RIP A true American patriot and statesman, Sen. John McCain

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madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
History or not,show him a little respect ffs.

So the guy panics, drops a bomb onto the deck of a aircraft carrier, then runs off while his fellow sailors die trying to fight the fire, has his admiral father do a coverup, then writes a false self-aggrandizing version of the events in his book, and I'm supposed to respect the guy?
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,156
4,496
136
Hmmm. . . who to believe. Professor of history who has written books on the Vietnam War and is the recipient of the Binkley-Stephenson award (given annually for the best scholarly article in the Journal of American History) or Snopes. . .

You just copied what she said about herself in the article ... you have no idea who she is. She is one random historian writing a perfectly timed smear article for the 2008 election, and the article is basically nothing but innuendo (yes, I read it).

Choose your sources wisely.
 
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madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
You just copied what she said about herself in the article ... you have no idea who she is. She is one random historian writing a perfectly timed smear article for the 2008 election, and the article is basically nothing but innuendo (yes, I read it).

Choose your sources wisely.

Wrong son. Maybe you should take your own advice. Unlike you, I actually looked her up. Her credentials are legit and I mentioned that she wrote bookS, because I noticed that she has another book on the Vietnam War.

She's done her research on McCain:

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/news-features/what-is-the-true-story-of-mccains-wartime-experience

Journalists have had years to vet John McCain’s account of wartime heroism in Vietnam. But no real critique of its veracity has emerged from leading media outlets. Reporters and commentators remain remarkably disinclined to investigate a major underpinning of McCain’s argument that he is qualified to be commander-in-chief. Here, historian Mary Hershberger questions why.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,205
4,786
136
Hmmm. . . who to believe. Professor of history who has written books on the Vietnam War and is the recipient of the Binkley-Stephenson award (given annually for the best scholarly article in the Journal of American History) or Snopes. . .

Well, you were 100% wrong about the "Songbird McCain" thing, so your sources are suspect at best after that. And your own source, the lauded professor of history, even said that the official report concluded that no individual bore responsibility for the fire or its spread so your "Helped kill 134 fellow sailors" is BS.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,156
4,496
136
Wrong son. Maybe you should take your own advice. Unlike you, I actually looked her up. Her credentials are legit and I mentioned that she wrote bookS, because I noticed that she has another book on the Vietnam War.

She's done her research on McCain:

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/news-features/what-is-the-true-story-of-mccains-wartime-experience

Argument from authority, not substance. On top of that nothing in the article you linked is convincing, sources are suspect, and it's "coincidentally" timed for the 2008 election. I'll take the official report and 50 years of journalism over one obviously biased historian, thanks.

Please keep it out of this thread
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,181
901
126
Whoa... you spend 10 years on an internet forum with someone, figure 'ok that guy is a little off with his gun collection but otherwise seems normal enough' and then all that is shattered in a series of a couple posts. I'm guessing this would have been revealed to me sooner if I ever ventured into the cesspool of P&N.

By the way, John McCain killed JFK. It's on the internet now so it must be true.
 

Hoober

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2001
4,391
39
91
Whoa... you spend 10 years on an internet forum with someone, figure 'ok that guy is a little off with his gun collection but otherwise seems normal enough' and then all that is shattered in a series of a couple posts. I'm guessing this would have been revealed to me sooner if I ever ventured into the cesspool of P&N.

By the way, John McCain killed JFK. It's on the internet now so it must be true.

You've been here long enough by now to see the fallacy in that line of thinking -- the line about spending 10 years on a forum with a dude. Not McCain killing Kennedy.
 

DanTMWTMP

Lifer
Oct 7, 2001
15,908
19
81
Well pretty much confirmed Madoka is a closed-minded troll/idiot who refuses to even see the errors of his own opinions. I wish there was a function to block any posts by the guy
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,763
10,356
146
A final statement from Sen. John McCain, who died Saturday at 81, read by his spokesman Rick Davis:

My fellow Americans, whom I have gratefully served for 60 years, and especially my fellow Arizonians, thank you for the privilege of serving you and for the rewarding life that service in uniform and in public office has allowed me to lead. I've tried to serve our country honorably. I've made mistakes, but I hope my love for America will be weighed favorably against them. I've often observed that I am the luckiest person on Earth. I feel that way even now as I prepare for the end of my life. I've loved my life, all of it.


