Ronald Speirs

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

In the mini series they seem to make it pretty plain that Speirs shot the German P.O.W.'s. shortly after the jump into Normandy. Later on when Lipton asks him about he doesn't directly deny it.
So I looked it up on Wiki and found that the other incident that gets mentioned, the one where a soldier heard a rumor Speirs shot one of his sergeants for being drunk and disobeying an order WAS true.

from wiki:

Richard Winters, in his own book titled Beyond Band of Brothers: The Memoirs of Major Richard Winters, detailed exactly what did happen when Speirs shot a sergeant in one of his squads for being drunk on duty and refusing to take orders in combat. Winters notes that by shooting the sergeant, Speirs saved the lives of many other men. Winters also repeatedly calls Speirs "a born killer" and states that despite making occasional flawed decisions off the battlefield, Speirs was a superb combat commander, which Winters respected immensely. Winters also points out that Speirs did report this incident to his commanding officer and the name of the officer. However, that officer was killed in action the next day, and the incident was never pursued at any level. Winters suggests that officers higher in the chain of command were so desperate for competent field officers that they could not afford losing one of Speirs' caliber. The soldiers serving under Speirs respected him immensely, but also feared him. This incident eventually faded away officially but became legend among the troops.



I guess I can agree that shooting a drunk and treasonious officer to save lives is justified, but shooting un-armed p.o.w.'s doesn't seem right.
 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
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Dude, it's war. It's so fucking easy to judge them from the warmth of the armchair, but hey, when these people shoot the living shit out of you and your squad, it's hard to suppress the animal instinct to destroy them all, even unarmed and taken as prisoners.
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
17
81
Dealing mercy during war will only come back to haunt you. Did you not watch Saving Private Ryan where tom hanks released that nazi dude who came back to kill a number of tom hanks' men? Man fuck the enemy, I don't take PoWs. If you ain't on my side, you're kill on sight.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Originally posted by: Baked
Dealing mercy during war will only come back to haunt you. Did you not watch Saving Private Ryan where tom hanks released that nazi dude who came back to kill a number of tom hanks' men? Man fuck the enemy, I don't take PoWs. If you ain't on my side, you're kill on sight.

:laugh:

Somehow, just somehow, I knew keyboard warriors would crawl out from under their rocks in this thread. And so it begins :laugh:
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Baked
Dealing mercy during war will only come back to haunt you. Did you not watch Saving Private Ryan where tom hanks released that nazi dude who came back to kill a number of tom hanks' men? Man fuck the enemy, I don't take PoWs. If you ain't on my side, you're kill on sight.

:laugh:

Somehow, just somehow, I knew keyboard warriors would crawl out from under their rocks in this thread. And so it begins :laugh:

We all have played CoD and MoH more than enough to know the ins and outs of war. We're experts.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,171
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Originally posted by: Baked
Dealing mercy during war will only come back to haunt you. Did you not watch Saving Private Ryan where tom hanks released that nazi dude who came back to kill a number of tom hanks' men? Man fuck the enemy, I don't take PoWs. If you ain't on my side, you're kill on sight.

The rules of war are much like morality.

They exist for PURELY selfish reasons.

You do not spare enemy soldiers who surrender because you are a humanitarian or have any feeling of mercy for them. You spare them with the agreement that if you are forced to surrender, YOU will be spared.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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Did he really run out in the open through Bastogne while combat was occuring?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,171
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Originally posted by: her209
Did he really run out in the open through Bastogne while combat was occuring?

That's actually a true story. But it wasn't Bastogne (wasn't Bastogne in the movie, either). It was after Bastogne.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: techs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

In the mini series they seem to make it pretty plain that Speirs shot the German P.O.W.'s. shortly after the jump into Normandy. Later on when Lipton asks him about he doesn't directly deny it.

Doesn't he say something to the effect of having men believe he did it made a difference whether he did it or not? The series doesn't make it clear that he did it; it implies that he could have done it. If they wanted to make it clear that he did it, they would have shown him doing it.
 

Oakenfold

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: her209
Did he really run out in the open through Bastogne while combat was occuring?

That's actually a true story. But it wasn't Bastogne (wasn't Bastogne in the movie, either). It was after Bastogne.

