Robert McNamara, Ex-Pentagon Chief, Dies

[13Gigatons]

The fog of war is pretty good, Generals were pretty paranoid about the Soviet Union and saw Vietnam as a way to deter them from more aggression.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dr150

Originally posted by: BoomerD
As a Marine who went to Vietnam during the Nixon years, I felt terribly betrayed when in the 90's, McNamara came out and said the war had been a mistake...a mistake that cost over 65,000 US lives many thousands more of our allies, and several hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives and the lives of their allies.

I suppose I'm glad he finally came to understand the mistake...but I can only wish that understanding had come some 30 years earlier...

I have mixed emotions about his passing...One part of me hopes he Rests in Peace...the other part of me hopes he burns in whatever hell there may be...but IMO, it'd be rather sweet justice if he ended up "on the other side" surrounded by Marines who died in Vietnam...(and I'm sure there are plenty whichever "afterlife" he gets...)

Hindsight is always 20/20 my friend.

I'm sure if he thought that way as events were developing, he would have reacted accordingly (i.e. against further action).

There were plenty of people that did think that way as the events took place and did act accordingly. There is no excusing the actions of people like McNamara who were dead wrong the entire time.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
As a Marine who went to Vietnam during the Nixon years, I felt terribly betrayed when in the 90's, McNamara came out and said the war had been a mistake...a mistake that cost over 65,000 US lives many thousands more of our allies, and several hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives and the lives of their allies.

I suppose I'm glad he finally came to understand the mistake...but I can only wish that understanding had come some 30 years earlier...

I have mixed emotions about his passing...One part of me hopes he Rests in Peace...the other part of me hopes he burns in whatever hell there may be...but IMO, it'd be rather sweet justice if he ended up "on the other side" surrounded by Marines who died in Vietnam...(and I'm sure there are plenty whichever "afterlife" he gets...)

Watch the documentary, he basically explains the whole rationale at the time and the "fog of war" concept. Basically people cannot ever fully comprehend the complexity of war and thus they will not make good decisions. Corollary to that is that no person should be in charge of a weapon that can wipe us all out.

He was a brilliant man... and by his own account and the tapes they play in the movie, LBJ was the one that pushed U.S. into that whole mess.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
The Fog of War

Watch this video. It is a very interesting documentary about his experiences in government.

Came in here to post the same thing. Definitely worth a watch.

Amazing documentary.

I remember this documentary and its haunting message of a man that I once respected and feared. I once wrote a summation about him and his life during my college years.

A lot of my friends were killed in Vietnam and I wanted to know more about the men that caused their demise. In the end I came away in awe and pity of this man.

I wish that we still had a free press that had balls enough to present this kind of story about our contemporary leaders of today. Sadly we don't and I'm again afraid that we are committing these same errors. This is like a mobius strip constantly covering the same ground with little understanding.

This is probably the saddest and most veracious thing I've read in 2009. Same decisions; same mistakes.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: BoomerD
As a Marine who went to Vietnam during the Nixon years, I felt terribly betrayed when in the 90's, McNamara came out and said the war had been a mistake...a mistake that cost over 65,000 US lives many thousands more of our allies, and several hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives and the lives of their allies.

I suppose I'm glad he finally came to understand the mistake...but I can only wish that understanding had come some 30 years earlier...

I have mixed emotions about his passing...One part of me hopes he Rests in Peace...the other part of me hopes he burns in whatever hell there may be...but IMO, it'd be rather sweet justice if he ended up "on the other side" surrounded by Marines who died in Vietnam...(and I'm sure there are plenty whichever "afterlife" he gets...)

Watch the documentary, he basically explains the whole rationale at the time and the "fog of war" concept. Basically people cannot ever fully comprehend the complexity of war and thus they will not make good decisions. Corollary to that is that no person should be in charge of a weapon that can wipe us all out.

He was a brilliant man... and by his own account and the tapes they play in the movie, LBJ was the one that pushed U.S. into that whole mess.

Hmmm, I need to hook my speakers and watch.

 

[zerocool1]

I was listening to an interview with Errol Morris (director of Fog of War) about the death of McNamara. McNamara felt the nuclear bomb wasn't going to be used and was for nuclear disarmament. Also the doctrine of stopping the spread of communism was in direct contrast with the ideas of appeasement prior to the beginning of WWII.

 

[Barfo]

see ya

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: BoomerD
As a Marine who went to Vietnam during the Nixon years, I felt terribly betrayed when in the 90's, McNamara came out and said the war had been a mistake...a mistake that cost over 65,000 US lives many thousands more of our allies, and several hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives and the lives of their allies.

I suppose I'm glad he finally came to understand the mistake...but I can only wish that understanding had come some 30 years earlier...

I have mixed emotions about his passing...One part of me hopes he Rests in Peace...the other part of me hopes he burns in whatever hell there may be...but IMO, it'd be rather sweet justice if he ended up "on the other side" surrounded by Marines who died in Vietnam...(and I'm sure there are plenty whichever "afterlife" he gets...)

Watch the documentary, he basically explains the whole rationale at the time and the "fog of war" concept. Basically people cannot ever fully comprehend the complexity of war and thus they will not make good decisions. Corollary to that is that no person should be in charge of a weapon that can wipe us all out.

He was a brilliant man... and by his own account and the tapes they play in the movie, LBJ was the one that pushed U.S. into that whole mess.

Hmmm, I need to hook my speakers and watch.

Indeed! It is a really fascinating and electrifying film. I give the old man props for really confronting his decisions, and offering his lessons freely. Not many can admit such errors so openly and directly, particularly coming from such power and high government office. Most of those types simply stonewall or play politics until they die, never admitting failure or errors in judgment. McNamara's whole emphasis is that being sorry isn't going to help anyone, but that if we learn the lessons and learn them well, we don't have to make them again.

 

[rh71]

anyone else getting tired of seeing all these random people died threads? Is this some new internet fad because of all the recent coincidences? People die, we get it.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: rh71
anyone else getting tired of seeing all these random people died threads? Is this some new internet fad because of all the recent coincidences? People die, we get it.

??

This is not random, RSM was one of the most important figures in the 20th century, and one of the *very* few who would go on to be so frank and open about the inner workings of the halls of power, and the reasoning and repercussions of his decisions there.