Rockstar Ceases Manufacturing Of GTA: San Andreas

[Homerboy]

skace do you have a rebuttal for me? I'm dying for it. I realize that often there is "left over code" but this "left over code" is obviously of questionable material as you yourself stated that RS probably coded it then realized that they cant possibly leave that in and expect to even get a M rating and be found on millions of shelves. So the REM'ed it out (Oh BASIC how I love thee).

But it was HIGHLY questionable material that they knew could easily be unlocked and would cause a firestorm of backlash (and publicity?) and they didn't DISCLOSE THE INFORMATION TO THE ESRB WHEN THEY SUBMITTED IT. They obviously knew that it was bad to have it, so common sense would tell them that they should have hit the <del> key and not just commented it out of the code.

 

[Homerboy]

sure you reply as Im typing

Well Im sure other companies will be affected. And they should thank RS for it. In all honesty I wouldn't mind seeing stiffer ratings or more aptly stiffer ENFORCEMENT of the ratings on games. Just as movie theaters started buckling down on letting unsupervised kids into R rated movies game stores should be just as resposible. While parents need to be the first and PRIMARY line of defense, I have NO problem with ESRB/Gov't playing the backup roll. I dont care whats in the game... ANYTHING is fair game. Thats free-speech and what helped make our country what it is today (is that good?) but what is sold and how its sold should be regulated.

 

[skace]

I can't answer that question because I don't work in the ESRB or a developer. My question would be do developers often report on inactive code and give whatif scenarios? I would assume they'd give the product to ESRB AS IS. I didn't know every developer goes in and says well if they hack xyz they can see this, and if they create a mod this could possibly happen.

Sorry, I just hit reply to this after having the window open all lunch break. It is related to your other post.

 

[Homerboy]

Point being is that this code is PAINFULLY questionably and pretty obvious to us, RS and anyone with half a brain that it would be frowned upon by ESRB and any governing body. So why even leave the code on the disk to be printed? With nothing more than a simple commenting out to "deactivate" it? Its a HUGE mistake by RS. They could ahve coded it and then removed it completely. Or coded it, left it and got the appropriate rating... the ONE THING they shouldn't have done (code it, leave it, deactivate it and not tell anyone) is what they chose to do. They blew it (or did they... I, along with countless news sources, would never be discussing this game if it wasn't for this "mistake")

+1 RS marketing.

 

[ShadowBlade]

who plays GTA for sex?
i play it for the mass ammounts of killing and torture
the only time i would ever play a game for 'sex' is fable with its dry hump button

 

[Auryg]

From the ESRB's website:

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Which do the sex scenes fall under? Definately mature. You can't say it's graphical sexual content and nudity..there's no nudity. I doesn't matter that they didn't show it to the ESRB. It was obviously just left over code that they decided they didn't want to keep in the game, but instead of wasting time trying to remove all the code they just took out the ways to access the sex scenes. The fact of the matter remains..with JUST the disk of GTA: SA you cannot access these scenes. You need some other device/hack to do it. This would be no different if someone made a patch to have Master Chief have fellatio with a grunt in Halo 2.

 

[Acanthus]

Maybe they will quit trying to raise the bar on pissing off parents and actually work on features we care about now. Like graphics and MULTIPLAYER.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Auryg
From the ESRB's website:

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Which do the sex scenes fall under? Definately mature. You can't say it's graphical sexual content and nudity..there's no nudity. I doesn't matter that they didn't show it to the ESRB. It was obviously just left over code that they decided they didn't want to keep in the game, but instead of wasting time trying to remove all the code they just took out the ways to access the sex scenes. The fact of the matter remains..with JUST the disk of GTA: SA you cannot access these scenes. You need some other device/hack to do it. This would be no different if someone made a patch to have Master Chief have fellatio with a grunt in Halo 2.

Have you seen it? i got the link from this forum [which is undoubtedly against the AT forum rules] . . . it IS rather graphic sex in multiple positions with little left to the imagination.

The POINT is the MORONS at RockStar DID leave it in THEN posted a way to hack their own game to display it. . . .
:thumbsdown:



EDIT: i AM saying that RockStar leaked this hack . . . they LIED several times trying to cover their asses - saying it was "someone else" until it was PROVEN that it was also in the xbox and PS2 games.

Wait and see 'who' gets fired at RS . . . then you'll know for sure.

 

[GizmoSan]

from Gamasutra.com

All member stores of the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association, which includes Blockbuster, GameFly, GameCrazy, KB Toys, Target, Tower Records, Toys R Us, and Wal-Mart, have removed the game. As IEMA president Hal Halpin explained, "Though not a policy, IEMA members generally do not carry AO-rated games any differently than we do not carry X-rated videos or DVDs, thus it is likely that our members will be removing all copies of the current version and re-stocking with the updated version.

