News Roe v. Wade overturned

[cytg111]

It's been tried repeatedly and it just doesn't work.

Nice guys who play fair really DO finish last at least in America.

Maybe its sellable in Ukraine though? Listen up UKR soldiers, if you just find it in yourselves to forgive yourself and love yourself and by extension everyone else.. The Russians will disappear like a bad case of covid injected with bleach.... by magic *snaps fingers*.

"More love" is surely a ingredient in the larger picture in terms of managing a coherent society going forward, 20-30-100 years into the future. It just does *nothing* in terms of the adversary in front of you right now... Its what moonie keeps getting wrong. You can be "in the right" and be dead at the same time. The fascist pulling his bayonet out of your chest dont care.

 

[uallas5]

Man Alito and the GOP spelling it out. Domestic Infant Supply.

And here I was thinking that having FEWER babies that needed adoption was a good thing.

 

[HomerJS]

Trumpet this loudly. It basically knocks down Alito's entire argument

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, rights do not have to be explicitly listed in the Constitution.

Note to Dems: After submitting bill to codify Roe which will fail they should follow it with a bill making all forms of birth control approved by the FDA/CDC legal in all 50 states. It will also fail but there will be a very powerful talking point "Republicans want to take away your birth control"

 

[HomerJS]

Democratic voters do little themselves to set an example for rural America and socially traditional places to want to emulate when all you have to do is point to the news and say, that's what will happen hear if you vote for Democrats.

First of all what news? Think Fox give a reasonable representation of what goes on in the country? May as well tune to RT.

Why can't rural voters understand expanding healthcare? Dems get the ACA passed and Republican Governers and legislatures stop Medicaid expansion which would afford that very healthcare.

 

[HomerJS]

People believe abortion should be legal but it's not important enough to stand in line on election day.

But phony CRT is? I don't get it.

 

[K1052]

Trumpet this loudly. It basically knocks down Alito's entire argument



In other words, rights do not have to be explicitly listed in the Constitution.

Note to Dems: After submitting bill to codify Roe which will fail they should follow it with a bill making all forms of birth control approved by the FDA/CDC legal in all 50 states. It will also fail but there will be a very powerful talking point "Republicans want to take away your birth control"

Alito's entire opinion is a dumpster fire of cultural grievance, misogyny, extremely dubious legal reasoning, and intentional misrepresentations. The man invented a new standard whole cloth that isn't even historically accurate while appealing to "history and tradition". A little thing like the constitution is not going to stop them.

 

[Pohemi]

Democratic voters do little themselves to set an example for rural America and socially traditional places to want to emulate when all you have to do is point to the news and say, that's what will happen hear if you vote for Democrats. Your society will be ruined and they will take your only means of self protection.

The bolded needs to stop being used to describe the "old times" that they're trying to recreate. 'Socially OUTDATED' is far more accurate, and much of it never existed as they would claim in the first place.

First of all what news? Think Fox give a reasonable representation of what goes on in the country? May as well tune to RT.

The sources don't matter imo. Not as long as we have no laws requiring truth in media. What matters is that there will be people living in rural areas that will believe the rhetoric no matter who is shoveling it to them. Too much deep division for them to see reason and logic, it's only a game of opposition and self-victimization at this point...the majority of the GOP voting base stopped voting for their own best interests when Nixon introduced the Southern Strategy. Digging in their heels on projection and misinformation has only gotten them more entrenched in the several generations since.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why can't rural voters understand expanding healthcare?

Like a food you've never eaten. Do you appreciate the taste? Of course not. Young, healthy, people are pressed for cash as it is. They view healthcare as something they will be required to pay for... so OTHER people can use it.
It is you "taking" from them.

To flip that narrative they must either get sick and need help, to learn first hand, or get a taste for Government "handouts". Lead them into it by demonstrating with Basic Income and Housing.

Those are the fundamentals. Of course you are also dealing with propaganda that Government is evil and men are islands of independence, separate from one another. AKA Fantasy.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Like a food you've never eaten. Do you appreciate the taste? Of course not. Young, healthy, people are pressed for cash as it is. They view healthcare as something they will be required to pay for... so OTHER people can use it.
It is you "taking" from them.

To flip that narrative they must either get sick and need help, to learn first hand, or get a taste for Government "handouts". Lead them into it by demonstrating with Basic Income and Housing.

Those are the fundamentals. Of course you are also dealing with propaganda that Government is evil and men are islands of independence, separate from one another. AKA Fantasy.

do rural people NOT get sick or otherwise require medical attention? ironically, they would be some of the biggest beneficiaries, as the ability to access care - or the right kind of care - is going to be greater in cities than anywhere else. rural hospital systems are already stressed and some of the least profitable for healthcare organizations to run because of low population densities.

