Road Rage much?

[skace]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Ok, your right, my natural instinct would be to hold on and get into a more dangerous situation :roll:

You are hanging from a cliff, what is your natural instinct?

Natural instinct is to do whatever prevents perceived IMMEDIATE threat (and doesn't always save your life because of that). His immediate threat at that time (assuming he was in any sort of right state of mind) was falling off the car. The unforseen threat, was the tree and the mailbox and all the fucking shit the guy decided to drive him into.

 

[maziwanka]

you would think a guy that smart wouldn't do something this stupid.

also, i hope the ppl who took videos (if there were ppl) didn't just watch and do nothing.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
you would think a guy that smart wouldn't do something this stupid.

also, i hope the ppl who took videos (if there were ppl) didn't just watch and do nothing.

Surveillance camera footages. I am not sure any pedestrian shot videos surfaced yet. There were plenty of witnesses around though.

Apparently the cyclist was pulled over by the police and lectured an hour before this happened. Might have put the cyclist in a bad mood, making it easier to escalate a stupid minor collision into death.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PingSpike
So you're saying that if some one rearends you in your car its a good idea to get out and start kicking their car and acting aggressive then? Honestly, it just sounds like the guy was scared and tried to drive off when the cyclist started going apeshit on him, but the cyclist hadn't finished with him so he decided to grab the moving vehicle and not let go of it.

:roll: Way to try to put words in my mouth.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if you get into an accident you get out of your car and you exchange information with the person you hit. You don't try to drive off. Sounds to me like both of them escalated this situation but that doesn't warrant killing someone and it sure as fuck doesn't warrant letting the motorist off the hook for killing someone.

My question was, if after an accident some one started reaching into your car in aggressive manner would you not drive off? You're assuming he just drove off to try and hit and run and the cyclist tried to stop him. It seems just as likely (based on a witness account from this thread) that he was approaching him aggressively and reached into his car, prompting him to try and drive away from the situation. From there, I'd imagine both paniced. The driver was trying to escape the guy and sped up making the situation more dangerous (one witness claimed the driver screamed at him to let go) and the cyclist held on while the situation got more dangerous either because he was red faced angry or he simply panic clung to the car.

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Ok, your right, my natural instinct would be to hold on and get into a more dangerous situation :roll:

You are hanging from a cliff, what is your natural instinct?

Natural instinct is to do whatever prevents perceived IMMEDIATE threat (and doesn't always save your life because of that). His immediate threat at that time (assuming he was in any sort of right state of mind) was falling off the car. The unforseen threat, was the tree and the mailbox and all the fucking shit the guy decided to drive him into.

I still don't understand why he would hold onto teh car in the first place....

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PingSpike
So you're saying that if some one rearends you in your car its a good idea to get out and start kicking their car and acting aggressive then? Honestly, it just sounds like the guy was scared and tried to drive off when the cyclist started going apeshit on him, but the cyclist hadn't finished with him so he decided to grab the moving vehicle and not let go of it.

:roll: Way to try to put words in my mouth.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if you get into an accident you get out of your car and you exchange information with the person you hit. You don't try to drive off. Sounds to me like both of them escalated this situation but that doesn't warrant killing someone and it sure as fuck doesn't warrant letting the motorist off the hook for killing someone.

And just what if the cyclist in question threatened to severely beat / kill the driver of the car, and the driver happened to be in a convertible with the top down making him an even easier target? Would you still expect him to just sit there and try to calmly "exchange information"?

Shit doesn't escalate to that level that quickly if you are a reasonable person. It just doesn't. Not with a guy in spandex just trying to do his job and not in a situation where some motorist was just being fucking clueless. This guy is no innocent lamb who was about to be slaughtered by a skinny guy in tights. There was probably a whole lot of escalation by both of them but none of that warrants what the jackass in the cage did.

Go try and sell that shit somewhere else, because I'm not fucking buying it. :|

We still don't know what happened, but I really want to know what you think the driver should have done IF the cyclist and threatened to severely beat or kill the driver. You're just avoiding the question. It is entierly reasonable to think that might have happened. What if the driver was 'the straw that broke the camels back'? What if the bike messenger dude was cut off just one too many times and did go nuts? If he was a messenger he probably had a bag or something on him, what if he had a knife and was in the drivers face with it? What if what if what if?
I can see the incident playing out in many ways, why is it so hard for any of you cyclists to see it possibly be anything other than the "cagers" fault? Are you that stubborn? Give me a break, we don't have all the facts, but you just don't want to even think the guy on the bike could have done anything wrong. If the driver is to be at 100% fault, then yes he should be jailed and I DO see that as the most likely explanation, but I'm not so narrow sighted as to think it's the ONLY possibility.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
I still don't understand why he would hold onto teh car in the first place....

We could ask him if the guy in the car hadn't killed him.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: yllus
The cyclist (allegedly) continuing to hold on to the car instead of letting go when the speed picked up a little is where I place the most blame for this: He's in a steel box that weighs a couple of tons, you're on a flimsy bike. Your self-preservation alarm isn't going off like crazy when he floors it? Let go!

