Ron Paul: Patriotism

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Yes, you people don't like the word because it's been "stolen" by conservatives and used against you. It's just one of those words. Simply mentioning patriotism or patriot around liberals brings frowns and serious lectures about blind obedience. Tell me something I don't know.

In my experience, that's only true of the far-far-left partisan hacks. I know there are a good number of them on this board, but they don't represent even the typical liberal.

And neither do you guys represent the typical conservative. In fact, this discussion doesn't really reflect the typical discussion. A combination of anonymity and the general asshole gene that everyone has gives us this discussion where I accuse cwjerome of being a blind tool, and he accuses me of being unpatriotic. I doubt either of us really hold those views, or really would if we thought about it very long.

I think that's the biggest point here, it's a pretty loaded word, bringing it up in discussions tens to elicit pretty strong reactions on both sides.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I think that's the biggest point here, it's a pretty loaded word, bringing it up in discussions tens to elicit pretty strong reactions on both sides.

I agree. Which is why I never question anyone's patriotism. It's every bit as stupid as throwing the "traitor" label around.

And I think it is safe to say that no one on this board represents a "typical" point of view, liberal or conservative, vis-a-vi the average American.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Yes, you people don't like the word because it's been "stolen" by conservatives and used against you. It's just one of those words. Simply mentioning patriotism or patriot around liberals brings frowns and serious lectures about blind obedience. Tell me something I don't know.

In my experience, that's only true of the far-far-left partisan hacks. I know there are a good number of them on this board, but they don't represent even the typical liberal.

And neither do you guys represent the typical conservative. In fact, this discussion doesn't really reflect the typical discussion. A combination of anonymity and the general asshole gene that everyone has gives us this discussion where I accuse cwjerome of being a blind tool, and he accuses me of being unpatriotic. I doubt either of us really hold those views, or really would if we thought about it very long.

I think that's the biggest point here, it's a pretty loaded word, bringing it up in discussions tens to elicit pretty strong reactions on both sides.

I never said you're unpatriotic... see, that's the kind of defensiveness I talked about though.

You came into this thread stating you have a problem with the word, or how it's currently used a lot today (in your mind). But that really has nothing to do with what I said... so I'm still wondering why you quoted me to begin with.

All I said is it's a value-neutral term which must be judged in context -and- judging Ron Paul in context, I respect his patriotism. Then you go off on this standard "conservatives-monopolize-and-twist-patriotism" thing.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Yes, you people don't like the word because it's been "stolen" by conservatives and used against you. It's just one of those words. Simply mentioning patriotism or patriot around liberals brings frowns and serious lectures about blind obedience. Tell me something I don't know.

In my experience, that's only true of the far-far-left partisan hacks. I know there are a good number of them on this board, but they don't represent even the typical liberal.

And neither do you guys represent the typical conservative. In fact, this discussion doesn't really reflect the typical discussion. A combination of anonymity and the general asshole gene that everyone has gives us this discussion where I accuse cwjerome of being a blind tool, and he accuses me of being unpatriotic. I doubt either of us really hold those views, or really would if we thought about it very long.

I think that's the biggest point here, it's a pretty loaded word, bringing it up in discussions tens to elicit pretty strong reactions on both sides.

I never said you're unpatriotic... see, that's the kind of defensiveness I talked about though.

You said "we" (liberals) have a lowbrow view of patriotism, and then expressed surprise that we would object to having our patriotism challenged. In other words, you were arguing that our alleged views make challenging our patriotism an obvious choice. Maybe you didn't use the word "unpatriotic", but that was clearly what you meant. And even if you didn't, you'd hardly be the first conservative to suggest that liberals are unpatriotic.

You came into this thread stating you have a problem with the word, or how it's currently used a lot today (in your mind). But that really has nothing to do with what I said... so I'm still wondering why you quoted me to begin with.

All I said is it's a value-neutral term which must be judged in context -and- judging Ron Paul in context, I respect his patriotism. Then you go off on this standard "conservatives-monopolize-and-twist-patriotism" thing.

I quoted you because your definition of patriotism in this context (which I agree with, by the way) is not matched by how many people define patriotism. I like what you said, and I think we'd be better off if more people viewed patriotism that way. But I don't think they do, and I thought that was relevant to the discussion...so I said so.

As far as my standard rant, I actually didn't say anything along those lines until you responded to my post. I DID say that some Republicans had used the idea of patriotism as a way to bludgeon Democrats for political purposes. But not only is that true, I was actually agreeing with what you said by offering an example of the wrong interpretation of patriotism. Your response, however, made it clear that you had a particular gripe in your mind as much as I did...that liberals are defensive about patriotism.