Finally, GameStop Corp., of which Electronics Boutique and GameStop.com are subsidiaries, announced its decision to also pull the game.

I called EB, Gamestop and went to Blockbuster, all have removed it today. I checked Best Buy they don't carry it anymore. CompUSA does however. I have the ps2 version, but i planned on getting the xbox version. Now ebay prices are going up!

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: screw3d
I still don't see how this is Rockstar fault :| It's not like Little Johnny can "accidentally" install the mod and ask mommy what Mr CJ is doing to teh woman. I bet it's easier to find porn on google than to install the mod

id guarantee that

 

[Auryg]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Auryg
From the ESRB's website:

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Which do the sex scenes fall under? Definately mature. You can't say it's graphical sexual content and nudity..there's no nudity. I doesn't matter that they didn't show it to the ESRB. It was obviously just left over code that they decided they didn't want to keep in the game, but instead of wasting time trying to remove all the code they just took out the ways to access the sex scenes. The fact of the matter remains..with JUST the disk of GTA: SA you cannot access these scenes. You need some other device/hack to do it. This would be no different if someone made a patch to have Master Chief have fellatio with a grunt in Halo 2.

Have you seen it? i got the link from this forum [which is undoubtedly against the AT forum rules] . . . it IS rather graphic sex in multiple positions with little left to the imagination.

The POINT is the MORONS at RockStar DID leave it in THEN posted a way to hack their own game to display it. . . .
:thumbsdown:



EDIT: i AM saying that RockStar leaked this hack . . . they LIED several times trying to cover their asses - saying it was "someone else" until it was PROVEN that it was also in the xbox and PS2 games.

Wait and see 'who' gets fired at RS . . . then you'll know for sure.

Yes I've seen it. A movie I went to last night, Wedding Crashers, was a good 50x worse. There's a minute or so in there where you see about 26 (slight exaggeration but it was a ton) boobs, and some other very sexual parts, like a guy getting a handjob at the dinner table. And it's rated R, which has the same restrictions M has in videogame terms...only people 17+ can buy/watch it.


We don't know that rockstar leaked it. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? As a matter of fact, I would put money on that nobody from rockstar leaked it..somoene was probably just digging through the game's files and saw the stuff, and figured out how to access it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Auryg

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Auryg
From the ESRB's website:

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Which do the sex scenes fall under? Definately mature. You can't say it's graphical sexual content and nudity..there's no nudity. I doesn't matter that they didn't show it to the ESRB. It was obviously just left over code that they decided they didn't want to keep in the game, but instead of wasting time trying to remove all the code they just took out the ways to access the sex scenes. The fact of the matter remains..with JUST the disk of GTA: SA you cannot access these scenes. You need some other device/hack to do it. This would be no different if someone made a patch to have Master Chief have fellatio with a grunt in Halo 2.

Have you seen it? i got the link from this forum [which is undoubtedly against the AT forum rules] . . . it IS rather graphic sex in multiple positions with little left to the imagination.

The POINT is the MORONS at RockStar DID leave it in THEN posted a way to hack their own game to display it. . . .
:thumbsdown:



EDIT: i AM saying that RockStar leaked this hack . . . they LIED several times trying to cover their asses - saying it was "someone else" until it was PROVEN that it was also in the xbox and PS2 games.

Wait and see 'who' gets fired at RS . . . then you'll know for sure.

Yes I've seen it. A movie I went to last night, Wedding Crashers, was a good 50x worse. There's a minute or so in there where you see about 26 (slight exaggeration but it was a ton) boobs, and some other very sexual parts, like a guy getting a handjob at the dinner table. And it's rated R, which has the same restrictions M has in videogame terms...only people 17+ can buy/watch it.

of course there is lots "worse" . . . just goggle 'sex'.

that is NOT the point . . . RockStar created these files but evidently decided to not put them in the final game so as to get the 'M' rating . . . and stupidly - or deliberately - left them in.

Now RockStar already LIED - several times - DENYING that the files were "theirs" until it was PROVEN they were LYING.

Who cares about innocent until proven guilty? - this isn't a trial; and RockStar - now - self-admittedly is GUILTY . . .



and WHO "discovered " these files?

