Rising Property Taxes - The New ARM?

[crownjules]

Liberals and fans of big government are always on the lookout for taking more of your money. Call it a tax, a fee, an assessment, what have you, they want to take your money. Take action: vote the tax & spend crowd out - at all levels of government.

I like how you specifically enumerate liberals and yet you fail to mention that many conservatives fall in exactly the same "big government" boat. You are what's wrong with US politics. Quick to blame the other party but will overlook your own side's serious shortcomings.

 

[Modular]

Need more details.
1. Where is the house? If it's in California, no more discussion needed - California law forces newcomers to pay more in property taxes.
2. What was the old assessed value, new assessed value and purchase price?
3. Have your neighbors' assessed values changed substantially or just yours?
4. Did the tax rate change?



Er... who else can they place the burden on? Local government gets its revenue from local taxpayers. Local government's expenses don't drop when we have a recession.

I doubt everyone's taxes went up 67%; it's more likely that you were underpaying before and your taxes are now closer to what your neighbors are paying.

1. Not going to get too specific with place, but it's not CA.
2. Old assessed value was 270k, new is 209k, purchase was less than that
3. All assessed values have gone down
4. No clue, but I have talked to my neighbors, many with larger homes and their taxes are 2k less than mine.


Edit: Also, I'm not upset that I pay taxes, I'm upset that they went up by 67% when my assessed value fell by 23%. I'm upset that they went up by 67% no matter what the reason to be honest. In this day and age, the government needs to be getting smaller, not larger. I, and many other people cannot live comfortably when they can just come into my house and tell me that I owe them an extra $300+ a month for nothing.

At some point, they are going to be forcing people out of their homes and then who will they go to for the cash? They are doing the same bubble building with these taxes that the mortgage companies did with housing. What will happen when the gov't bubble bursts though?

 

[Bateluer]

Mine went up. Bought my house for ~89K, city assessed it for 71K. Property taxes go up by a third.

Tax and spend baby! Welcome to government, no matter the party.

 

[sjwaste]

It's easy. Assessments are down, so they just raise the tax rate to make up for the lost revenue!

Look at it this way, your town doesn't cost any less to run just because the value of the local real estate has dropped. Schools still have the same overhead and salaries as last year. The roads still need to be maintained. You want water, trash collection, and sidewalks.

If you don't want to pay more, get involved yourself. Try and get people elected who won't spend money on what you think is superfluous or not the role of government. If that fails, move somewhere else.

New Hampshire is a great example. No income tax, pretty low in the way of bureaucratic fees, and a part time (and nominally paid) state legislature. You can literally shop for where you want to live and have your primary burden be the property tax. Want good schools? You can pay for the privilege. Want trash pickup snow removal, etc? Pick a town that has it. But it still comes back to local services being taxed at the local level. You either have to pay up, get it changed, or move to some place that won't charge you for the things you don't want.

Next up: My cable bill is higher, but there is so much on that I don't watch. When can we get a la carte pricing?

 

[Brovane]

1. Not going to get too specific with place, but it's not CA.
2. Old assessed value was 270k, new is 209k, purchase was less than that
3. All assessed values have gone down
4. No clue, but I have talked to my neighbors, many with larger homes and their taxes are 2k less than mine.


Edit: Also, I'm not upset that I pay taxes, I'm upset that they went up by 67% when my assessed value fell by 23%. I'm upset that they went up by 67% no matter what the reason to be honest. In this day and age, the government needs to be getting smaller, not larger. I, and many other people cannot live comfortably when they can just come into my house and tell me that I owe them an extra $300+ a month for nothing.

At some point, they are going to be forcing people out of their homes and then who will they go to for the cash? They are doing the same bubble building with these taxes that the mortgage companies did with housing. What will happen when the gov't bubble bursts though?