UHC is already a tough sell. you think UBI would be an easier sell?

 

[Pohemi]

UHC is already a tough sell. you think UBI would be an easier sell?

Beat me to this comment. Seems a funny (and somewhat ridiculous) notion that people who fight against UHC would even consider or discuss UBI before tossing it out the window and screaming about lazy libs taking their hard-earned scratch. I think he got the order of operations reversed in that scenario.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Alito's entire opinion is a dumpster fire of cultural grievance, misogyny, extremely dubious legal reasoning, and intentional misrepresentations. The man invented a new standard whole cloth that isn't even historically accurate while appealing to "history and tradition". A little thing like the constitution is not going to stop them.

Thats what you get when you appoint christian nationalists with all it's bullshit to the highest court in the land

What Alito concludes is, even if there is a right to abortion, it is not fundamental. So, bodily integrity isn’t a fundamental right?. Alito would say that the Constitution doesn’t say it is a fundamental right, so even if it is a fundamental right, the U.S. Supreme Court can’t decide that it is one.

Does he know The Bible requires abortion in the case of a wife becoming pregnant through adultery.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers 5:11-31&version=NIV

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

There is also a passage in Exodus listing punishments for killing a person (death) or hitting a woman such that she miscarries (a fine). That seems like the authors of the Bible didn’t believe the fetus was a human, or that killing it is murder.

Exodus 21:22 - Personal Injury Laws

If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband demands and as the court allows.

biblehub.com

Jewish tradition holds that a new born is ensouled when it draws its first breath, as God ensouled Adam by breathing into his nostrils. It seems the Bible supports this.

Of course, the Bible also supports keeping slaves, and beating a slave such that he dies is only murder if he dies right away. If he lingers a few days, it’s just property damage. And in several places the Jews are told to commit genocide against the Amalakites. So you might not actually want to look to the Bible for moral guidance.

But this idea that abortion has always been seen as a murder is simply a lie.

Not to mention that the body of Jewish oral law and commentary goes into depth about punishments to be dealt when for example you cause a death or damage through negligence (the example given is that you allow an ox that is drawing your cart to escape, run wild, and trample people or property). The punishment for causing a pregnant woman to miscarry is consistent with property damage, not the punishment for if the ox kills someone.

 

[Pohemi]

^ ^ ^ 98% of people who claim to, "Live by the word of the good book" also practice selective intellectual consistency. Alito just does it with the constitution as well (like so many conservatards).

 

[VRAMdemon]

It's also worth noting that Alito’s citations of Sir Matthew Hale in his leaked majority opinion. Hale was a huge advocate for marital rape. Like many early modern men, he believed that women's bodies belonged to men, first their father when they were born and then their husband when they were married. Women were not seen as autonomous beings.

Meet Sir Matthew Hale, the 17th century misogynist that Justice Alito mentioned 9 times in his leaked SCOTUS opinion

Supreme Court Abortion Overturn Draft Cites Sir Matthew Hale

Hale, just like a lot of Christian extremists today, believed that women were made from Adam's rib. God did not make her as an autonomous being with rights. She was a physical extension of his body, made to be his "helpmeet," namely to exist to help him to whatever he wants. According to Hale - Beating your wife was not only permissible by law but also encouraged as a corrective tool. Hale, like many other legal writers of his day, subscribed to the "rule of thumb" - namely, you could beat your wife with an object that was not thicker than a man's thumb.

To Hale, A woman's primary purpose in adulthood was to be married, be obedient to a man, & to have children. Alito invoking Hale in his opinion seems to make it clear that he also thinks this too. It's his duty as a man to put the bodily fate of women in the hands of states run by white men. Keep in mind that Hale was only talking about white Christian women. Women who didn't fall into this category were debated as even being women. They were viewed as less than human with even less rights.

Alito's invocation of Hale is so fucked up on so many levels that there isn't a way to possibly overreact to how shitty his legal standing is here. Alito knows that by kicking reproductive control back to the states that he is putting an incredible amount of power in the hands of the men who control these communities. Alito knows how much power and influence local churches have on local leadership. He knows most of these institutions are controlled by men. He is counting on it. He knows the biggest threat to women are the men in their homes and communities.

The Federalist Society fulfilled their plan to have a SCOTUS that will reverse all the advances made in the last 100 years that challenge the supremacy of white Christian nationalists. Roe is the 1st to go. Look for others to follow.

 

[Moonbeam]

I see you haven't left your little blind bubble yet. Maybe one of these days you'll resolve your philoso-spiritual ramblings with the real fucking world and how it (currently) operates.

