Road Rage: 7-Iron to winshield answered by hot lead, man ends up dead

[Analog]

Motorist shot and killed in road rage incident, police say

September 16, 2004, 5:14 AM

DETROIT (AP) -- An angry motorist was shot and killed by an off-duty state corrections officer in what police called a road rage incident.

The shooting occurred Wednesday after the motorist attacked the corrections officer's pickup truck and then went after the officer with a seven-iron golf club, Detroit Police Insp. Bill Rice told The Detroit News for a Thursday story.

Rice identified the dead man as Paul Anderson, 36, of Detroit.

The incident began after the pickup pulled off Michigan 10 onto a service drive, Rice said.

Anderson pulled his car up behind the pickup and began honking the horn and yelling at the driver of the truck to stop, police said.

The driver, a 39-year-old Detroit man, pulled over. At that point, Anderson jumped out of his car with a golf club and started beating on the pickup truck, Rice said.

Two women in Anderson's car also grabbed a steel steering column locking device from the car and started beating on the pickup truck while the corrections officer remained inside.

Anderson broke the pickup's passenger side window with the golf club. He then hit the driver of the car on the arm with the golf club and attempted to pull him out of the pickup, Rice said.

The corrections officer pulled out his state issued handgun and fired one shot, striking Anderson in the head, killing him, Rice said.

The corrections officer was questioned and released pending investigation.

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[Red Dawn]

Hey man, nice shot!

 

[Orsorum]

One less idiot on the road. I wonder what will happen to the two women.

 

[lancestorm]

Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: lancestorm
Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

It doesn't matter,nothing he could have done justified them assualting him with the intent to do bodily harm.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: lancestorm
Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

Which means what to the story, exactly? Did the corrections officer assault this man? Did he put him in a position where the offender just HAD to follow him off the freeway and physically assault him?

 

[lancestorm]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: lancestorm
Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

Which means what to the story, exactly? Did the corrections officer assault this man? Did he put him in a position where the offender just HAD to follow him off the freeway and physically assault him?

I don't know. Were you there? 😀

I'm just trying to state the point that we don't have the full story. Although it is very true that there's nothing that the officer guy could have done besides killing someone that should have induced that much rage.

 

[edro]

If you have the balls to take a golf club to a man's truck, then try to pull him out of the truck, you deserve to be neutered... in this case, he was.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: lancestorm

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: lancestorm
Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

Which means what to the story, exactly? Did the corrections officer assault this man? Did he put him in a position where the offender just HAD to follow him off the freeway and physically assault him?

I don't know. Were you there? 😀

Were you? I'm asking you what the corrections officer might have done to provoke such a violent response, as your post implied culpability on his part.

Ah. It's early morning, and I'm more caustic than usual.

Regardless, the idiot got his. Good for the corrections officer.

 

[Insane3D]

First question.....Why pull over?

Second question... Once you pull over, and three people get out and start whaling on your truck, why not just drive away?

Third question....The guy had a golf club...why not just flash your gun or fire a warning shot? Or even if you shoot him, why the head? Seems excessive to me, but I wasn't there.

It seems like the whole thing could have been avoided if he never pulled over, or just drove off when they started messing with his truck and called the cops.

*shrug*

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
First question.....Why pull over?

Second question... Once you pull over, and three people get out and start whaling on your truck, why not just drive away?

Third question....The guy had a golf club...why not just flash your gun or fire a warning shot? Or even if you shoot him, why the head? Seems excessive to me, but I wasn't there.

It seems like the whole thing could have been avoided if he never pulled over, or just drove off when they started messing with his truck and called the cops.

*shrug*

Where would he fire a warning shot? (I'm not a cop, but it doesn't seem like a good thing to fire shots anywhere but at a definitive target)

 

[m2kewl]

man, that guy had some patience sitting in the pickup while the tools banged it up...

that fvcker got served...gene pool got cleaned

 

[Insane3D]

True I guess. It just seems to me, in a altercation like that, once a gun was flashed, the guy would probably calm down quick. Again, I wasn't there. The officer was in a vehicle, and the attacker had a golf club. It's probably justified I guess, but it seems like the whole thing didn't need to end up that way. I still don't understand why he pulled over, sat there in his vehicle while they attacked his truck, then once it escalated, he shot the guy in the head. Something just seems strange to me.

