Romney's Bipartisan Myth: He played so well w/Dems, he issued 844 vetoes against them

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/u...n-massachusetts-could-irk-lawmakers.html?_r=0

Romney likes to get on stage and talk a great deal about how well he worked with Democrats in Mass...as if he has some kind of long bipartisan history that would help him bridge the current partisan divide we currently have.

What a load of crap.

Lawmakers blocked his ambitions to remake the state’s judicial, public university and transportation systems, and Mr. Romney wielded his veto pen as no Massachusetts governor has before or since. He issued 844 vetoes, most of which the legislature overrode, sometimes unanimously, in marathon sessions.

“People often talk about Romney’s leadership ability, but a lot of it went unused because of his attitude toward the legislature,” said Maurice T. Cunningham, chairman of the political science department at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. “With better relations, he would have been able to do so much more.”

Obama could strike quite a blow to Romney with this large of a figure.......
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Damn, that's awesome! I'm still 50/50 on whether I want to vote in gridlock or not. If voting in Romney means we absolutely get gridlock, that would help on my vote.

Then again, I hate Romney....
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Damn, that's awesome! I'm still 50/50 on whether I want to vote in gridlock or not. If voting in Romney means we absolutely get gridlock, that would help on my vote.

Then again, I hate Romney....

We're still in a state of recovery from Bush. As much as the "buh Bush" republicans like to whine it's all over, he struck such a blow that we'll probably be directly recovering for 20 years and feeling it for 50 maybe 100 (looking at things besides just the direction of the economy(like debt/national opinion)). We had far too much gridlock for the last four years, and now isn't the time for absolute gridlock either. Things like the deficit actually do need to be worked out and the status quo isn't a solution. This the best government is the one that watches everything burn to the ground argument is a fools one. Look at the countries doing well right now; they're not doing nothing while failed policies remain in place.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
We're still in a state of recovery from Bush.

You mean, in a state of recovery from The Rich, who are served by Dem's and Rep's alike, right? I'm pretty sure the last two years of Bush had a Dem Congress at the helm...or is that not right?

As much as the "buh Bush" republicans like to whine it's all over, he struck such a blow that we'll probably be directly recovering for 20 years and feeling it for 50 maybe 100 (looking at things besides just the direction of the economy(like debt/national opinion)).

MMmmmm...yes...the 'buh Bush Rep's' that you're 'buh Bushing' about, when plenty of Dem's were serving The Rich as well. I love the 'buh Bushers', always good for the insanity entertainment.

We had far too much gridlock for the last four years, and now isn't the time for absolute gridlock either. Things like the deficit actually do need to be worked out and the status quo isn't a solution.

Gridlock got us to "only" $16T in Fed debt. Had we not had gridlock, one shudders at what we'd be up to at this point. Dare I say $20T+ if we'd had a continuation of the Dem supermajority.

This the best government is the one that watches everything burn to the ground argument is a fools one.

I agree partially. 50% of me doesn't want it to watch, I want to help it along as much as possible so we get to the burnt out point before China and India come online in a serious way. The other 50% doesn't want to see the pain and suffering of scorched US, so gridlock is the best other option. Insanely delusional options, such as, believe anything coming out of any Dem or Rep mouth, are immediately discarded. Those two parties played 100% of the role in getting us where we are now. Trusting anything either of them had to say would be like trusting a strung out crack whore to watch your unlocked crack stash w/o touching it.

Look at the countries doing well right now; they're not doing nothing while failed policies remain in place.

But they're not the US, that's not really a great example.

Chuck
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
You mean, in a state of recovery from The Rich, who are served by Dem's and Rep's alike, right? I'm pretty sure the last two years of Bush had a Dem Congress at the helm...or is that not right?

MMmmmm...yes...the 'buh Bush Rep's' that you're 'buh Bushing' about, when plenty of Dem's were serving The Rich as well. I love the 'buh Bushers', always good for the insanity entertainment.

Gridlock got us to "only" $16T in Fed debt. Had we not had gridlock, one shudders at what we'd be up to at this point. Dare I say $20T+ if we'd had a continuation of the Dem supermajority.