We don't know that rockstar leaked it. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? As a matter of fact, I would put money on that nobody from rockstar leaked it..somoene was probably just digging through the game's files and saw the stuff, and figured out how to access it.

you make it sound so easy . . . it isn't at all easy to do . . . MOST easter eggs are 'leaked' by the programmers.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Queasy
They're not stopping manufacturing of San Andreas. They're recalling existing units sitting on the shelf and they're going to put out new units without the content that allowed the "Hot Coffee" mod to be used.

Should make for some interesting ebaying.

One of these days though I wish someone in the MSM and/or a politician would say, "Hey, you know what. It's the parents responsibility to keep these kinds of games away from their children. There's a reason these things have ratings on them."

Wasn't the content already placed in the game, but not "activated" or whatever?

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you make it sound so easy . . . it isn't at all easy to do . . . MOST easter eggs are 'leaked' by the programmers.

Yep, most "EASTER EGGS" are leaked. Unfortunatly, this wasn't a goddamn easter egg. For reference, an easter egg is when you bring up an about box while holding down alt and e and pressing the up key and having a program do something undocumented. A hack has never EVER been referred to as an easter egg. Hacks are not necessarily often leaked either. Mislabeling it an easter egg and then stating that how it was probably leaked because most easter eggs are is so damned backwards.

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Wasn't the content already placed in the game, but not "activated" or whatever?

Basically, the code was there, the content was there, but it was not being called in from the game where it might have once been. IE: At one time the game was probably setup so that when you did good with a girl on a date, you went to this new game. It was probably decided after some review that this new game wasn't going to fly so they removed the call for it and in place put a call to the current setup which shows a view of the house and some noises. Someone then created a hack to call this removed content.

 

[Homerboy]

Ill say it again and again and skace will avoid it again and again.
The issue here is that they did not disclose that the content was on the disk when they submitted to ESRB.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: apoppin
you make it sound so easy . . . it isn't at all easy to do . . . MOST easter eggs are 'leaked' by the programmers.

Yep, most "EASTER EGGS" are leaked. Unfortunatly, this wasn't a goddamn easter egg. For reference, an easter egg is when you bring up an about box while holding down alt and e and pressing the up key and having a program do something undocumented. A hack has never EVER been referred to as an easter egg. Hacks are not necessarily often leaked either. Mislabeling it an easter egg and then stating that how it was probably leaked because most easter eggs are is so damned backwards.

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Wasn't the content already placed in the game, but not "activated" or whatever?

Basically, the code was there, the content was there, but it was not being called in from the game where it might have once been. IE: At one time the game was probably setup so that when you did good with a girl on a date, you went to this new game. It was probably decided after some review that this new game wasn't going to fly so they removed the call for it and in place put a call to the current setup which shows a view of the house and some noises. Someone then created a hack to call this removed content.

probably . . . probably . . . "someone"

yep . . . sure

:roll:

ANYway, it looks like there is going to be further investigation . . . so we will all know . .. soon enough.

whatEVER . . . RockStar was damned IRRESPONSIBLE to leave that scene in the game . . . especially with all the criticism ALREADY aimed at the gaming industry.

 

[Ryland]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Ill say it again and again and skace will avoid it again and again.
The issue here is that they did not disclose that the content was on the disk when they submitted to ESRB.

This gets back to the quesion of what should the ESRB be rating based upon? Should they give out a rating based upon the game as it is installed out of the box or upon things that MAY happen in the future? Most likely the "added content" was a scene which was removed at the last minute to get the M rating. If thats the case then the only viable alternative for them was to lock it out because actually removing the scene would have required a last minute full QA cycle to make sure that it didn't break anything. The scene was probably then forgotten about (its possible that the programmer who locked it had left so nobody actually knew that its content was still there).

Personally I think that the game should have been rated AO for its violent content and that the liberals need to stop whining about a "sex" scene in which everything is left to the imagination...

 

[jer0608]

I agree with Apoppin and Homerboy that leaving this content on the disk was incredibly irresponsible of Rockstar. Game developers, publishers and players are definitely going to suffer for this.

That being said, if we neglect the political ramifications, I do not believe RS was wrong in not disclosing this to the ESRB. The ESRB rating should apply to the game AS SOLD. The fact remains that accessing this additional content requires use of an unauthorized mod and violation of the EULA. The "feature" is nonfunctional in the retail product and should not be considered in its regulation.

An analogous situation: should car manufacturers be liable when someone violates emissions regulations by replacing/reprogramming a chip in the ECU? After all this is just a third party mod to access capability already present. Do we differentiate between the two scenarios because one is software while the other involves a hardware/firmware mod? Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

 

[Homerboy]

There is a slight differnce between games and movies that many people overlook too. In a movie you are nothing but an observer of the situtaion in front you. In games you are a participant in nearly every aspect of the word (at least in good games). YOU make the choices to let people/thing live or die. How they die or live. What they screw or ignore. This is a MUCH different pychological effect on the indivdual as they are the "person doing it".

