more than the other busy intersections, including the three-way just north of it, and the many others on PCH. It's the only challenge like that in its 656 mi. length as far as I know, from Dana Point (between LA and San Diego) to Mendocino County nearing Oregon. Bam, you're in the thick of it.

Lights (not stop signs) would have been a better, less stylish and confusing solution (IMO).

He didn't say that roundabouts are better in every situation, but in general they are, when done properly. AKA knowing when not to use one.

 

[bradly1101]

I'm glad someone else has issues with round-abouts (sb, round-about got into a wreck).
Truly nuts, BUT I believe they originated over in Europe or somewhere other than here?
Problem is, on the one hand no one trusts who has the right away and on the other hand there are those that blindly fly thru them.
Those that just don't look, don't consider others that have or might be entering the round-bout, and they blindly fly thru not caring if they die or you die.
And I don't get it...
What's so bad about the good old reliable American-made 4-way stop?
When did that become obsolete?
Trump should look into this because this the round-about is just down right unAmerican.
Only a foreigner or a drunkard, or both could have thought this up.
Probably some moron that thought, HOW CAN I RE-DESIGN THE 4-WAY STOP?
While looking at the beer mark made on the bar by his beer bottle, I KNOW, A CIRCLE.
They make no sense.
If you are to be safe you stop anyway for on-coming circling traffic, and to stop anyway why not simply stick with the 4-way stop?
Hey, lets all get drunk and redesign the shoe.
I'm thinking something web-toed like a duck. Flop Flop Flop

Of course lights work better than stop signs on high traffic routes, still I'd rather wait a while than take the risk, Funeral for a Friend is on the radio.

 

[bradly1101]

it's scientifically proven that roundabouts are in general better than interesections and especially traffic lights.

There's only one in my town, despite the confusion, tickets, and accidents, they haven't built anymore since its creation in the early thirties despite their "scientifically proven superiority."

"In 1930, German engineer Werner Ruchti was contracted to design the traffic circle, which was to be based on European models. Construction was expedited in order to accommodate the increased vehicle traffic that was expected with the 1932 Summer Olympics, held in Los Angeles, as many of the aquatic and rowing events were to be held in Long Beach

The "Los Alamitos" Traffic Circle was one of the first of its kind to be constructed in the United States, and prior to their truncation, was also an end point of US 6 (which connects Provincetown, Massachusetts some 3,227 miles (5,193 km) to the east) and US 91."

I learned that most of its drivers are commuters. My mistake.

 

[purbeast0]

I love roundabouts when I use them in other countries. They are great and way better than having to come to a complete stop. They simply don't work in the USA (at least in the DMV area) because the drivers are fucking terrible and everyone is texting while driving not paying attention to wtf they have to do.

 

[bradly1101]

Strike that; I have driven a much smaller and more recent circle that replaced a 4-way stop on a nearby residential street. It still causes confusion since people, despite the signage, don't know when to yield or when not to. Its tight circle must be driven around very slowly due to its circumference. It may shave off a second or two over the stop sign, and after all, we don't live indefinite lives. There's an attractively landscaped island in the middle, keeping the circular lane narrow. Sometimes design can exceed usefulness (IMO).

I'l never forget the mangle of badly damaged cars I saw on the big circle on PCH, where it seemed a driver going down one of the connecting streets hadn't slowed down or yielded for the circle (maybe drunk). Police reports, injury, insurance involvement, monies paid, rising premiums, frustration, sadness. Seems worth the short time saved.

 

[MtnMan]

Roundabouts work great when people know how to navigate them. We don't have any big multi-lane roundabouts here which would be a complete cluster fuck.

I see far too many people that seem to think the yield sign as you enter really means; "in there is a car anywhere in the roundabout you must come to a complete stop"

 

[Ichinisan]

Strike that; I have driven a much smaller and more recent circle that replaced a 4-way stop on a nearby residential street. It still causes confusion since people, despite the signage, don't know when to yield or when not to. Its tight circle must be driven around very slowly due to its circumference. It may shave off a second or two over the stop sign, and after all, we don't live indefinite lives. There's an attractively landscaped island in the middle, keeping the circular lane narrow. Sometimes design can exceed usefulness (IMO).

I'l never forget the mangle of badly damaged cars I saw on the big circle on PCH, where it seemed a driver going down one of the connecting streets hadn't slowed down or yielded for the circle (maybe drunk). Police reports, injury, insurance involvement, monies paid, rising premiums, frustration, sadness. Seems worth the short time saved.

Seems like you don't realize that accidents also happen at 4-way intersections. Most accidents happen at intersections, in fact (regardless of type).

If anything, a simple roundabout minimizes the chance of a head-on collision in an intersection.