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Ron Paul wants to abolish the Income Tax?

RandomFool

Diamond Member
I read somewhere that Ron Paul wants to abolish the income tax. Now I'm all for not having the government not take my money but how could the US possibly function without all that money especially considering the deficit we currently have? It just seems silly.
 
A national sales tax (VAT) where as a persons consumption rather than income determines what they pay, its by far the fairest tax system.
 
We didn't have an Income Tax until 1913, except for a few years during and after the Civil War. There are also plenty of other taxes that are used to pay for specific services. Like gas taxes that pay for roads.
 
Paul's ultimate goal is to have a drastically reduced federal government. Eliminating the income tax is only part of that. When government returns to the basics (roads, courts, defense), Americans won't need to be enslaved through April/May every year just to pay their tax bill. Government won't have much to spend your money on, so it won't be taking it from you.

Here is a nice little speech Paul gave on the floor of Congress in 2003:


Taxes, Spending, and Debt Are the Real Issues

by Ron Paul

In Washington we hear a lot of talk about tax cuts, but the rhetoric does not always match the reality. For most Americans, taxes remain too complex and too high. After the tumult of the upcoming midterm election, it is imperative that Congress gets back to basics and addresses our terrible tax system.

Lower taxes benefit all Americans by increasing economic growth and encouraging wealth creation. I?m in favor of cutting everybody?s taxes ? rich, poor, and otherwise. Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother?s payroll taxes by forty dollars a month, or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains and hire more employees, the net effect is beneficial. Both either spend, save, or invest the extra dollars, which helps all of us more than if those dollars were sent to the black hole known as the federal Treasury.

Many conservatives have touted the Fair Tax proposal as an issue in the upcoming election. A pure consumption tax like the Fair Tax would be better than the current system only if we truly did away with the income tax by repealing the 16th amendment. Otherwise, we could end up with both the income tax and a national sales tax. A consumption tax also provides more transparency and less complexity. But the real issue is total spending by government, not tax reform. In other words, why change the tax structure if spending stays the same? Once we accept that the federal government needs $2.7 trillion from us ? and more each year ? the only question left is from whom it will be collected. Until the federal government is held to its proper constitutionally limited functions, tax reform will remain a mirage.

I apply a very simple test to any proposal to overhaul the tax code: Does it reduce or eliminate an existing tax? If not, then it amounts to nothing more than a political shell game that pits taxpayers against each other in a lobbying scramble to make sure the other guy pays. True tax reform is as simple as cutting or eliminating taxes. No studies, panels, committees, or hearings are needed. When reform proposals seem complicated, they almost certainly don?t cut taxes. Congress should simply focus on cutting existing taxes and reducing spending, instead of complicated overhauls of the system.

The question to ask yourself is this: What would I do with the money withheld from my paycheck each month? The answer is simple: you would spend, save, or invest the money, all of which do more for the economy and society than sending it to Washington. Thanks to the deception of income tax withholding, however, some people actually look forward to tax time and a much-anticipated refund. Imagine how quickly Americans would demand lower taxes and spending if they had to write the federal government a check each month!

Tax relief is important, but members of Congress need to back up tax cuts with spending cuts ? and they need to vote NO on every wasteful appropriations bill until we start over with the federal budget. True fiscal conservatism combines both low taxes and low spending.

Cutting spending would not be hard if Congress simply showed the political will to tackle the problem. I?m not talking about cutting the rate at which government spending grows, but cutting the actual amount of money spent by the federal government in a single year.

If federal spending grows at 5% rather than 7% one year, that?s hardly a great achievement on the part of Congress. The current federal budget of around $2.7 trillion could be cut to $2.5 trillion quite easily. The vast majority of Americans would not even notice. But we must begin chipping away at the federal budget if we hope to address the underlying problem of government debt.

 
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
We didn't have an Income Tax until 1913, except for a few years during and after the Civil War. There are also plenty of other taxes that are used to pay for specific services. Like gas taxes that pay for roads.

I don't think it would be a good idea to return to the living standard of 1913. The modern global economy which puts the US on top of the heap is a very different beast.



 
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
We didn't have an Income Tax until 1913, except for a few years during and after the Civil War. There are also plenty of other taxes that are used to pay for specific services. Like gas taxes that pay for roads.

I don't think it would be a good idea to return to the living standard of 1913. The modern global economy which puts the US on top of the heap is a very different beast.

How about we get taxed by our state, and the state gives what they want to the Feds? It accomplishes the goals of reducing federal power without lowering the ?living standard? as you put it.
 
Interesting. The article I read was pretty brief and simply stated that was one of his goals. When I read it I thought "wtf?" but after reading that speech it makes a more sense. It certainly is and interesting idea, I doubt it would be possible to make it happen, I can't see the government giving up any of it's money.
 
But the point is, he is advocating a Libertarian perspective to tax and spend. Which is to shrink the federal government until it is small enough to drown in a bathtub. Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about). He's saying we shouldn't meddle in every other country's affairs, or give away money, or many other things the fed is now doing.

The problem with eliminating an Income Tax is that funds that are needed will have to come from somewhere else, like a V.A.T., which is same sh*t, different day.
 
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
But the point is, he is advocating a Libertarian perspective to tax and spend. Which is to shrink the federal government until it is small enough to drown in a bathtub. Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about). He's saying we shouldn't meddle in every other country's affairs, or give away money, or many other things the fed is now doing.