I don't believe you're thinking this through thoroughly enough: Cyclist is hanging on, driver suddenly floors it. By the time the cyclist can react to this, the car is already at 30-40mph and accelerating fast. The hard, hard pavement is whipping by, and the cyclist is not a prepared and protected stunt man in a Hollywood movie, so his very first survival instinct is to hold the fuck on.

Speed increases, all this in a matter of seconds (even a relatively slow car can get to 60 in under 10 seconds) et voila, the cyclist no longer has a good choice to make.

Natural Instinct is to hang on? I'd say it's more to let go...

Not if you don't get a full chance to react because you're yelling at the driver until, in 3 seconds or so, you're already @ 30-40 mph.

THIS is my main complaint with many of the posts from the "hot house flower virgins" of ATOT -- they pass judgment on real life situations that can unfold hella quickly from the calm and safety of their latte stained laptops.

Ok, your right, my natural instinct would be to hold on and get into a more dangerous situation :roll:

We're talking immediate INSTINCT in a 3 second window, not the considered reflections of your obviously big brain as you switch between your porn collection and OT in the safety and comfort and repose of your step-mother's basement. :roll:

 

[LTC8K6]

Haven't we seen videos of people in this situation?

IIRC, they hang on instinctively.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm also seeing the other side. That this cyclist was trying to attack the driver and the driver just panicked in self defense. I had some guy open my car door once to go after me and I just instinctively punched it, went the wrong way down a one way street, just trying to get out of there.

I'll wait for more details before passing any judgment. It could go either way.

I realize it was instinctive, but why would you put other people in danger rather than just punch they guy? The worst that can happen is you might take a couple shots, but it's certainly better than killing some bystanders.

We have aggressive bikers in Portland, but our drivers are at least equally aggressive. There have been far more cases of drivers using their cars as weapons than bikes. People like that really should be in jail.

Fight or flight. It's not something most people can control. Something is going to happen. His natural reaction was to get away from the danger instead of get into a fight on the road. If you are in a car with seatbelt on, your dead meat.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I don't think we know enough to draw any definitive judgments, but on its face this sounds to me like road rage and vehicular homicide. I simply don't find it credible that this cyclist posed such a significant danger that it could possibly have justified Mr. Bryant's actions. No doubt the cyclist, had he lived to regret his actions in this case, would wish he'd just let go of the car much sooner, but he didn't. His decision to hang on to a careening car cannot excuse Mr. Bryant's own decision to drive so recklessly with someone hanging onto his car.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PingSpike
So you're saying that if some one rearends you in your car its a good idea to get out and start kicking their car and acting aggressive then? Honestly, it just sounds like the guy was scared and tried to drive off when the cyclist started going apeshit on him, but the cyclist hadn't finished with him so he decided to grab the moving vehicle and not let go of it.

:roll: Way to try to put words in my mouth.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if you get into an accident you get out of your car and you exchange information with the person you hit. You don't try to drive off. Sounds to me like both of them escalated this situation but that doesn't warrant killing someone and it sure as fuck doesn't warrant letting the motorist off the hook for killing someone.

And just what if the cyclist in question threatened to severely beat / kill the driver of the car, and the driver happened to be in a convertible with the top down making him an even easier target? Would you still expect him to just sit there and try to calmly "exchange information"?

Shit doesn't escalate to that level that quickly if you are a reasonable person. It just doesn't. Not with a guy in spandex just trying to do his job and not in a situation where some motorist was just being fucking clueless. This guy is no innocent lamb who was about to be slaughtered by a skinny guy in tights. There was probably a whole lot of escalation by both of them but none of that warrants what the jackass in the cage did.

Go try and sell that shit somewhere else, because I'm not fucking buying it. :|

We still don't know what happened, but I really want to know what you think the driver should have done IF the cyclist and threatened to severely beat or kill the driver. You're just avoiding the question. It is entierly reasonable to think that might have happened. What if the driver was 'the straw that broke the camels back'? What if the bike messenger dude was cut off just one too many times and did go nuts? If he was a messenger he probably had a bag or something on him, what if he had a knife and was in the drivers face with it? What if what if what if?
I can see the incident playing out in many ways, why is it so hard for any of you cyclists to see it possibly be anything other than the "cagers" fault? Are you that stubborn? Give me a break, we don't have all the facts, but you just don't want to even think the guy on the bike could have done anything wrong. If the driver is to be at 100% fault, then yes he should be jailed and I DO see that as the most likely explanation, but I'm not so narrow sighted as to think it's the ONLY possibility.

It's a stupid question. You said it yourself, we don't know what was said between the two so why should I comment on a bunch of hypothetical situations.

Apparently the Police decided there was enough evidence that the motorist did not react in a reasonable manner so they arrested him and I just checked the news on this and he is being charged.

Michael Bryant was yesterday afternoon charged with criminal negligence causing death and dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death.

He was released with conditions and is slated to appear in court on Oct. 19.

"We have enough information to substantiate the charges," in the accident that caused the death of Mr. Sheppard, said Toronto Police Traffic Services Sgt. Tim Burrows.

