Riots in Tunisia/Egypt due to have's vs have nots. USA's turn soon?

[nick1985]

Ya ok riots.
I suppose if the righties get their way and welfare is cut, and people are left to die in the streets instead if getting medical attention. There is going to be riots
But I still believe there is good in America and that won't happen.

How about the other side of the coin you provided? Lets not cut entitlements and go bankrupt. SS, Medicare/Medicaid are drowning this nation.

As of this second, there is 93 TRILLION dollars in unfunded liabilities for those two entitlements alone. 93 fucking trillion.

By 2015 that number is 114 trillion.

I submit to you that not cutting entitlement spending will lead to a disaster far greater than cutting them.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Cant make this iPad scroll enough to edit my post

Edit- I believe there are still enough people in America with real morals not to let that happen

 

[nick1985]

Cant make this iPad scroll enough to edit my post

Edit- I believe there are still enough people in America with real morals not to let that happen

I agree there are a lot of good people here too. However, with inflation/hyperinflation when we are cut off from the foreign teet will make the cost of goods skyrocket. There will be chaos in the streets if this happens, it will be every man for himself. People who are normally good will turn violent.

Again, this is a worst-case scenario. Do I feel that this specific scenario will happen? Eh, maybe, maybe not. But I do feel bad times are ahead. I can respect your optimistic attitude, but by just looking at the numbers there isn't much to be optimistic about.

 

[Orignal Earl]

How about the other side of the coin you provided? Lets not cut entitlements and go bankrupt. SS, Medicare/Medicaid are drowning this nation.

As of this second, there is 93 TRILLION dollars in unfunded liabilities for those two entitlements alone. 93 fucking trillion.

By 2015 that number is 114 trillion.

I submit to you that not cutting entitlement spending will lead to a disaster far greater than cutting them.

Ya, America is not going to be a top dog in the world anymore, but that is not the end.
You may end up with a lot of suicides who have based their lifes on leeching American accomplishments to give their lives significance

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ya, America is not going to be a top dog in the world anymore, but that is not the end.
You may end up with a lot of suicides who have based their lifes on leeching American accomplishments to give their lives significance

I think America will be the top dog for a long, long time. For all the press about China, they have 5x the population of the US so of course at some point, they're going to pass us in terms of the size of their economy. However, in terms of GDP per capita and standard of living, they may never catch the US. The innovation in the world still happens in predominantly western countries or countries heavily influenced by the west, such as Japan and South Korea.

Those are the positives I see. The negatives are that I don't think you can base an entire economy on being "innovative." That's where I disagree with some of the politicians who say things like manufacturing isn't important and America will be the world's innovator. For starters, not everyone can be an "innovator." That generally requires an advanced education and even with the current emphasis on education, you're not going to catch the majority. We need well-paying jobs for the average joes of the US -- not everyone can go to MIT or Harvard. The middle class drives this economy and that's why it is vital they have a good standard of living.

And lastly, the economic situation of the US will become critical at some point. It is best to address that now rather than wait until we have no choice but to address it, as it will be much worse then. We're going to have to cut defense and social programs, along with raising taxes, if we want to tackle the problem in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[boomerang]

Serious?
Haven't you had enough of that yet. Maybe you'll go along for the ride this time.

Your assumption that I am proposing or condoning such an action would be totally incorrect.

 

[nick1985]

And lastly, the economic situation of the US will become critical at some point. It is best to address that now rather than wait until we have no choice but to address it, as it will be much worse than. We're going to have to cut defense and social programs, along with raising taxes, if we want to tackle the problem in any reasonable amount of time.

And neither party has the balls to do it. Paul Ryan does, but nobody from the GOP will go along with his plans because its political suicide.

 

[boomerang]

Sputnik Moment -- or GM Moment?

His GM analogy doesn't quite work for me but a few statements in the article I think are very telling of the path our leaders envision for us.

But listening to the president speak Tuesday night, one came away with a distinct impression. Either Obama does not believe this country is careening toward a fiscal and financial crisis, or he refuses to pay the political price of imposing the sacrifices needed to lead the country back from the brink.

The day after the president spoke, the Congressional Budget Office estimated the deficit this fiscal year at $1.5 trillion, largest in peacetime history and 10 percent of the entire U.S. economy. Almost 40 percent of the budget will be financed this year by borrowing from our own citizens and foreign countries, China foremost among them.

Did anyone detect in the president's pleasant demeanor that night any sense of urgency, any sense that this time the wolf is really at the door? Did anyone hear a call for sacrifices, and not just small ones, to pull our country back from the precipice of national default?

The disconnect between the Tea Party Republicans and the president could not be greater. He is talking about bullet trains and infrastructure; they are talking of defunding Amtrak and the Washington, D.C., subway system.