“Love is, in my opinion, the resolution to how I see the world currently operating. Why would I would then concern myself with what you think you see as me being blind when you can’t comprehend and misconstrue what is expressed.

The bolded needs to stop being used to describe the "old times" that they're trying to recreate. 'Socially OUTDATED' is far more accurate, and much of it never existed as they would claim in the first place.

I have no problem with how you wish to critique them. I simple wanted to identify the group I was talking about not analyze them.

 

[Zorba]

No abortion and no contraception is going to be the reality in many red sates soon and the public is unprepared.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522909109292523522

Safe districts, and closed primaries have made republicans lose all filters. This is headed to woman being locked up for premarital sex.

 

[Muse]

It's also worth noting that Alito’s citations of Sir Matthew Hale in his leaked majority opinion. Hale was a huge advocate for marital rape. Like many early modern men, he believed that women's bodies belonged to men, first their father when they were born and then their husband when they were married. Women were not seen as autonomous beings.

Meet Sir Matthew Hale, the 17th century misogynist that Justice Alito mentioned 9 times in his leaked SCOTUS opinion

Supreme Court Abortion Overturn Draft Cites Sir Matthew Hale

Hale, just like a lot of Christian extremists today, believed that women were made from Adam's rib. God did not make her as an autonomous being with rights. She was a physical extension of his body, made to be his "helpmeet," namely to exist to help him to whatever he wants. According to Hale - Beating your wife was not only permissible by law but also encouraged as a corrective tool. Hale, like many other legal writers of his day, subscribed to the "rule of thumb" - namely, you could beat your wife with an object that was not thicker than a man's thumb.

To Hale, A woman's primary purpose in adulthood was to be married, be obedient to a man, & to have children. Alito invoking Hale in his opinion seems to make it clear that he also thinks this too. It's his duty as a man to put the bodily fate of women in the hands of states run by white men. Keep in mind that Hale was only talking about white Christian women. Women who didn't fall into this category were debated as even being women. They were viewed as less than human with even less rights.

Alito's invocation of Hale is so fucked up on so many levels that there isn't a way to possibly overreact to how shitty his legal standing is here. Alito knows that by kicking reproductive control back to the states that he is putting an incredible amount of power in the hands of the men who control these communities. Alito knows how much power and influence local churches have on local leadership. He knows most of these institutions are controlled by men. He is counting on it. He knows the biggest threat to women are the men in their homes and communities.

The Federalist Society fulfilled their plan to have a SCOTUS that will reverse all the advances made in the last 100 years that challenge the supremacy of white Christian nationalists. Roe is the 1st to go. Look for others to follow.

Is there a way out of this or is this fait accompli for the right in America?

I figure if protests get sufficiently unmanageable, out of control, concerning and scary, if it becomes clear to the court that they are unleashing a Pandora's box of revolt that will not subside, they might not furnish essentially the same decision as the leaked draft. Other than that, I just don't know that we can be saved from civic catastrophe in America.

 

[Pohemi]

“Love is, in my opinion, the resolution to how I see the world currently operating. Why would I would then concern myself with what you think you see as me being blind when you can’t comprehend and misconstrue what is expressed.

I misconstrued nothing. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand, or that you have some powerful knowledge of the universe that nobody else "gets".

As a philosophical ideal, I get it. Be the change you wish to see in the world. In reality, however, it's a childish notion. Ask 8 billion people to listen to your proclamations. Good luck with that.

Nobody expected or asked you to be concerned about my opinion of you. Your commentary has been repeatedly rejected by more than just me on these boards, and yet you still haven't gotten it through your thick skull that nobody here cares or is listening to your self-proclaimed 'wisdom'.

 

[HomerJS]

More of the greatest hits from Sr. Matthew Hale

Meet Sir Matthew Hale, the 17th century misogynist that Justice Alito mentioned 9 times in his leaked SCOTUS opinion | Boing Boing

Hale was responsible for the 1662 judgement that sent two women accused of witchcraft to their deaths. The case would serve as inspiration for the Salem witch trials. His ideas on rapeless marriage were the law of the land in England until 1991 and have continued to be cited in court as recently as 2009.

 

[Pohemi]

I know this has been mentioned already, but this AP article is a decent summary of how SCOTUS justice's opinions on Roe are suddenly differing now from their previous confirmation hearing statements.

What GOP-nominated justices said about Roe to Senate panel

In one form or another, every Supreme Court nominee is asked during Senate hearings about his or her views of the landmark abortion rights ruling that has stood for a half century.

apnews.com

 

[HomerJS]

I know this has been mentioned already, but this AP article is a decent summary of how SCOTUS justice's opinions on Roe are suddenly differing now from their previous confirmation hearing statements.