Try to imagine yourself in that position...would you pull over? Would you sit there while three people attacked your truck?

Edit:

As for the warning shot, now that I think about it, that's really not an option since he is in a vehicle...unless he wanted to put a hole in his roof or something...

 

[gotensan01]

Originally posted by: m2kewl
man, that guy had some patience sitting in the pickup while the tools banged it up...

that fvcker got served...gene pool got cleaned

Maybe he was just waiting to build up a defense before he could off the guy...

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
First question.....Why pull over?

Second question... Once you pull over, and three people get out and start whaling on your truck, why not just drive away?

Third question....The guy had a golf club...why not just flash your gun or fire a warning shot? Or even if you shoot him, why the head? Seems excessive to me, but I wasn't there.

It seems like the whole thing could have been avoided if he never pulled over, or just drove off when they started messing with his truck and called the cops.

*shrug*

Why pull over? There are any number of valid reasons to pull over.

"Hey dude your right rear tire is flat, thought you'd like to know."
"You're leaking gas."
"Your kid tossed your wallet out the window a mile back, want it back?"

I've had all three happen.

Driving away just creates a chase situation.

As for "flash(ing) your gun or fir(ing) a warning shot..." Have you ever used a gun? Ever carried one?

As for shooting him in the head, in close quarters it was probably chance that he hit him there. It's very doubtful that he was shooting for the head, center of mass is a MUCH better chance (especially under pressure).

As a CHL holder, my vote goes for "Nice shooting."

Viper GTS

 

[Biggerhammer]

I'd say the warning shot to the forehead is the right way here. Otherwise, you've got three armed perps who might very well continue trying to kill you.

As others have stated, we don't know the whole story. But nothing that the bull could do on the road deserves a 7-iron. The late road-ragista might well have had a legitimate gripe that could get the corrctions guy a ticket, but smashing his truck and trying to smash the driver is what I would consider justification for deadly force.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Biggerhammer
I'd say the warning shot to the forehead is the right way here. Otherwise, you've got three armed perps who might very well continue trying to kill you.

As others have stated, we don't know the whole story. But nothing that the bull could do on the road deserves a 7-iron. The late road-ragista might well have had a legitimate gripe that could get the corrctions guy a ticket, but smashing his truck and trying to smash the driver is what I would consider justification for deadly force.

Right...but why sit there? Why pull over in the first place? I mean he pulled over...sat there...the guy got a club and started hitting his truck. Then the women got a club and started too. Then the guy smashed his window and tried to get him. I have to believe he could have driven off at some point.

Doesn't this situation sound a bit strange to anyone else?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
True I guess. It just seems to me, in a altercation like that, once a gun was flashed, the guy would probably calm down quick. Again, I wasn't there. The officer was in a vehicle, and the attacker had a golf club. It's probably justified I guess, but it seems like the whole thing didn't need to end up that way. I still don't understand why he pulled over, sat there in his vehicle while they attacked his truck, then once it escalated, he shot the guy in the head. Something just seems strange to me.

Try to imagine yourself in that position...would you pull over? Would you sit there while three people attacked your truck?

Edit:

As for the warning shot, now that I think about it, that's really not an option since he is in a vehicle...unless he wanted to put a hole in his roof or something...

Out of his three choices I think he picked the good one.

1) Drive away (already covered that)
2) Get out of the car (Just asking to get your head beat in)
3) Stay put & hope they gain some sense & back the fvck off (most logical)

One thing anybody who carries will tell you is that you don't draw unless you're going to shoot. You don't "flash" your gun, you don't use it to intimidate people, #1 rule is that nobody knows you have it until the situation warrants lethal force.

BTW, for all those who say "Why do you need a gun?" or "If you don't feel safe you should move" - This is exactly the kind of situation that we want to be prepared for.

Viper GTS

 

[Insane3D]

So, you think it makes more sense to sit there and wait, then shoot the guy, then to not pull over at all and call the police, or drive off when it got that crazy? As for "flashing the gun", if it would have chilled out the situation, it wouldn't be warranted? I guess I don't understand the mentality. It's not like if he pulled it, and didn't fire immediately, he would have got shot.

Whatever...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
So, you think it makes more sense to sit there and wait, then shoot the guy, then to not pull over at all and call the police, or drive off when it got that crazy? As for "flashing the gun", if it would have chilled out the situation, it wouldn't be warranted. I guess I don't understand the mentality.