They are talking about raising the retirement age for Social Security, which is now sending out more in monthly checks than it is taking in in payroll taxes. Obama is being congratulated by the liberal wing of his party for refusing even to bow in that direction.

This President, this administration, is flat out not going to address our problems. Nothing has changed. The mantra, the vision, is still the misguided methodology that we can spend our way out of this mess. Control of the House changed hands this fall on a wave of public sentiment to cease the spending and rein in government.

It's fallen on deaf ears. They continue as though deaf and blind.

 

[dmcowen674]

The average American doesn't have the independent ability to reason themselves into revolt, they just do what they're told or manipulated into believing.

Revolutions are most often started or pushed along by the academics, and intelligent oppressed people.

You are exactly right and that is the tipping point that was reached in the Egypt area. You have the large majority of the educated people with advanced degrees cannot find work or afford a loaf of bread.

This is why that area is on fire.

The same will happen in the U.S. once it reaches that point as well.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I do not think a riot will happen soon nationwide. If there is no more food, the poor parts of the towns/ cities will start first as usual because these groups of people have no resources or savings to fall back to.

To switch to the Middle East :
What worries me the most, is that when militant fundamental idiots take government control of Egypt and Tunisia, a war will break out in the middle east where Israel will be the scapegoat and target. 2012 being a self-fulfilling prophecy also in the ME, i would not be surprised if something more drastic than usual would happen in the ME. It could get rather ugly and very seriously ,very fast.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Ha no it's not going to happen here any time soon.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

You know what the biggest problem in the world is? Stupidity pays off. Stupid people making boatloads of money. There is no incentive to become educated when you pay people exorbitant amounts of money to run into each other on purpose on a playing field. Even most animals (short of rams) have enough sense not to run into each other on purpose. Also, gambling is a pastime not a career (ahem wall st.)

These are the worst arguments I have ever read. The real problem is that people are paid enormous amounts of money to not create anything, ie Wall Street/lawyers. These people manipulate and argue; they do not actually contribute anything (except the honest investors who sustain companies).

 

[Icepick]

Ha no it's not going to happen here any time soon.

Agreed. The only thing I see sparking riots is a prolonged food shortage crisis. I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Icepick]

Sputnik Moment -- or GM Moment?

His GM analogy doesn't quite work for me but a few statements in the article I think are very telling of the path our leaders envision for us.



This President, this administration, is flat out not going to address our problems. Nothing has changed. The mantra, the vision, is still the misguided methodology that we can spend our way out of this mess. Control of the House changed hands this fall on a wave of public sentiment to cease the spending and rein in government.

It's fallen on deaf ears. They continue as though deaf and blind.

No. We need to get leaders with balls enough to tax the rich. They also need to shift spending from defense to social welness programs such as national health care and social security. Then we can fund a decent retirement system and provide health care for hard working Americans.

 

[nick1985]

Ha no it's not going to happen here any time soon.

Not even if China stops lending to us?

 

[Zedtom]

The speculation on future events always assumes that only the most poor of the oppressed will suffer enough to head out into the streets. I always like to bring up the subject of electrical power.

Electricity is the great equalizer that affects every person. With the power shut off, we are helpless. The survivalists might have generators, but they need fuel. Hospitals and essential facilities might have backups, but they can't run forever. Without power the masses can be easily controlled and will be ready to submit to anything just so they can have their fast food and cell phones.

 

[theeedude]

Sputnik Moment -- or GM Moment?

His GM analogy doesn't quite work for me but a few statements in the article I think are very telling of the path our leaders envision for us.



This President, this administration, is flat out not going to address our problems. Nothing has changed. The mantra, the vision, is still the misguided methodology that we can spend our way out of this mess. Control of the House changed hands this fall on a wave of public sentiment to cease the spending and rein in government.

It's fallen on deaf ears. They continue as though deaf and blind.

GOP joined him in extending tax cuts we couldn't afford. So they have zero credibility on the deficit.

 

[Patranus]

No. We need to get leaders with balls enough to tax the rich. They also need to shift spending from defense to social welness programs such as national health care and social security. Then we can fund a decent retirement system and provide health care for hard working Americans.

What the hell are you talking about?

The top 50% pays 97.3% of all taxes.
The bottom 47% pay zero taxes or get money back.
The middle 3% pays 2.7% of all taxes.

What do you mean the leaders have to get balls to tax the rich?
The group that isn't being taxes is the "poor".

Leaders in America need to get balls to institute a "fair" tax where everyone pays their fair share.

 

[db]

Our elected officials serve Big Business and the ultra wealthy. Both parties are guilty.

Our elected officials PRETEND to represent You The People. There is a difference between what they SAY and what they DO. