RNC condemning NSA spying (complete turnaround). Political tactic??

Oldgamer

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Jan 15, 2013
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I am thinking 2014 elections are very near, and this is all just talk and hot air in the hopes of gaining some voters. Or it is just simply more of the same "if Obama for it, we must be against it" crap. Don't get me wrong, I want to see all this NSA spying on innocent civilians to cease, but I am shaking my head at the RNC right now.

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In a jarring break from the George W. Bush era, the Republican National Committee voted Friday to adopt a resolution demanding an investigation into the National Security Agency’s spy programs.

According to the resolution, the NSA metadata program revealed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden is deemed “an invasion into the personal lives of American citizens that violates the right of free speech and association afforded by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.” In addition, “the mass collection and retention of personal data is in itself contrary to the right of privacy protected by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution.”

Titled a “Resolution To Renounce The National Security Agency’s Surveillance Program,” it was passed by a voice vote as part of a package of RNC proposals. Not a single member rose to object or call for further debate, as occurred for other resolutions.

Nevada Committeewoman Diana Orrock told msnbc over the phone that she introduced the resolution at the RNC’s summer meeting, but she wasn’t able to attract the necessary co-sponsors to advance it until now. The only major change she says she made to secure support was to drop the word “unconstitutional” from the title.

“I have to thank Edward Snowden for bringing forth the blatant trampling of our First and Fourth Amendment rights in the guise of security,” she said. “Something had to be said. Something had to be done.”

This is, to put it mildly, a new position for the Republican National Committee. When the New York Times revealed that the NSA had wiretapped American citizens without warrants in late 2005, the RNC used their 2006 winter meeting to strongly defend the program’s national security value.

“Do Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean really think that when the NSA is listening in on terrorists planning attacks on America, they need to hang up when those terrorists dial their sleeper cells inside the United States?” Ken Mehlman, then RNC chair, told the RNC gathering in his keynote speech at the time.

This time around, per Orrock’s resolution, the RNC is declaring that “unwarranted government surveillance is an intrusion on basic human rights that threatens the very foundations of a democratic society and this program represents a gross infringement of the freedom of association and the right to privacy and goes far beyond even the permissive limits set by the Patriot Act.”

The RNC’s tidal shift reflects the reality that mass surveillance looks a lot more benign when your own party’s leader is in charge of the operation. But the resolution also is a sign of the increasing influence of the libertarian wing of the party, especially supporters of Ron Paul and his son, Rand Paul, who have made government overreach in pursuit of terrorists a top issue. Both Orrock and fellow Nevada Committeeman James Smack, who presented the resolution on her behalf, supported the elder Paul’s presidential campaign.

“I think it probably does reflect the views of many of the people who really want to turn out the vote and who are viewing the world through the prism of the next election,” Stewart Baker, a former Bush-era Homeland Security official, told msnbc in an email. “It’s a widespread view among Republicans, but I think the ones that know this institution best and for whom national security is a high priority don’t share this view.”

The resolution somewhat mangles the legal debate over NSA surveillance. The PRISM program mentioned by the RNC is tasked with monitoring foreign targets or conversations where only one of the parties is in the United States. Americans’ communications are sometimes collected “incidentally” and lawmakers have accused the agency of overreaching. But the “mass acquisition of Americans’ call details” in the resolution appears to refer to the NSA’s metadata collection, which is distinct from PRISM. The two programs derive their authority from different laws.

“What they lack in mastery of the subject matter, they make up in enthusiasm,” Stephen Vladeck, a professor of law at American University, said in an e-mail. “There appears to be very little daylight between the RNC and progressive challengers of the phone records program, such as the ACLU.”

The full text of the resolution is below:

RESOLUTION TO RENOUNCE THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY’S SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM

WHEREAS, the secret surveillance program called PRISM targets, among other things, the surveillance of communications of U.S. citizens on a vast scale and monitors searching habits of virtually every American on the internet;

WHEREAS, this dragnet program is, as far as we know, the largest surveillance effort ever launched by a democratic government against its own citizens, consisting of the mass acquisition of Americans’ call details encompassing all wireless and landline subscribers of the country’s three largest phone companies*;

WHEREAS, every time an American citizen makes a phone call, the NSA gets a record of the location, the number called, the time of the call and the length of the conversation; all of which are an invasion into the personal lives of American citizens that violates the right of free speech and association afforded by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution;

WHEREAS, the mass collection and retention of personal data is in itself contrary to the right of privacy protected by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which guarantees the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, that warrants shall issue only upon probable cause, and generally prevents the American government from issuing modern-day writs of assistance;

WHEREAS, unwarranted government surveillance is an intrusion on basic human rights that threatens the very foundations of a democratic society and this program represents a gross infringement of the freedom of association and the right to privacy and goes far beyond even the permissive limits set by the Patriot Act; and

WHEREAS, Republican House Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, an author of the Patriot Act and Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee at the time of Section 215’s passage, called the Section 215 surveillance program “an abuse of that law,” writing that, “based on the scope of the released order, both the administration and the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) court are relying on an unbounded interpretation of the act that Congress never intended;” therefore be it

RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican lawmakers to enact legislation to amend Section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act, the state secrets privilege, and the FISA Amendments Act to make it clear that blanket surveillance of the Internet activity, phone records and correspondence – electronic, physical, and otherwise - of any person residing in the U.S. is prohibited by law and that violations can be reviewed in adversarial proceedings before a public court;

RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican law makers to call for a special committee to investigate, report, and reveal to the public the extent of this domestic spying and the committee should create specific recommendations for legal and regulatory reform to end unconstitutional surveillance as well as hold accountable those public officials who are found to be responsible for this unconstitutional surveillance; and

RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee calls upon Republican lawmakers to immediately take action to halt current unconstitutional surveillance programs and provide a full public accounting of the NSA’s data collection programs.