I live in CA so I can only speak to what I know. The amount of Property tax is based on on a % of the homes assessed value. So in my case it is a little over 1%. However by Prop 13 the value is locked down as to how much the assessed value of the house can increase each year. So from what you are stating your assessed value of your house went down but your overall property taxes you pay went up. I would think that this would mean the tax rate for the % of the assessed value of home went up considerably. I know my Property tax bill spells out exactly how much with the multiplier etc so I know exactly how my bill was added up. Either that or you are in a special assessment district which can also take on property taxes. Do you have a copy of last years that you can compare to this years? I would think that the bill would have more on it than just what you owe and the assessed value of the home.

 

[Bignate603]

make public schools charge a tuition and watch your property taxes drop 50% or more.

Sure, that sounds great! Maybe we should go and ask everybody to pay back the tuition they would have been charged when they went to school, plus interest!

I love how people here almost all went to school on the taxpayer's dime but now suddenly think that parents should be stuck with the cost.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Liberals and fans of big government are always on the lookout for taking more of your money. Call it a tax, a fee, an assessment, what have you, they want to take your money. Take action: vote the tax & spend crowd out - at all levels of government.

Republican governors who are unwilling to raise income taxes to balance their states' budgets have caused an increase in property taxes. They balance their budgets by cutting funding for local government aid, and local governments are then required to jack up property taxes to make up the difference.

Republicans may talk about responsible government, but they're not really any better than Democrats when it comes to controlling spending. They will usually single out a few really minor areas and blame them for causing deficits, even if they only make up 1% of the budget. Meanwhile they ignore the cash cow parts of government just as much as the Democrats. At least Democrats are slightly less dishonest about things. Republicans, meanwhile, are hypocritical; they claim to not want to raise taxes yet the things they do directly lead to people being stuck paying more tax money. But since it's not state income tax money, it's okay.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Republican governors who are unwilling to raise income taxes to balance their states' budgets have caused an increase in property taxes. They balance their budgets by cutting funding for local government aid, and local governments are then required to jack up property taxes to make up the difference.

Republicans may talk about responsible government, but they're not really any better than Democrats when it comes to controlling spending. They will usually single out a few really minor areas and blame them for causing deficits, even if they only make up 1% of the budget. Meanwhile they ignore the cash cow parts of government just as much as the Democrats. At least Democrats are slightly less dishonest about things. Republicans, meanwhile, are hypocritical; they claim to not want to raise taxes yet the things they do directly lead to people being stuck paying more tax money. But since it's not state income tax money, it's okay.

Well if you want to play that game, then the Democrats in charge of cities, (like Dallas) won't cut any of their funding for social services.
99% of politicians are liars, cheats, scam artists and down right don't give a damn about the people they "represent"
That 1% that care get railroaded out of town by the other 99% and the people that fall for partian politics.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Yeah, I've pretty much given up any hope of anyone in government giving a shit. The changes that need to be made will never happen because neither side is willing to be realistic and they're both too concerned with a constant election cycle to make any difficult long-term decisions.

The only way I can see anything changing for the better is if our electoral system starts selecting people at random out of everyone who DOESN'T want to be a politician. Because it seems clear that anyone who DOES want power cannot use it responsibly and shouldn't be given any.

 

[marvdmartian]

Yeah, here where I live, they don't bother raising the tax rate....they just over-value your house, so you pay more, then brag on how they haven't raised the property tax rate in X number of years!

The sad part is that my latest statement from my mortgage company jacked my monthly payment up by ~$70. Why? Because even though they knew what the tax rates were here, and they knew how much my insurance was going to be, and even though I pre-paid some of it in my closing costs, they still barely had enough in my escrow account to pay them. I consider this to be wholly the fault of the bank, but know that fighting it will likely be a losing battle (and honestly, I'd been paying more in every month than the new amount they're telling me to pay, so it won't hurt me any).