Whatever...

I'm getting the impression he wasn't just waiting there twiddling his thumbs; I wonder if he'd already turned the car off by the time the guy started attacking his car.

And the attacker wasn't thinking clearly, I would imagine, given the mental state one must be in to commit battery. I'm not sure flashing the gun would have had any positive effect.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Insane3D
So, you think it makes more sense to sit there and wait, then shoot the guy, then to not pull over at all and call the police, or drive off when it got that crazy? As for "flashing the gun", if it would have chilled out the situation, it wouldn't be warranted. I guess I don't understand the mentality.

Whatever...

I'm getting the impression he wasn't just waiting there twiddling his thumbs; I wonder if he'd already turned the car off by the time the guy started attacking his car.

Ok...that makes no sense. If you knew the guy was pissed and wanted to get you, why would you shut the car off? There had to be a certain amount of time that passed while they got out of their car, got the "weapons", and beat on his truck before they got to his window.

Regardless of all that...I ask again....WHY PULL OVER?

Edit:

Maybe I'm not understanding the "weapon carrier" POV? If I had a gun, I would go out of my way not to use it unless it was absolutely necessary...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Insane3D
So, you think it makes more sense to sit there and wait, then shoot the guy, then to not pull over at all and call the police, or drive off when it got that crazy? As for "flashing the gun", if it would have chilled out the situation, it wouldn't be warranted. I guess I don't understand the mentality.

Whatever...

I'm getting the impression he wasn't just waiting there twiddling his thumbs; I wonder if he'd already turned the car off by the time the guy started attacking his car.

Ok...that makes no sense. If you knew the guy was pissed and wanted to get you, why would you shut the car off? There had to be a certain amount of time that passed while they got out of their car, got the "weapons", and beat on his truck before they got to his window.

Regardless of all that...I ask again....WHY PULL OVER?

Did he know the guy was pissed? Like someone else answered earlier, most people will pull over when signaled by another driver. And if the guy got out of his car quickly with golf club in hand, it wouldn't take that much time to cross the distance between cars.

 

[Red]

I'm with Insane on this one. The corrections officer should have known better than to pull over to ANYONE besides a policer cruiser. His second mistake was sitting there while someone is pounding on your car. Even if your car is turned off, how long does it take to turn it on and hit the gas? And thirdly, pointing a .45 at someones face will surely change the tone ASAP. I don't know if anyone else has been in a situation where a gun is pulled (not shot) but the tempo changes instantly. I think both parties had lapses in judgment and someone lost their life over it.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: lancestorm
Obviously the corrections officer did SOMETHING to piss this guy off. And of course, that is left out of the story. I'm sure the 2 women can identify what the guy had done on the road.

OH there we go. Trying to justify the victim's ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. Dumbass.

Two women in Anderson's car also grabbed a steel steering column locking device from the car and started beating on the pickup truck while the corrections officer remained inside.

So that's 3 against one. He should just flash the gun ???
I feel sorry for the Corrections Officer. From the report he may have been having car problems why else would he "pull onto a service drive" ?
The other dumbass "Followed him onto it and started honking his horn and yelling"
So if my car is failing and I'm not going as fast as you want, have to cut you off (becasue you ignore my signalling) in order to get to the service drive, that's justification for you to assault me?
Something someone does on the road (short of aiming the vehicle at you) is NEVER justification for you to PULL OVER and take a weighted steel rod to them or their car. Since he had those women with him as a witness, they could have reported it to the police, filed a complaint if the transgression was truely illegal. The dead guy could have kept going himself. But to pull over and assault the guy was plain WRONG. These people needed killing.
That's what you'ld get from me.
<.40 Beretta with a CWP here, baby.

 

[Insane3D]

Anderson pulled his car up behind the pickup and began honking the horn and yelling at the driver of the truck to stop, police said.

Might that tip you off? My guess is a incident occured at some point that pissed the guy off, and odds are the guy in the truck knew that. If you weren't sure, why would you shut your motor off.

I guess it's just me.


Yeah...stupid guy messed with the wrong dude and got pwned!!!

Is that better?

And if the guy got out of his car quickly with golf club in hand, it wouldn't take that much time to cross the distance between cars.

Sorry...unless he was the flash, he would have seen him getting out of the car with the club. At that point...drive away...problem solved...