Romney on minimum wage

[QuantumPion]

Since the 1980s I have seen shipyards close, numerous welding shops close, people that once held metal working jobs are being forced into other job markets.

That's a direct result of steel tariffs passed in the late 70's.

 

[Patranus]

They can and do. And then they don't want to pay certain segments so they ship the jobs overseas. That is where they need to be taxed heavily...or in a suggestion by I believe Pres. Obama--remove any of their tax breaks.

Except for the fact that the lower end of the wage scale IS NOT determined by the free market.

 

[Patranus]

We have millions of illegal immigrants who will work for a lower wage then most US citizens.

No, we have millions of illegal immigrants who can work for a lower wage because it would be illegal for a US citizen to work for that wage.

 

[soulcougher73]

No, we have millions of illegal immigrants who can work for a lower wage because it would be illegal for a US citizen to work for that wage.

And you're ok with that im assuming? That is a totally seperate issue though.

 

[Acanthus]

If a worker thinks they are not getting fair compensation for the work then they are more than free to take their skills to an open market. Really don't see what is so difficult about this.

The open market doesn't have any acceptable jobs.

They have all been outsourced to nations with slave wages.

 

[Acanthus]

I really don't get why the free market cannot determine what certain skill sets are worth.

Because in the world of "commodity labor" you are going to minimize the cost of labor and damn the consequences.

Rather than pay someone in the US $7.25 an hour, and make sure you're OSHA compliant, and pay higher taxes, etc... You can have someone in Cambodia do it for next to nothing.

It doesn't matter that you're cheating the system.

Soldiers are often quoted as saying the slogan "freedom isn't free", it applies to the business world as well. Workers with rights are more expensive than workers with no rights. Employers should not have access to workers with no rights without paying a hefty import tax for doing so.

So when you hear someone say "american workers are uncompetitive" what they are really saying is "people with rights are too expensive".

 

[Texashiker]

That's a direct result of steel tariffs passed in the late 70's.

Why would you think that?

Shipyards closing is due to free trade and cheap labor overseas.

 

[BoberFett]

And you're ok with that im assuming? That is a totally seperate issue though.

It's not a totally separate issue. It means that the legal minimum wage isn't the minimum wage, only that's the minimum wage an American is allowed to work for.

As somebody else pointed out earlier (and always does) is that you pay what a job is worth, not what a person is worth. If a job doesn't add more value than minimum wage, there are only a few possibilities. One is that the work gets done by an illegal immigrant. If that's not an option, the work is offshored. Finally, if the first two options aren't possible, the work simply doesn't get done.

 

[Texashiker]

If a job doesn't add more value than minimum wage, there are only a few possibilities. One is that the work gets done by an illegal immigrant. If that's not an option, the work is offshored. Finally, if the first two options aren't possible, the work simply doesn't get done.

Or, the wage is out balanced across the departments.

I used to work in welding shops, so lets take a welding shop as an example.

Mechanical Engineers - were at the top of the chain, they got paid the most to design the parts.

Supervisor - next highest paid

Forearm - next highest

Fitter and welder - next

Helper/Laborer - last

The helper barely added enough to the job to justify the wage. On the other hand, the engineer was not paid as high as engineers working in chemical plants or overseas.

The welder and fitter did not make as much as people working in the refineries, but we did not have the dangers of explosions either.

In the overall grand scheme of things, the team has to balance out. You take from one department to make sure another department can do its job. Without the last department the part could not get finished. We can not outsource moving a 30 ton part to china to preform a trivial job description. The owner of the company had to decrease the wages across the board to make sure we had laborers. That way everyone gets a paycheck, and the parts get built.

 

[soulcougher73]

Or, the wage is out balanced across the departments.

I used to work in welding shops, so lets take a welding shop as an example.

Mechanical Engineers - were at the top of the chain, they got paid the most to design the parts.

Supervisor - next highest paid

Forearm - next highest

Fitter and welder - next

Helper/Laborer - last

The helper barely added enough to the job to justify the wage. On the other hand, the engineer was not paid as high as engineers working in chemical plants or overseas.

The welder and fitter did not make as much as people working in the refineries, but we did not have the dangers of explosions either.

In the overall grand scheme of things, the team has to balance out. You take from one department to make sure another department can do its job. Without the last department the part could not get finished. We can not outsource moving a 30 ton part to china to preform a trivial job description. The owner of the company had to decrease the wages across the board to make sure we had laborers. That way everyone gets a paycheck, and the parts get built.

No way. Outsource it all for pennies on the dollar and bump the CEOs pay <--GOP responce lol

 

[Patranus]

And you're ok with that im assuming? That is a totally seperate issue though.

No. I think that the US worker should be able to bid market rate for their labor.
So if that market rate is picking crops for $4.50 an hour, a US worker should be able to obtain that job.
If someone has no other source of income, picking crop for $4.50 an hour is a lot better for society than mooching off the taxpayer.

Hell, in CA we are paying people $12.50 per hour in unemployment to sit around and do nothing.
If we are going to pay them unemployment they could be in a field picking crop for $4.50 an hour and the other $8 can be subsidized.

 

[The-Noid]

Minimum wage doesn't make sense, but I can't think of anyway to fix it.

Having said that, I would much rather pay someone for training than have a fixed minimum rate you can pay an employee.

The only question I have on minimum wage is how many jobs are really left at minimum wage, I just can't imagine how unskilled you would have to be to make minimum wage. I haven't seen a sign in month that was less than $9/hour. I drive by a personnel service on the way to work daily and their billboard has factory jobs that average closer to $13.

When I think minimum wage, I think of jobs people get in high school summers that aren't permanent. Are there many permanent jobs left that are at minimum wage?

 

[Craig234]

Minimum wage doesn't make sense, but I can't think of anyway to fix it.

Having said that, I would much rather pay someone for training than have a fixed minimum rate you can pay an employee.

The only question I have on minimum wage is how many jobs are really left at minimum wage, I just can't imagine how unskilled you would have to be to make minimum wage.

Ask Texas, since they reportedly have the highest percent of people at minimum wage.

Minimum wage makes plenty of sense. It helps reduce 'starvation wages'.

 

[The-Noid]

Ask Texas, since they reportedly have the highest percent of people at minimum wage.

Minimum wage makes plenty of sense. It helps reduce 'starvation wages'.

I just mean as a metric it makes little sense.

Something like the rule in Norway where the highest paid employee can't make more than 50x the lowest paid employee is a better way to handle starvation wages and adds to profit sharing in the company.

Like I said, I really can't believe there are many people left that work full time and make minimum wage.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

OMG, Romney's a closet communist and he could become the Republican candidate!!!