I agree partially. 50% of me doesn't want it to watch, I want to help it along as much as possible so we get to the burnt out point before China and India come online in a serious way. The other 50% doesn't want to see the pain and suffering of scorched US, so gridlock is the best other option. Insanely delusional options, such as, believe anything coming out of any Dem or Rep mouth, are immediately discarded. Those two parties played 100% of the role in getting us where we are now. Trusting anything either of them had to say would be like trusting a strung out crack whore to watch your unlocked crack stash w/o touching it.

But they're not the US, that's not really a great example.

Chuck

The bulk of the damage done was done before 2006. The major complaint of that congress was their ineffectiveness not their movement in line with Bush.

The time to spend is when your country is bleeding out. Gridlock got us an anemic recovery from the worst economic disaster since the great depression. No gridlock might have gotten us a normal recovery. The time to pay back is when times are good. Look at a chart of national debt if you want to see how things are supposed to work. Well, except when certain republicans have been in office, but they're the "fiscally responsible" side.

When I talk of countries succeeding, I'm talking more about places like Germany and Canada not countries that are more backwards than 19th century America. Economic growth isn't the end all metric for how well a country is doing especially in regards to it's actual citizens.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
With the mentality of the current GOP we need a democratic majority if Obama is re elected. They will not compromise and are hell bent on making Obama fail.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
The bulk of the damage done was done before 2006. The major complaint of that congress was their ineffectiveness not their movement in line with Bush.

Right, and the Dem's prior to 2008 were screaming left and right that we needed to reign in spending, get the budget balanced, and as soon as they were elected in 2006, that's what they did, right?

The time to spend is when your country is bleeding out.

We did, and have been doing, that. The last budget we had was $2T. We've been spending $1T over that. That's $1T of stimulus spending on top of whatever other stimulus spending is happening. You have your stimulus each year and it's not touching the problem.

Gridlock got us an anemic recovery from the worst economic disaster since the great depression. No gridlock might have gotten us a normal recovery.

Gridlock got you "only" $1T extra blown each year. That you want to go past $4T+ of deficit spending because you didn't feel it was enough is just not something that can be sustained. I want a lambo. I can't afford it (well, I choose to not afford it, I guess I could if I wanted to be like the Fed). Therefore I don't have one. I'm still living, despite me not having a lambo. See how easy that was?

The time to pay back is when times are good. Look at a chart of national debt if you want to see how things are supposed to work. Well, except when certain republicans have been in office, but they're the "fiscally responsible" side.

Right. That's the theory. Except it never happens. You go look at a chart of the national debt when budgets were "only" what they were running when Clinton was POTUS, when the economy was booming not because of anything Clinton did, but rather, because he enjoyed being POTUS during a tech boom, and thus enjoying plenty of Fed tax income, and let us know how much the Fed debt was paid down in those awesome times of economic prosperity. What's that?!?! It wasn't touched?!?! You mean, they limited it to just not getting worse, they didn't raise taxes across the board/cut spending to make the debt go down??? How can that be so, you just said they'd be paid back when times were good! Gee, how good do the times have to be for the debt to be paid down? Better than even the .com era? Yeah....good luck with that. This is why the excuse of "We'll pay down this insane debt when times are good, just let us keep up the insane spending levels so we can prop up the house of cards" logic is immediately discarded. We know the qualifier is BS, which makes the case for the Want BS. Find a better case, don't keep repeating it.

When I talk of countries succeeding, I'm talking more about places like Germany and Canada not countries that are more backwards than 19th century America. Economic growth isn't the end all metric for how well a country is doing especially in regards to it's actual citizens.

Germany? Who enjoys their position in the EU and did large austerity reform? Canada, who can make the policy decisions they make in large part because of their proximity and partnership with the US?

The fact is, no other country in the world is in the position the US is in because they are not the US. We have our own unique problems and situation, just because something works for one country doesn't automagically mean it'll work for us.