Who here doesn't honestly feel like they could handle a M16 after firing off a billion rounds in BF2 or whatever... when in reality they would pull the trigger, get knocked on their arse and end up spraying bullets all over. Playing games lets the person immerse themselves in a fanatasy world, but, whether they know it or not, they take a small piece of that fantasy back with them to reality.

I'm not for regulating games or ANYTHING as to not allow sex guns or violence. But I do feel that these games need to be taken seriously and not just tossing around "I can do what I want its a free country" as an excuse. Every effort, as like with ultra-violent movies and XXX movies, should be made to keep M/AO games out of kids hands. Many soccer moms wouldn't let their kids go see a "R" rated movie nowadays without previously viewing it themselves to check content... yet COUNTLESS kids run around asking for GTA and ManHunter and getting wrapped up under the CHristmas tree from Santa.

While most political tools just will use this as a stepping stone in the quickly-becoming ultra-conservative politcal climate we have, maybe, just freakign MAYBE parents will freaking open their eyes and actually take notice as to what their kids are playing on their PS2s

(apparentl I'm feeling conservative today)

Interesting point on the violation of EULA jer0608. I didn't think of that... can I change my "RS was wrong" to "RS was stupid as hell (unless this was an evil marketing ploy... in which case it was brilliant)"?

 

[M00T]

It's a D4MN shame that a biological function such as sex has been associated with guns and violence. America needs to stop being such fvckin prudes. Politicians need to address real issues such as dwindling fuel supplies, famine, and the utter lack of world peace. Not to turn this into a religious debate, but that's the only thing I can see as the cause of so many problems. I don't know much about political agendas, but politics has become the very opposite of an enlightened institution.

Screw them all.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Ill say it again and again and skace will avoid it again and again.
The issue here is that they did not disclose that the content was on the disk when they submitted to ESRB.

Avoid it WTF? I acknowledged it in my friggen post!

From the post you just freaking replied to! (Seriously, is this some kind of joke?):
Basically, the code was there, the content was there, but it was not being called in from the game where it might have once been.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Ryland
Most likely the "added content" was a scene which was removed at the last minute to get the M rating. If thats the case then the only viable alternative for them was to lock it out because actually removing the scene would have required a last minute full QA cycle to make sure that it didn't break anything. The scene was probably then forgotten about (its possible that the programmer who locked it had left so nobody actually knew that its content was still there).

I agree completely.

Originally posted by: jer0608That being said, if we neglect the political ramifications, I do not believe RS was wrong in not disclosing this to the ESRB. The ESRB rating should apply to the game AS SOLD. The fact remains that accessing this additional content requires use of an unauthorized mod and violation of the EULA. The "feature" is nonfunctional in the retail product and should not be considered in its regulation.

I agree with this also.

These 2 quotes are exactly what I've been talking about from page 1 of this thread. I'm glad someone agrees. On another note, www.pennyarcade.com has some good info that I agree with in regards to the decision to give it an AO rating:

[In regards to AO vs MA] "This can't seriously be their distinction. The scenes are longer? I played Resident Evil 4 nearly 26 hours, all told. I'm going to say that maybe nineteen hours of it was spent looking down the iron sights at humanoids. The reality is that once a person is 18, a violent videogame is fairly minor in the spectrum of "adult" content available to that person. Looking over my collection, if the duration of the violence is the distinguishing factor, I'm trying to figure out what purpose Mature serves other than to remove the stigma from otherwise "adult" content and grease the wheels at retail."

The entire post is right in the news section at pennyarcade.com. The post argues on not why or why not the game should be AO vs MA, but instead, what the hell is the difference?.

 

[Oyeve]

I blame the parents. They should be monitoring what games are played. This publicity will ensure more sales. Not by the Politically Correct stores like Wal-Fart, but some way or another more copies will be sold. I personally dont see how the Hot Coffee hack affects the game. Actually I took off the hack because the stupid mini game was lame. With all the killing, shooting, blood and gore and they are concerned more about sex, which is natural, than anything else. Damn liberal/democrats. No wonder they control nothing in government. Long live GTA!!!!!

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Maybe they will quit trying to raise the bar on pissing off parents and actually work on features we care about now. Like graphics and MULTIPLAYER.

:thumbsup:

 

[Elcs]

I find the situation rather funny.

The GTA development team musta got bored when making the game.