Sgt. Burrows said many witnesses had come forward and video from personal handheld devices and security footage had assisted in the investigation.

Late Tuesday night, police released further information about Monday night's events. "We can confirm that he was investigated by police prior to the incident," said Staff Sgt. John Spanton. "He had been drinking, but was not intoxicated. He went on his way, presumably on his way home.

 

[ManyBeers]

Let's not forget the fact that Bryant had is wife with him in the car.

 

[nutxo]

LOL

pitbulls kill 0

Bryant kills 1

Lets ban white men.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: manowar821
Holy shit there are a ton of morons in here.

This is standard for ATOT. The only group loathed more than fatties are cyclists. Good thing there aren't any fat cyclists. That would be like Pol Pot, Stalin, and Hitler all rolled into one to these clowns.

why the hate on cyclists?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: manowar821
Holy shit there are a ton of morons in here.

This is standard for ATOT. The only group loathed more than fatties are cyclists. Good thing there aren't any fat cyclists. That would be like Pol Pot, Stalin, and Hitler all rolled into one to these clowns.

why the hate on cyclists?

They scratch my paint whereas the mess from pedestrians washes right off.

 

[Yreka]

I thought Canada was very tolerant of cyclists. Don't they let them get married and everything ?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Yreka
I thought Canada was very tolerant of cyclists. Don't they let them get married and everything ?

:laugh:

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: yllus
The cyclist (allegedly) continuing to hold on to the car instead of letting go when the speed picked up a little is where I place the most blame for this: He's in a steel box that weighs a couple of tons, you're on a flimsy bike. Your self-preservation alarm isn't going off like crazy when he floors it? Let go!

I don't believe you're thinking this through thoroughly enough: Cyclist is hanging on, driver suddenly floors it. By the time the cyclist can react to this, the car is already at 30-40mph and accelerating fast. The hard, hard pavement is whipping by, and the cyclist is not a prepared and protected stunt man in a Hollywood movie, so his very first survival instinct is to hold the fuck on.

Speed increases, all this in a matter of seconds (even a relatively slow car can get to 60 in under 10 seconds) et voila, the cyclist no longer has a good choice to make.

Natural Instinct is to hang on? I'd say it's more to let go...

Not if you don't get a full chance to react because you're yelling at the driver until, in 3 seconds or so, you're already @ 30-40 mph.

THIS is my main complaint with many of the posts from the "hot house flower virgins" of ATOT -- they pass judgment on real life situations that can unfold hella quickly from the calm and safety of their latte stained laptops.

Ok, your right, my natural instinct would be to hold on and get into a more dangerous situation :roll:

We're talking immediate INSTINCT in a 3 second window, not the considered reflections of your obviously big brain as you switch between your porn collection and OT in the safety and comfort and repose of your step-mother's basement. :roll:

Oh no personal insults! i'm a sad panda now....

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Yreka
I thought Canada was very tolerant of cyclists. Don't they let them get married and everything ?

Cyclists we tolerate, bike couriers that are asses not so much.

We allow gay people to get married. I never understood the opposition to gay marriage, why deny them the misery?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Oh no personal insults! i'm a sad panda now....

It really wouldn't be OT without them. Besides, they're not insults if they're true.

 

[rh71]

I'd be interested to know if anyone actually lives in their parent's basement.

 

[mb]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/...3/20090903?hub=Toronto

According to police and statements from witnesses, it appears that Sheppard was cycling westbound on Toronto's Bloor Street near Bay Street when he had a minor collision with Bryant's black Saab convertible.

Though unhurt, Sheppard, was reportedly angry and slammed his bag down on the car's hood.

Bryant, who was with his wife at the time, pulled away and was chased on foot by Sheppard, who grabbed the side of the vehicle.

The car then veered erratically into oncoming traffic. It partially mounted the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street, and Sheppard struck a mailbox and let go of the vehicle.

It has emerged that Sheppard, 33, was involved in a confrontation with his ex-girlfriend less than an hour before the incident, and that police were called to her residence to deal with the disturbance.

Sheppard was escorted by police away from the property, and there were indications that he had been drinking. About an hour later he was involved in the deadly confrontation.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1957296

Police confirmed last night that they are sifting through video surveillance footage to determine the accuracy of witness accounts that Darcy Allan Sheppard and Mr. Bryant were struggling for control of the wheel of Mr. Bryant's car and that Mr. Sheppard was trying to wrestle Mr. Bryant into a headlock.

Wow, Jules, it sounds exactly like the "stupid" scenario that I described earlier, except it turns out he was drunk.

 

[Baked]

Finally, we have the truth. Ban cyclists, they're all bad.

 

[PingSpike]

The only question remains: Will the Anandtech Cyclist Legion vanish from this thread entirely or cling to some comparatively minute mistake by the "cager" to justify the belligerent behavior of an apparently drunken wife beater who happened to be sitting atop a bicycle before he attempted to assault a former government official?

Well, maybe two questions...is that an awesome run on sentence in question one?