What GOP-nominated justices said about Roe to Senate panel

In one form or another, every Supreme Court nominee is asked during Senate hearings about his or her views of the landmark abortion rights ruling that has stood for a half century.

apnews.com

You mean they lied.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Like a food you've never eaten. Do you appreciate the taste? Of course not. Young, healthy, people are pressed for cash as it is. They view healthcare as something they will be required to pay for... so OTHER people can use it.
It is you "taking" from them.

To flip that narrative they must either get sick and need help, to learn first hand, or get a taste for Government "handouts". Lead them into it by demonstrating with Basic Income and Housing.

Those are the fundamentals. Of course you are also dealing with propaganda that Government is evil and men are islands of independence, separate from one another. AKA Fantasy.

Interesting that you blame the young, healthy people, when it's actually the older people who have the attitude that I am not going to support others, have the misconception that UHC will cost them all they worked for in life, and cost them more going forward with the attitude "I had to work for it all, so you have to work for it all be damned", regardless what's right for humanity and society as a whole. Who spend decades trying to manipulate and program the younger generation to think the same. It's propaganda and lies like you are trying to present here, throwing false facts as you ignore the truth that has lead us to where we are today. It's the older people who are voting, it's the older people who are in political positions that are destroying this country with their old ways of thinking and their closed minds, not the younger people. The Exception we had a flux of younger generation who came out and vote this past election to help remove Trump for various reason. Most young people stay out of politics, don't vote and really don't care until they are older and gain some maturity, because they don't understand and don't realize just how important being involved in such matters are. So, where are you getting this Young people crap?

 

[Moonbeam]

I misconstrued nothing. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand, or that you have some powerful knowledge of the universe that nobody else "gets".

As a philosophical ideal, I get it. Be the change you wish to see in the world. In reality, however, it's a childish notion. Ask 8 billion people to listen to your proclamations. Good luck with that.

Nobody expected or asked you to be concerned about my opinion of you. Your commentary has been repeatedly rejected by more than just me on these boards, and yet you still haven't gotten it through your thick skull that nobody here cares or is listening to your self-proclaimed 'wisdom'.

You mean the person who says why people can't allow themselves to care and are deaf to truth as a result isn't aware that people aren't listening? Are you sure that rather than not listening they are enraged when presented the facts. Oh, you listen to the truth all right, but what you are hearing is how badly it offends your ego. You aren't the only one who can throw insults. Good luck with you authoritarian cancel culture you poor poor triggered Karen.

 

[trenchfoot]

You mean they lied.

As we all know, conservative judges on the Supreme Court aren't being picked for their impartiality and subservience to the limitations the Constitution applies to their abilities. Therefore, they have to lie, deceive and hide their true motives and intent as they are mere tools of big business interests and those reactionary religious fundamentalists that want to restore their perceived supremacy over the people of the nation.

Economic and religious domination over the people of the nation is the goal they have in common. Our Constitution is an impediment toward their goals and the reason why it is under constant attack by those political, economic and religious entities. All of whom are seeking to accomplish their goals through the takeover of the Republican party.

 

[Moonbeam]

Interesting that you blame the young, healthy people, when it's actually the older people who have the attitude that I am not going to support others, have the misconception that UHC will cost them all they worked for in life, and cost them more going forward with the attitude "I had to work for it all, so you have to work for it all be damned", regardless what's right for humanity and society as a whole. Who spend decades trying to manipulate and program the younger generation to think the same. It's propaganda and lies like you are trying to present here, throwing false facts as you ignore the truth that has lead us to where we are today. It's the older people who are voting, it's the older people who are in political positions that are destroying this country with their old ways of thinking and their closed minds, not the younger people. The Exception we had a flux of younger generation who came out and vote this past election to help remove Trump for various reason. Most young people stay out of politics, don't vote and really don't care until they are older and gain some maturity, because they don't understand and don't realize just how important being involved in such matters are. So, where are you getting this Young people crap?

Well, for one thing, as you mention, they are not voting.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Well, for one thing, as you mention, they are not voting.

Is not voting his reasoning? nope! Is the younger generation not voting the cause of it.. nope! Did he even bring up voting? Nope! I did to show him why his blame on the younger generation is bullshit! Specially since the younger generation doesn't fully understand what's at stake because they are still learning and educating themselves because most of that education comes with time and experience from adulting.

So, STFU unless you are actually paying attention to what is being said and understand the context. You are just as bad as he is about trying to pass on false manipulation as facts, try and manipulate who's at fault, and taking things out of context to manipulate it into something other than what it is pertaining to, and frankly I am not in the mood for It!