I think it was Foy (SP?), episode V the Breaking Point.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: techs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

In the mini series they seem to make it pretty plain that Speirs shot the German P.O.W.'s. shortly after the jump into Normandy.

I disagree. It is not made plain that he actually did it; In fact, they takes pains to keep the viewer guessing, e.g.his conversation with Lipton.
The look on the soldiers face who saw it as you heard the machine gun made it plain in my eyes, at least.


 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
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Originally posted by: Oakenfold
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: her209
Did he really run out in the open through Bastogne while combat was occuring?

That's actually a true story. But it wasn't Bastogne (wasn't Bastogne in the movie, either). It was after Bastogne.

I think it was Foy (SP?), episode V the Breaking Point.

It was indeed Foy. Spiers was definitely a badass.
 

drum

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
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You can't possibly say "oh I would have done this!" Until you are in that situation, there is no way you can know how you would react.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,664
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Originally posted by: techs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

I guess I can agree that shooting a drunk and treasonious officer to save lives is justified, but shooting un-armed p.o.w.'s doesn't seem right.

You may want to rewatch the mini series. I forget which segment it was in, but there was a flash back to the POW incident which clearly shows Spiers did not shot the prisoners. It was some other guy. Bascially, as he walked up to the prisoners the other guy layed into them with his Thompson.

-KeithP

 

chuckywang

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
20,133
1
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Originally posted by: Baked
Dealing mercy during war will only come back to haunt you. Did you not watch Saving Private Ryan where tom hanks released that nazi dude who came back to kill a number of tom hanks' men? Man fuck the enemy, I don't take PoWs. If you ain't on my side, you're kill on sight.

Let me guess, 5 min. later after posting this you're either on WoW or masturbating furiously.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
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Originally posted by: KeithP
Originally posted by: techs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Speirs

I guess I can agree that shooting a drunk and treasonious officer to save lives is justified, but shooting un-armed p.o.w.'s doesn't seem right.

You may want to rewatch the mini series. I forget which segment it was in, but there was a flash back to the POW incident which clearly shows Spiers did not shot the prisoners. It was some other guy. Bascially, as he walked up to the prisoners the other guy layed into them with his Thompson.

-KeithP

Those were from scenes dramatizing the stories that the soldiers heard. One soldier said he heard he shot the prisoners and so they show a scene of Spiers shooting them. Another soldier contradicts him saying he didn't do it and that's when they show the scene of Spiers watching another soldier do the shooting. The whole point is that the movies keep it ambiguous and Spiers admits to Lipton that he doesn't correct any of the assumptions because he feels that it is useful to him to have the soldiers think that he may have done it. I have read the Band of Brothers books and I do not recall them making any real point about Spiers shooting any prisoners. I think that the series may have hit upon the rumor from an interview and inflated it for the script. I haven't read any of the books written by the soldiers though. I remember that in addition to Winters, Buck Compton also wrote a book.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
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According to Richard Winters, he did do it, even if it didnt happen at the time and place shown in the series. It was portrayed that way because the scriptwriters didn't really know. Later, the true story emerged. From page 160 in "Biggest Brother" by Larry Alexander, a biography on Richard Winters: "He [Winters] knew the tough officer [Speirs] had executed six German POWs on D-Day, and on D-plus 2 he had shot one of his own sergeants through the forehead for twice refusing a direct order under fire." Speirs' actions can be seen in a wider context, where it was sanctioned that prisoners weren't to be taken.

From "Parachute Infantry" by David Kenyon Webster (on D-Day in HQ Company, 2d Battalion, 506 PIR, 101st Airborne), page 21: "Above all, kill 'em! We can't be dragging a lot of prisoners around with us at night." (Said by a captain during a briefing prior to the mission.)

From "Band of Brothers" by Stephen Ambrose, page 73: "[General] Taylor told Malarkey's platoon to fight with knives until daylight, "and don't take any prisoners."
 

drum

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
6,810
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81
I'm sure its been posted on this board somewhere, but Shifty Powers died last week!

Edit: Corrected on date of death by Gibsons which was last Wednesday :(
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: drum
I'm sure its been posted on this board somewhere, but Shifty Powers died last night!

:(
rose.gif