Chuck
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Right, and the Dem's prior to 2008 were screaming left and right that we needed to reign in spending, get the budget balanced, and as soon as they were elected in 2006, that's what they did, right?

We did, and have been doing, that. The last budget we had was $2T. We've been spending $1T over that. That's $1T of stimulus spending on top of whatever other stimulus spending is happening. You have your stimulus each year and it's not touching the problem.

Gridlock got you "only" $1T extra blown each year. That you want to go past $4T+ of deficit spending because you didn't feel it was enough is just not something that can be sustained. I want a lambo. I can't afford it (well, I choose to not afford it, I guess I could if I wanted to be like the Fed). Therefore I don't have one. I'm still living, despite me not having a lambo. See how easy that was?

Right. That's the theory. Except it never happens. You go look at a chart of the national debt when budgets were "only" what they were running when Clinton was POTUS, when the economy was booming not because of anything Clinton did, but rather, because he enjoyed being POTUS during a tech boom, and thus enjoying plenty of Fed tax income, and let us know how much the Fed debt was paid down in those awesome times of economic prosperity. What's that?!?! It wasn't touched?!?! You mean, they limited it to just not getting worse, they didn't raise taxes across the board/cut spending to make the debt go down??? How can that be so, you just said they'd be paid back when times were good! Gee, how good do the times have to be for the debt to be paid down? Better than even the .com era? Yeah....good luck with that. This is why the excuse of "We'll pay down this insane debt when times are good, just let us keep up the insane spending levels so we can prop up the house of cards" logic is immediately discarded. We know the qualifier is BS, which makes the case for the Want BS. Find a better case, don't keep repeating it.

Germany? Who enjoys their position in the EU and did large austerity reform? Canada, who can make the policy decisions they make in large part because of their proximity and partnership with the US?

The fact is, no other country in the world is in the position the US is in because they are not the US. We have our own unique problems and situation, just because something works for one country doesn't automagically mean it'll work for us.

Chuck

That the democrats were ineffective is a sad tale, but what's your point? They failed at anything they wanted to do; it's not like they were in a vacuum with 100% power to themselves either. If you have a point on this matter, you should make it, or is it you don't understand politicians don't always get what they want despite your enthusiasm for gridlock.

You can make up whatever revisionism you want to excuse the results. However, results are results, and history for the past hundred years is set in stone.

Yes, successful countries adjust their policies as needed. They don't sit in gridlock while everything burns down. Thanks for making my point. There's wisdom in realizing the differences in countries, but there's also foolishness in thinking we have nothing to learn from others either.
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
That the democrats were ineffective is a sad tale, but what's your point? They failed at anything they wanted to do; it's not like they were in a vacuum with 100% power to themselves either.

Ineffective? They were the Congress in power for the 2007 and 2008 budgets. They had a supermajority when the POTUS was their party leader. That's not ineffective, that's incompetence. That party hasn't changed btw, it's still the same leadership by far and large.

If you have a point on this matter, you should make it, or is it you don't understand politicians don't always get what they want despite your enthusiasm for gridlock.

I'd say the same to you, in light of your debunked 'buh Bush' rant.

You can make up whatever revisionism you want to excuse the results. However, results are results, and history for the past hundred years is set in stone.

The irony of you telling me this is....irony. You're proposing we needed to spend even more than we've spent, on the basis that, when times are good, we'll pay down that debt. Results are results, and history for the past hundred years is set in stone. Which is why we know what you're purporting to happen is complete and total BS. Which makes your case for continuing to blow large sums of money one dangerously close to total BS. Notice I said dangerously close, I left an out for you there. Just find some better yang to the yin of $1T yearly deficits acting as yearly stimulus and maybe we can revisit.

Yes, successful countries adjust their policies as needed. They don't sit in gridlock while everything burns down. Thanks for making my point. There's wisdom in realizing the differences in countries, but there's also foolishness in thinking we have nothing to learn from others either.

Er, I'm not sure that makes your point. Your point is you want the Dems to spend even more money, so you hope there's no gridlock. The example I gave was partly one of Germany who enacted austerity measures, the opposite of what you're proposing. How is that making your point, other than they didn't do gridlock?