The problem with eliminating an Income Tax is that funds that are needed will have to come from somewhere else, like a V.A.T., which is same sh*t, different day.

The point would be for the money to change hands to a more local level, so that Washington DC does not own this country and instead allow this country to own Washington DC.
 
States are much more efficient with thier spending. A lot of the govt functions handled by the fed should have never been taken out of state control. Even if all the current govt funtions were kept the same, just pushed onto the states, the gains in efficiency would be huge, and the states would be able to lower taxes.
 
Originally posted by: RandomFool
I read somewhere that Ron Paul wants to abolish the income tax. Now I'm all for not having the government not take my money but how could the US possibly function without all that money especially considering the deficit we currently have? It just seems silly.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the total revenue of the federal government during its most recently completed fiscal year (FY 2006) was $2.406 trillion. Individual income taxes accounted for $1.043 trillion of the government's total take. Besides individual income taxes, the government's revenue also comes from corporate income taxes, social insurance taxes, excise taxes, estate and gift taxes, customs duties, and miscellaneous receipts.

Individual income taxes could painlessly be eliminated if federal spending was simply reduced to about the level it was at the beginning of the previous administration. Unfortunately, however, no recent tax reform proposal even addresses the issue of giving the federal government less money to spend.

At the beginning of this article I said that the total revenue of the federal government during its most recently completely fiscal year was $2.406 trillion and that individual income taxes collected during this period were $1.043 trillion. This means that if you subtract the income taxes collected from total revenue you end up with $1.363 trillion for the federal government to spend. That is just a little less than the government spent during the fiscal year in which Clinton began his first term.

Are income taxes evil? Yes. Should they be eliminated? Yes. Would it be a terrible thing if the federal government still spent over $1 trillion? Yes. But it is a start. It is real tax reform. With no income tax, there will be no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no EITC welfare program, and no refundable child credit welfare program ? all without a NRST.

http://www.mises.org/story/2552
 
Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wow, this Ron Paul guy is paying a lot of people to post.

Yah, with truth. 🙂

About Ron

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas)
======================================
A Republican Politician from Texas.

That's all we need to know about Ron Paul.

This Country has already suffered the wrath from a Republican from Texas and cannot possibility survive another one.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wow, this Ron Paul guy is paying a lot of people to post.

Yah, with truth. 🙂

About Ron

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas)
======================================
A Republican Politician from Texas.

That's all we need to know about Ron Paul.

This Country has already suffered the wrath from a Republican from Texas and cannot possibility survive another one.

Democrats, Republicans are nothing but labels, in fact they are more often than not, one and the same.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674This Country has already suffered the wrath from a Republican from Texas and cannot possibility survive another one.

I wouldn't worry about where he's from so much as what he is going to do.

His ideal world is complete deregulation, which would allow banks, cable and phone companies to charge whatever fees they want, whereas they are now restricted as to what they can gouge from you. He is against controlling inflation as fiscal policy. There are far too many reasons he should not become president, but I am glad that his otherwise sound logic against the war is being spoken. I was tired of being a thought criminal.
 
Originally posted by: fs123
A national sales tax (VAT) where as a persons consumption rather than income determines what they pay, its by far the fairest tax system.

A national sales tax isn't the same as a VAT.
 
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about).

Are you @#$@ing kidding me?
 
Originally posted by: AVP
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about).

Are you @#$@ing kidding me?

Well it wasn't about slavery, Lincoln could care less about slaves.
 
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674This Country has already suffered the wrath from a Republican from Texas and cannot possibility survive another one.

I wouldn't worry about where he's from so much as what he is going to do.

His ideal world is complete deregulation, which would allow banks, cable and phone companies to charge whatever fees they want, whereas they are now restricted as to what they can gouge from you. He is against controlling inflation as fiscal policy. There are far too many reasons he should not become president, but I am glad that his otherwise sound logic against the war is being spoken. I was tired of being a thought criminal.

I agree to a point but Texas has shown to home of the most Corporate Corruption this Country has to offer.
 
Originally posted by: AVP
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about).

Are you @#$@ing kidding me?
States rights.

The South did not want the liberla north dictating to them what they could/could not do.

Also, the New England states has also considered succeeding from the union due to the same concept.

 
I don't see whats wrong with a VAT tax (and maybe a negative income tax for the poor/middle class to offset the regressive nature of the VAT tax... my idea, not ron paul's btw). At the very least, it would be a helluva lot cheaper to administer rather than the monster tax code we have now.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: AVP
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about).

Are you @#$@ing kidding me?
States rights.

The South did not want the liberla north dictating to them what they could/could not do.

Also, the New England states has also considered succeeding from the union due to the same concept.


The south was largely democratic back in those days...
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: AVP
Originally posted by: ThunderDawg
Republicans at one time argued that states should have more power and the fed should have less (which is what the Civil War was really about).

Are you @#$@ing kidding me?
States rights.

The South did not want the liberal north dictating to them what they could/could not do.

Also, the New England states has also considered succeeding from the union due to the same concept.


The south was largely democratic back in those days...
Remember that the Republican and Democrat parties essentially swithc platforms from the original names/ideals.

Democrat != Liberal

 
Taxing consumption is horribly regressive. The less money you make, the greater percent you spend on consumption.

The only "fair" tax is taxing all income at a flat rate.

I'd love to see our the income tax system completely overhauled. It amazes me that people seem to worry more about gay marriages and abortion rights during election time moreso than fixing a system so convoluted that there is an entire industry based just on figuring out what exactly people owe.
 
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