What's going to be interesting is when they get the tax bill next January, and realize they have WAY more money than they needed. Why? Now that I've been in the house for a year (at the end of this month), I qualify under Texas law for homesteading, which knocks my tax bill down 10%, or roughly $250/year less in taxes. While the bank in California (B of A) believes they'll have a cushion of X amount, it's going to be that, plus ~$250.....and I wonder whether they'll drop my escrow payment once they realize that??

 

[Modular]

Republican governors who are unwilling to raise income taxes to balance their states' budgets have caused an increase in property taxes. They balance their budgets by cutting funding for local government aid, and local governments are then required to jack up property taxes to make up the difference.

Republicans may talk about responsible government, but they're not really any better than Democrats when it comes to controlling spending. They will usually single out a few really minor areas and blame them for causing deficits, even if they only make up 1% of the budget. Meanwhile they ignore the cash cow parts of government just as much as the Democrats. At least Democrats are slightly less dishonest about things. Republicans, meanwhile, are hypocritical; they claim to not want to raise taxes yet the things they do directly lead to people being stuck paying more tax money. But since it's not state income tax money, it's okay.

Oh my friend, this isn't a R v D issue. It's an issue of government in general. I sometimes think that they make it R v D issues just so we miss out on the real point. They're both raking us over the coals and there's no real change.

As a household, my wife and I drive older, paid off cars, pay all our bills on time, have no credit card debt, paid our way through school with loans that we make regular, timely payments on. In the end, I am responsible as all heck, why shouldn't government be the same way?

 

[mpo]

1. Not going to get too specific with place, but it's not CA.
2. Old assessed value was 270k, new is 209k, purchase was less than that
3. All assessed values have gone down
4. No clue, but I have talked to my neighbors, many with larger homes and their taxes are 2k less than mine.

If you live in Michigan, you need to look up Proposal A. Proposal A capped the rate at which property values can go up. If a house is sold, the taxable value of the house is uncapped.

If the previous owner was in the house for a long time, it is quite possible that your taxes went up that much even in a declining market.

 

[BoomerD]

CA at least has Prop. 13.

Ha! for now...

I shudder to think what will happen if they repeal Prop. 13.

Skyrocketing property taxes drove many retired folks from their homes before Prop 13...which was a major part of the impetus behind Prop. 13.

I wouldn't object to seeing the business/corporate part of it fixed though. Too many loopholes that businesses and corporations manage to dance through and avoid the increase in taxes.

With property values already in the shitter here, repealing Prop. 13 will cause many people to just walk away from their mortgages...Lots of people (myself included) already owe more for our houses than they're worth on the market...if the taxes go sky high...folks are going to walk.

 

[Zebo]

I live in CA so I can only speak to what I know. The amount of Property tax is based on on a % of the homes assessed value. So in my case it is a little over 1%. However by Prop 13 the value is locked down as to how much the assessed value of the house can increase each year. So from what you are stating your assessed value of your house went down but your overall property taxes you pay went up. I would think that this would mean the tax rate for the % of the assessed value of home went up considerably. I know my Property tax bill spells out exactly how much with the multiplier etc so I know exactly how my bill was added up. Either that or you are in a special assessment district which can also take on property taxes. Do you have a copy of last years that you can compare to this years? I would think that the bill would have more on it than just what you owe and the assessed value of the home.

I don't think it can ever go up from day you buy. My parents live in the same house since 1966 in costa mesa and pay like $400 their friends next door pay $600 while some who bought in 2000s pay multiple thousands. One big reason they never move I think. Plus it's paid for.

 

[BoomerD]

I don't think it can ever go up from day you buy. My parents live in the same house since 1966 in costa mesa and pay like $400 their friends next door pay $600 while some who bought in 2000s pay multiple thousands. One big reason they never move I think. Plus it's paid for.

No, even with Prop 13, your taxes can increase, but there are limits as to how much it can increase annually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)
"The most significant portion of the act is the first paragraph, which limited the tax rate for real estate:

Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties.

