Ron Santo Elected to the Hall

Perknose

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TallBill

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To all the naysayers complaining that he only got in because he passed away a year ago, you need to do some research about how the veteran's committee (VC) works and has worked.

It changed rules twice (2009 and 2010) because over a span of the past 6 years NOBODY had bee elected through the use of the VC. The last time Santo was up for a VC vote (2009), he was in a pool of all players from 1943 to present and a 75 percent vote needed to be reached from a pool of 64 voters that only voted every other year and not a single player had been voted in for 6 years.

This time, he was in a pool of golden era players (I believe 1943-1973), coaches, umpires, and executives and was voted in from a pool of only 16 voters.
 

dmcowen674

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Oct 13, 1999
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Ron Santo Elected to the Hall
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/stor...bs-great-ron-santo-elected-baseball-hall-fame

Others can argue 'till the cows come home as to whether his numbers merited this, but I'm happy that it happened.

Growing up, the Cubs of that era were perennially as bad as the Phillies were, but always had Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, and Ron Santo, three of the finer gentlemen ever to play the game. :thumbsup:

5 time Golden Glove winner

A real shame it took 32 years and a year after he died to right the wrong.
 

zinfamous

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201687_Obit_Santo_Baseball.jpg
 

TallBill

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5 time Golden Glove winner

A real shame it took 32 years and a year after he died to right the wrong.

Lol, 5 gold gloves does not qualify you for the HoF. Not even close. Its a combination of everything that you've done. Sure, its a part of the big picture. Hell, Jim Kaat was in the same ballot and lost and he won 14 gold gloves.
 

Miramonti

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This is what playing in a big city does. He was a good player...but one of the greats? nah.
 

zinfamous

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This is what playing in a big city does. He was a good player...but one of the greats? nah.

If you look at the majority of inductees that played prior to 1940, Santo might as well be Lou Gehrig compared to those scrubs.
 

Miramonti

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If you look at the majority of inductees that played prior to 1940, Santo might as well be Lou Gehrig compared to those scrubs.

I think he should be compared to his contemporaries who played along side him. No question the HOF criteria has been a bit dynamic over the years.
 

Perknose

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This is what playing in a big city does. He was a good player...but one of the greats? nah.

Mr. James, the creator of sabermetrics and a man who likely knows a bit more about baseball than you or I ever will, begs to disagree:

Bill James, a notable statistical guru who has ranked Santo among the 100 greatest players of all time (sixth among third basemen), believed his election to the Hall of Fame was long overdue.
 

Perknose

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I think he should be compared to his contemporaries who played along side him.

Ok, sure. Never mind that Bill James ranks him the sixth best third baseman of all time and amongst the 100 best major leaguers at any position ever, let's do just that!

Five gold gloves and:

Pair his defensive accomplishments and reputation with offensive statistics that are better than they appear because of the pitching-dominated era in which he played and you've got a Hall of Famer.

See how that works? ;)
 

Miramonti

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I'm not going to argue I know more than Bill James (or that I know who he is), or that I know more than members of the Old Cricky Golden Era Committee that elected him, but my response was based on a thorough statistical analysis...of my opinion. :p

I really haven't seen him play..atleast not at an age where I knew the difference between great and good (for players not on the Big Red Machine teams, that is...) What others who played with/against him say about his career should be respected too imo, and I know many have thought very positively towards his induction.
 

Perknose

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I'm not going to argue I know more than Bill James (or that I know who he is) . . .

From his Wiki:

George William “Bill” James (born October 5, 1949, in Holton, Kansas) is a baseball writer, historian, and statistician whose work has been widely influential. Since 1977, James has written more than two dozen books devoted to baseball history and statistics. His approach, which he termed sabermetrics in reference to the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR),[1] scientifically analyzes and studies baseball, often through the use of statistical data, in an attempt to determine why teams win and lose. His Baseball Abstract books in the 1980s are the modern predecessor to websites using sabermetrics such as Baseball Prospectus and Baseball Primer (now Baseball Think Factory).[2]


In 2006, Time named him in the Time 100 as one of the most influential people in the world.[3] He is currently a Senior Advisor on Baseball Operations for the Boston Red Sox.
Among the statistical innovations attributable to James are:

  • Runs Created. A statistic intended to quantify a player's contribution to runs scored, as well as a team's expected number of runs scored. Runs created is calculated from other offensive statistics. James's first version of it was: Runs Created = (Total Bases * (Hits + Walks))/(Plate Appearances). Applied to an entire team or league, the statistic correlates closely to that team's or league's actual runs scored. Since James first created the statistic, sabermetricians have refined it to make it more accurate, and it is now used in many different variations.
  • Range factor. A statistic that quantifies the defensive contribution of a player, calculated in its simplest form as RF = (Assists + Put Outs)/(Games Played). The statistic is premised on the notion that the total number of outs that a player participates in is more relevant in evaluating his defensive play than the percentage of cleanly handled chances as calculated by the conventional statistic Fielding Percentage.
  • Defensive Efficiency Rating. A statistic that shows the percentage of balls in play a defense turns into an out. It is used to help determine a team's defensive ability. Calculated by: 1 - ((Opp. Hits + Reached on Error - Opp. Home runs) / (Plate appearances - Walks - Strikeouts - HitByPitch - Opp. Home runs)).
  • Win Shares. A unifying statistic intended to allow the comparison of players at different positions, as well as players of different eras. Win Shares incorporates a variety of pitching, hitting and fielding statistics. One drawback of Win Shares is the difficulty of computing it.[8]
  • Pythagorean Winning Percentage. A statistic explaining the relationship of wins and losses to runs scored and runs allowed. In its simplest form: Pythagorean Winning Percentage equals Runs squared divided by the square of Runs plus the square of Runs Allowed. The statistic correlates closely to a team's actual winning percentage.
  • Game Score is a metric to determine the strength of a pitcher in any particular baseball game.
  • Major League Equivalency. A metric that uses minor league statistics to predict how a player is likely to perform at the major league level.
  • The Brock2 System. A system for projecting a player's performance over the remainder of his career based on past performance and the aging process.
  • Similarity scores. Scoring a player's statistical similarity to other players, providing a frame of reference for players of the distant past. Examples: Lou Gehrig comparable to Don Mattingly; Joe Jackson to Tony Oliva.
  • Secondary average. A statistic that attempts to measure a player's contribution to an offense in ways not reflected in batting average. The formula is (Extra bases on hits+Walks+Stolen Bases)/At bats. Secondary averages tend to be similar to batting averages, but can vary widely, from less than .100 to more than .500 in extreme cases. Extra bases on hits is calculated with the formula (Doubles)+(Triplesx2)+(Homerunsx3) or more easily, (Total Bases)-(Hits).
  • Power/Speed Number. A statistic that attempts to consolidate the various "clubs" of players with impressive numbers of both home runs and stolen bases (e.g., the "30/30" club (Bobby Bonds was well known for being a member), the "40/40" club (José Canseco was the first to perform this feat), and even the "25/65" club (Joe Morgan in the '70s)). The formula: (2x(Home Runs)x(Stolen Bases))/(Home Runs + Stolen Bases).
  • Approximate Value. A system of cutoffs designed to estimate the value a player contributed to various category groups (including his team) to study broad questions such as "how do players age over time".
Although James may be best known as an inventor of statistical tools, he has often written on the limitations of statistics and urged humility concerning their place amidst other kinds of information about baseball.[citation needed] To James, context is paramount: he was among the first to emphasize the importance of adjusting traditional statistics for park factors and to stress the role of luck in a pitcher's win-loss record.[citation needed] Many of his statistical innovations are arguably less important than the underlying ideas. When he introduced the notion of secondary average, it was as a vehicle for the then-counterintuitive concept that batting average represents only a fraction of a player's offensive contribution. (The runs-created statistic plays a similar role vis-à-vis the traditional RBI.) Some of his contributions to the language of baseball, like the idea of the "defensive spectrum", border on being entirely non-statistical.
 

angminas

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Lol, 5 gold gloves does not qualify you for the HoF. Not even close. Its a combination of everything that you've done. Sure, its a part of the big picture. Hell, Jim Kaat was in the same ballot and lost and he won 14 gold gloves.

Lol, he didn't say 5 gold gloves qualifies you for the HoF. Not even close. It was part of the big picture of what he said.