So let's start over, shall we? I agree with what you said, and I respect Ron Paul's ideas about patriotism as well...and I think we'd be better off if more people thought of it that way. Better? 😉

 

[colonel]

Patriotism is something the republican far-far-far-far-far right partisan hacks abuse after 9/11, to hell with them, nobody listen them anymore after Katrina, Iraq, and political scandals . The American people is smart.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: colonel
The American people is smart.

:laugh:

 

[Lemon law]

Coming late to this thread, I think the link the OP presents is a fairly well articulated overview of libertarian positions. Almost predictably for P&N, the OP has fallen well short on his request for no trolling because the topic itself bears on certain fault line splits between liberals and conservatives. But fair is fair, where Ron Paul owns property and chooses to enjoy his vacations have nothing to do about nothing, and the libertarian message of individual liberty has a certain resonance with people of all political stripes.

If I as unitary dictator of my family were the last family on earth, we might be talking some sort of simplicity perhaps compromised by a strong minded wife who wields a mean rolling pin, and various bratty children who don't agree with me 100%. But the fact is, any large nation has millions of families who don't always agree with mine, and may need some protection from other families in the given nation who decide that the commandment to follow is thou shalt steal from others.

And in that situation of multiple people, we invent this artificial entity called government to promote the other invented concept of the common good. Let stew for thousand of years with various social experiments on the infinite benefits and curses an expensive artificial concept like government can bring or take away, and we are perhaps ready to view the libertarian message. Where is that balance between a government that promotes the common good versus a government that becomes oppressive. And also begs the question, how much power MUST we give government to prevent entities within and without from practicing the policy of thou shalt steal.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

Chill out.

Do you read any of the other threads in this forum? Smartass remarks are common.

No need to chill, I'm not angry.

Yes there are many smart asses, I guess I expected better from someone of compuwiz1's stature, I was sadly mistaken.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Yes there are many smart asses, I guess I expected better from someone of compuwiz1's stature, I was sadly mistaken.

We expected better from you too. All we got was more Paul propaganda :laugh:

You, of all people, should know that Paul threads will generate crap. You're lucky they haven't banned Paul threads entirely. A lot of sites have. (And for good reason.)

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Yes there are many smart asses, I guess I expected better from someone of compuwiz1's stature, I was sadly mistaken.

We expected better from you too. All we got was more Paul propaganda :laugh:

Sorry, I'm not here for you. Moderators are supposed to uphold the rules not dive into them as well. The biggest part being the "pre-meditated" act of trolling expressly asked not to happen here before you even clicked to read what this thread was about. Ron Paul's explanation of what "patriotism" has become is propaganda? How so? I haven't seen you challenge any of his speech yet.

You, of all people, should know that Paul threads will generate crap. You're lucky they haven't banned Paul threads entirely. A lot of sites have. (And for good reason.)

Is the crap generated the fault of the thread starter or the people who bring the crap to it? I brought no crap, only facts and suggestions, yet somehow, this is construed as my fault for bringing up a topic (patriotism) that is being discussed? The problem lies with the "crappers" who can't stand Ron Paul. When they see his name they cringe and a knee jerk reflex sarcasm spews into a thread. Instead of debating the issue of patriotism they become 7yr old school children on the playground.

The only valid reason I could see Anandtech would ban Ron Paul threads is if they became so rampant that there were too many. This isn't the case here. There were no Ron Paul threads on the first page at the time of it's posting. And rightfully so, moderators are supremely adept (which I have found out) at closing threads that there were an abundance of.

As for you personally Pabster, you sometimes seem to have good understanding and yet others, you make me shake my head.

 

[dahunan]

How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: dahunan
How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

And the Oscar goes to.... DAHUNAN!! who gets the nod for best dramatic performance!!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: dahunan
How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

And the Oscar goes to.... DAHUNAN!! who gets the nod for best dramatic performance!!

😀 .. Dude.. none of them have a soul or care for any of you.. only thing they care about are votes and cash and power

Do you think otherwise?

1% might be truly benevolent souls and committed to civil service.. ONE PERCENT... the rest are scammers

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: dahunan
How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

And the Oscar goes to.... DAHUNAN!! who gets the nod for best dramatic performance!!

😀 .. Dude.. none of them have a soul or care for any of you.. only thing they care about are votes and cash and power

Do you think otherwise?