The proposition decreased property taxes by assessing property values at their 1975 value and restricted annual increases of assessed value of real property to an inflation factor, not to exceed 2% per year. It also prohibited reassessment of a new base year value except for (a) change in ownership or (b) completion of new construction."

So, of course, local governments and the state government find other ways to raise revenue...fees are a heavily-favored method...as are bond measures for things like schools and roads...library taxes are pretty common as well.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I wonder whether they'll drop my escrow payment once they realize that??

Over half of escrow accounts are over paid. and BoA is very very bad at adding.

 

[Ninjahedge]

The issue with cutting government spending is that as soon as the government says what they want to cut, throngs of people come out to protest it.

SOMEONE has to be willing to sacrifice.

Cut spending on programs!!!!!


Just not on MY programs......





That is the case. Also realize that the reason most local municipalities are doing this is because the state and federal aid is being cut off. So unless you want a bunch of under-educated kids hanging out at 3:00 every day before you get home because all the after school programs were cut, stop whining about "spreading the wealth".

You also realize that good schools are one of the primary drivers in local property value, right? Maybe even more than Kitchen Rennovations! You have shitty schools in a neighborhood, you have eliminated just about any family looking for a home. Demand goes down, price goes down.


As for Spreading the wealth, just take a look at where the cash now resides. With people like Wall Street earning rtecord salaries and bonuses just two years after WE bailed them out. With TEMPORARY tax breaks for the top % being lobbied to become permanent, you should know that the "haves" are looking to keep it that way, with the largest split between the top and the middle we have seen since the pre-union days.


So, instead of focusing so local on people that can't do much about it, maybe we should start asking for more transparancy in the spending. Maybe we should know how much money is being dumped into weapons research (vs energy research). Why don't we ask why Exxon/Mobil earns more than any other company in the world (or close to it).

Or we can bitch and moan about Property Tax and ask that our Cops and Teachers get fired.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

If we must cut government and we can't agree what parts are 'essential' then they must all be. The solution, in my humble opinion, is to have 8% inflation but limit the CPI calculations to 3% (this can be done and if you call me on it I'll go in to extreme detail).

This means, essentially, that unless a service is tied to inflation it will receive an 8% cut in spending; if it is tied to inflation it will receive a 5% cut in spending AND taxes will be boosted both by taxing more $ simply because of inflation and by pushing people's income into higher brackets by a factor of 8% annually.

 

[Greenman]

I shudder to think what will happen if they repeal Prop. 13.

Skyrocketing property taxes drove many retired folks from their homes before Prop 13...which was a major part of the impetus behind Prop. 13.

I wouldn't object to seeing the business/corporate part of it fixed though. Too many loopholes that businesses and corporations manage to dance through and avoid the increase in taxes.

With property values already in the shitter here, repealing Prop. 13 will cause many people to just walk away from their mortgages...Lots of people (myself included) already owe more for our houses than they're worth on the market...if the taxes go sky high...folks are going to walk.

The state would be in hog heaven. They could piss away money by the fright train load. Maybe even build a second four hundred and fifty million dollar a foot bridge here in the bay area. We could spend vast fortunes on new schools and lots more teachers to tell our kids how special they are, while prepping them for jobs in the food service industry.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Green, just be careful about the whole teacher thing.

Republicans like to demonize them as if they are living the life of a fat-cat, but if that was the truth, there would not be a shortage of qualified instructors out there.

The keys are simple. Teachers may only have an official 180 day year and a 7 hour day, but unlike most other professions, they are also required to keep going to school themselves (summer classes) and THEY get their own homework (Making and grading tests, labs and homework).

From my mothers own experience of taking summer classes even into her 60's, from her staying up until 10-11 PM grading papers each night and getting up at 5:30 to get into work by 7am..... I can say that the flowers and sunshine view of a teacher is hogwash.

The only teachers that get that are ones that are, just like in the "real world", buddy-buddy with the department heads and Superintendants......