As far as gridlock goes, if I had any confidence that any Congress and any POTUS could actually do what's right for the US long term, I'd not want gridlock or scorched earth policy. I have -110% confidence in either of those bodies of government. It is a guarantee neither candidate is who we really need, and it is a guarantee that Congress, regardless of which party controls it, will suck at their duties.

I can understand the hope in thinking otherwise though, I don't fault people for that...

Chuck
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Well it's obvious that he is a massive liar and I lol at anyone who believes he has bipartisan intentions whatsoever. Same with Ryan.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
We did, and have been doing, that. The last budget we had was $2T. We've been spending $1T over that. That's $1T of stimulus spending on top of whatever other stimulus spending is happening. You have your stimulus each year and it's not touching the problem.



Chuck

Forgot to comment on this. You seem to lack any sense of actual scale, which you should have when you bother to comment on things like this. 14.5 trillion dollars bleed out of companies practically over night. It was the worst economic collapse since the great depression. So when you talk about single and double trillions in stimulus to try to recover. That's only a tiny fraction compared to the problem at hand.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Ineffective? They were the Congress in power for the 2007 and 2008 budgets. They had a supermajority when the POTUS was their party leader. That's not ineffective, that's incompetence. That party hasn't changed btw, it's still the same leadership by far and large.

I'd say the same to you, in light of your debunked 'buh Bush' rant.

The irony of you telling me this is....irony. You're proposing we needed to spend even more than we've spent, on the basis that, when times are good, we'll pay down that debt. Results are results, and history for the past hundred years is set in stone. Which is why we know what you're purporting to happen is complete and total BS. Which makes your case for continuing to blow large sums of money one dangerously close to total BS. Notice I said dangerously close, I left an out for you there. Just find some better yang to the yin of $1T yearly deficits acting as yearly stimulus and maybe we can revisit.

Er, I'm not sure that makes your point. Your point is you want the Dems to spend even more money, so you hope there's no gridlock. The example I gave was partly one of Germany who enacted austerity measures, the opposite of what you're proposing. How is that making your point, other than they didn't do gridlock?

As far as gridlock goes, if I had any confidence that any Congress and any POTUS could actually do what's right for the US long term, I'd not want gridlock or scorched earth policy. I have -110% confidence in either of those bodies of government. It is a guarantee neither candidate is who we really need, and it is a guarantee that Congress, regardless of which party controls it, will suck at their duties.

I can understand the hope in thinking otherwise though, I don't fault people for that...

Chuck

Ineffective and incompetent are not mutually exclusive, and a super-majority for democrats doesn't mean too much as democrats don't work together nearly as well as republicans. They're a fairly mixed bag of ideas.

If you bothered to look up charts on national debt you'd see it's gone down during all time other then recessions and when Reagan and Bush Jr. were presidents. Yea, when times are good income goes up. That doesn't take a genius to figure out. Some people actually make it part of their plan rather then squander it, believe it or not! If things are setup right you shouldn't need to make massive cuts when times are good. Simply ceasing stimulus spending and having increased income should be sufficient. It's when you cut taxes like crazy and have unfunded wars when times are good that shit really hits the fan when something like the great recession happens. Also, see my other post about scale. It's really tiring when one side doesn't understand what actually is going on in the world.

Yes yes, you'd rather see the world burn. I get it. It's emotionally satisfying to you to kind of give an f-u to the politicians by thinking you're screwing up their day. Having a working government starts with the people in a democracy.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,749
6,319
126
With the mentality of the current GOP we need a democratic majority if Obama is re elected. They will not compromise and are hell bent on making Obama fail.

Even with a Dem Monopoly, it seems doubtful that Obama could execute his agenda.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Obama has never been bipartisan in his political career and never will should he reelected.

Frankly, if you are for Obama you most likely don't want him to be bipartisan and if you are for the Republicans you most likely don't want them to be bipartisan.

The only time either side really likes something bipartisan is when their side got the other side to cave to what they want.