1% might be truly benevolent souls and committed to civil service.. ONE PERCENT... the rest are scammers

:thumbsup:

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dahunan
How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

Oh come on, don't be so pessimistic. America is still the strongest nation on earth and it's democrat and republican presidents that led the nation to that position. It's just that the last 7 years America went no where but downhill in terms of national competitiveness and personal liberty. There are still smart and good people out there who can lead a comeback, you just have to be smart about who to elect.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Yes there are many smart asses, I guess I expected better from someone of compuwiz1's stature, I was sadly mistaken.

We expected better from you too. All we got was more Paul propaganda :laugh:

Sorry, I'm not here for you. Moderators are supposed to uphold the rules not dive into them as well. The biggest part being the "pre-meditated" act of trolling expressly asked not to happen here before you even clicked to read what this thread was about. Ron Paul's explanation of what "patriotism" has become is propaganda? How so? I haven't seen you challenge any of his speech yet.

You, of all people, should know that Paul threads will generate crap. You're lucky they haven't banned Paul threads entirely. A lot of sites have. (And for good reason.)

Is the crap generated the fault of the thread starter or the people who bring the crap to it? I brought no crap, only facts and suggestions, yet somehow, this is construed as my fault for bringing up a topic (patriotism) that is being discussed? The problem lies with the "crappers" who can't stand Ron Paul. When they see his name they cringe and a knee jerk reflex sarcasm spews into a thread. Instead of debating the issue of patriotism they become 7yr old school children on the playground.

The only valid reason I could see Anandtech would ban Ron Paul threads is if they became so rampant that there were too many. This isn't the case here. There were no Ron Paul threads on the first page at the time of it's posting. And rightfully so, moderators are supremely adept (which I have found out) at closing threads that there were an abundance of.

As for you personally Pabster, you sometimes seem to have good understanding and yet others, you make me shake my head.

I was under the impression ther was to be one active Ron whats his name thread at al time!

You people are trying to spam...oops cram Ron whats his name down our throats!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

Don't like? Don't click.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

Don't like? Don't click.

That`s not the point is it...... 🙂

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

Don't like? Don't click.

That`s not the point is it...... 🙂

Don't like? Don't click.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

Don't like? Don't click.

That`s not the point is it...... 🙂

Don't like? Don't click.

Don't like? Don't read.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Ron Paul purportedly has valuable vacation property in Idaho. It's a very serene place, where he, as well as some of his elite followers gather for a few laughs and some refreshments, although the followers prefer his Kool-Aid. There is always something grilling, making this destination a notch above the rest.

Where ya ask? Well ask no further. :laugh:

Great job Moderator. Asked before entering the thread to NOT troll post yet you do anyways. Even when its against forum rules. Oh wait, I guess they don't apply to you. NVM....

This entire thread is a troll...the Op started it.......
Just because an OP asks for no trilling who does the Op think he is????

It`s a no brainer start a Ron whats his name thread.... expect to get trolled...especially one where the OP is trolling just by starting the thread....hmmmm

Don't like? Don't click.

That`s not the point is it...... 🙂

Don't like? Don't click.

Don't like? Don't read.

Exactly, maybe you will follow your own advice 🙂

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon



Exactly, maybe you will follow your own advice 🙂

I'm not the one spamming "Don't like, Don't click" to every criticism of the Ron Paul spam bots. I think its perfectly fine to criticize someone for spamming. I was just giving you the same advice that you give everyone else.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: dahunan
How the hell can anyone vote for or even give a crap about any Democrat or Republican is a travesty.. they are all the worst the human race has to offer.

Well given there is diversity in the democratic party, the Republican party, and diversity among libertarians, maybe the human race should seek leadership from cows and monkeys because we humans seem incapable of the task. Angels would be much better, but they seem to be temporarily unavailable.

Demonstrating something is less than ideal somehow falls well short of the job of demonstrating something else is better.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon



Exactly, maybe you will follow your own advice 🙂

I'm not the one spamming "Don't like, Don't click" to every criticism of the Ron Paul spam bots. I think its perfectly fine to criticize someone for spamming. I was just giving you the same advice that you give everyone else.

The only ones spamming in this thread up until the don't click fiasco was Ron Paul haters. Everyone of them mentioned nothing about the topic, but instead spewed crap, spamming their hatred and disgust for a man and not his views on patriotism. Regardless of what your response is, if you come into a thread and do not contribute to the thread topic, you are trolling and spamming. People need to stop acting like children on these forums. As if an outside "force" made you troll/spam. Reminds me of this kind of idiocy. You do not have to look, read or respond to anything posted. Get a grip, if you can't control your own decision making, you're not an adult, but rather, a grown child.