*AT&T has 107.3 million wireless customers and 31.2 million landline customers.
Verizon has 98.9 million wireless customers and 22.2 million landline customers while Sprint has 55 million customers in total.”

Link to news article
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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it probably is a trick given that they raise taxes like the Democrats do.

then the LP sucks more than ever before and the Constitution Party doesnt have chuck baldwin anymore.

anyway, rand paul could be the next president... he seems like he is favored by the Neo-Republican party, but he is pretty statist when it comes to taxes just like they all are.

i mean, fuck it all anyway, any government that has the power to tax isnt worth living under. rand paul's policies will last for 12 years, and his policies are half of his fathers... the Constitution doesnt allow for laissez-faire policies and for that the piece of shit needs to be repealed and replaced with a voluntary confederation (and not the statist piece of legislation that preceded the Constitution).
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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also, the "right to privacy" is dangerous because instead of saying the State shouldnt exist, it could mean that people may be jailed for cyber stalking other people or something like that... it doesnt acknowledge the non-aggression principle.

as for the 4th and 1st amendments, no one but the supreme court gets to decide what they mean and when they apply. if people knew the history behind the Constitution and anything about the framers, instead of acting like their interpretation mattered, then we would see that statist piece of shit legislation repealed.
 

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
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but I am shaking my head at the RNC right now.

Of course you are. :rolleyes:

I'm shaking my head at you. Stop baiting sources. It's fucking annoying and shady. Msnbc, salon, mother jones. Stand behind the shit you link, you hack.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I'm glad they've said so.

OTOH, Repubs need to acknowledge that current NSA efforts are a situation very much of their own making during the Bush years. They also need to acknowledge that it's about unintended consequences rather than the evil Obama.

Well, only if they're sincere.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,816
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Oh goody, now they give a shit. Unfortunately, R's and D's mislead, misdirect, and overall are more worried about their political power grabbing strategies than the welfare and constitutional rights of USA citizens that mere words won't satisfy. We the people demand action and results.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Oh goody, now they give a shit. Unfortunately, R's and D's mislead, misdirect, and overall are more worried about their political power grabbing strategies than the welfare and constitutional rights of USA citizens that mere words won't satisfy. We the people demand action and results.

Would that be the same way that "we" the people demanded action against the Terrarist Threat! a decade ago, creating the situation of today?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Would that be the same way that "we" the people demanded action against the Terrarist Threat! a decade ago, creating the situation of today?

That's not what I meant, even then, in my early 20's, I didn't agree with what they were doing. It seemed I was often alone in that stance as well..
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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That's not what I meant, even then, in my early 20's, I didn't agree with what they were doing. It seemed I was often alone in that stance as well..

I know that's not what you meant. History did not begin with the election of Obama, nor is it really about Obama at all. It's about overly broad Congressional authorization from a decade ago at the behest of the Bush Admin & Congressional Repubs.

If Repubs say that they didn't realize that technological advances would lead to the situation we have today, that'd be believable. If they said that they want to clarify what Congress wants from the NSA, that they might have not done the best job of that in their zeal to support the President at the time, that'd be good, too.

If they just want to Blame Obama! that'd be dishonest pandering & posturing.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,816
20,423
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I know that's not what you meant. History did not begin with the election of Obama, nor is it really about Obama at all. It's about overly broad Congressional authorization from a decade ago at the behest of the Bush Admin & Congressional Repubs.

If Repubs say that they didn't realize that technological advances would lead to the situation we have today, that'd be believable. If they said that they want to clarify what Congress wants from the NSA, that they might have not done the best job of that in their zeal to support the President at the time, that'd be good, too.

If they just want to Blame Obama! that'd be dishonest pandering & posturing.

Yea, we shall see. I try not to get my hopes up anymore, it leads to disappointment.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,031
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I'm comfortable in saying the GOP isn't worth wasting our time on, as they'll sing a different tune if they grab enough power to effect change.

They fight tooth and nail against those who truly believe in the people over government.

Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than wolves in sheep's clothing.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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It sounds good, but I do not trust them to follow through beyond a minimal token effort.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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This is just a good illustration of the republicans and democrats being two sides of the same lousy coin. They will oppose something when the other party is doing it, but then be all for it when their party is in power.

I agree 100% with the RNC's current position, but I don't have any illusion that they actually intend to fix it if they gain power.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Same old "if they be for it, we will be against it!" rhetoric. How very 1984 Ministry of Truthyism of them.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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Who cares what the motivation is? I applaud whoever stands up to it.

Because this is the kind of motivation that is based around entirely false premises.

They will latch onto any "positive" idea when their party is quickly tanking due to their current ideals and how they operate within Congress.
Problem is, either they will never follow through, regardless of how much hot air they spill over the concept, or they will quickly dump the idea and move on once it seems safe to do so.

They have no interest in truly backpedaling some of the strongest ideals - this is about "national security" and one of many ways they can keep the military industrial complex alive. Before you say, "the NSA shouldn't be considered part of the MIC", I say this: you are absolutely correct. However, the goals of the NSA itself and their "projects" are entirely within the same domain, and contractors are heavily involved with pretty much every angle of national security and defense affairs.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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You had to resort to a profane personal attack to give "weight" to your "argument?" Fail.

What argument? He supports , just about every lefty supports, what the NSA is doing under this administration. All he added was the idea that Hannity supported it when Bush was doing it. Is there ever going to be a time when you clowns don't use "but, but, but BUSH!" as an excuse for Obama's fuckups and excesses ?