I've had experiences, adventures, friendships enough for ten satisfying lives and I am so thankful. Like most people, I have regrets but I would not trade a day of my life in good or bad times for the best day of anybody else's. I owe the satisfaction to the love of my family. One man has never had a more loving wife or children he was prouder of than I am of mine. And I owe it to America to be connected with America's causes, liberty, equal justice, respect for the dignity of all people brings happiness more sublime that life's fleeting pleasures. Our identities and sense of worth are not circumscribed but are enlarged by serving good causes bigger than ourselves.

My fellow Americans, whom I have gratefully served for 60 years, and especially my fellow Arizonians, thank you for the privilege of serving you and for the rewarding life that service in uniform and in public office has allowed me to lead. I've tried to serve our country honorably. I've made mistakes, but I hope my love for America will be weighed favorably against them. I've often observed that I am the luckiest person on Earth. I feel that way even now as I prepare for the end of my life. I've loved my life, all of it.

I've had experiences, adventures, friendships enough for ten satisfying lives and I am so thankful. Like most people, I have regrets but I would not trade a day of my life in good or bad times for the best day of anybody else's. I owe the satisfaction to the love of my family. One man has never had a more loving wife or children he was prouder of than I am of mine. And I owe it to America to be connected with America's causes, liberty, equal justice, respect for the dignity of all people brings happiness more sublime that life's fleeting pleasures. Our identities and sense of worth are not circumscribed but are enlarged by serving good causes bigger than ourselves.

Fellow Americans, that association has meant more to me than any other. I lived and died a proud American. We are citizens of the world's greatest republic. A nation of ideals, not blood and soil. We are blessed and a blessing to humanity when we uphold and advance those ideals at home and in the world. We have helped liberate more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. We have acquired great wealth and power in the progress. We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. We weaken it when we hide behind walls rather than tear them down, when we doubt the power of our ideals rather than trust them to be the great force for change they have always been. We are 325 million opinionated, vociferous individuals. We argue and compete and sometimes even vilify each other in our raucous public debates.

But, we have always had so much more in common with each other than in disagreement. If only we remember that and give each other the benefit of the presumption that we all love our country, we'll get through these challenging times. We will come through them stronger than before. We always do. Ten years ago, I had the privilege to concede defeat in the election for president. I want to end my farewell to you with heartfelt faith in Americans that I felt so powerfully that evening. I feel it powerfully still. Do not despair of our present difficulties, we believe always in the promise and greatness of America because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit, we never surrender, we never hide from history, we make history. Farewell fellow Americans. God bless you and god bless America.

^^^ I have disagreed with the political positions of John McCain far more often than otherwise, but I have never doubted this quintessential American's courage or deep personal integrity.

At the time of his imprisonment in the Hanoi Hilton, John Sydney McCain lll was a Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy. My father was a Lieutenant Commander (and combat veteran) in the US Navy as well. I am proud that my Dad shared this rank with him. Both men answered their country's call.

My Dad set foot on Japanese soil, touring Tokyo with other officers, one week before the armistice was signed. He saw his sister ship blown to smithereens by a Japanese midget sub that got under the protective net while the 7th Fleet was at rest in Ulithi atoll.

Captain Bone Spurs, otoh, is an ignorant disgrace to our flag, our country, and our highest ideals.
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
I'm so conflicted on my opinion of McCain. He seemed to be one of the biggest opponents to Obamacare, but ended up being basically the tiebreaker vote for keeping it from bring repealed later on.

It's almost like he saw the medical bills for his brain surgery, and had a sudden realization that no working class person would be able to afford these bills with the basically worthless "value" health insurance plans that they Republicans were proposing to replace Obamacare.

I had the misfortune of having a "value" health insurance plan like that earlier in my life, and the "insurance" card they gave me was only good for generating insurance rejection letters saying either:

1) That was either over my insanely low annual coverage cap (something stupid like $2,000 for ER visits, WTF?)
2) That my procedure wasn't covered at all because of a pre-existing condition.

Obamacare might not be great, but at least it made those two issues I mentioned above disappear.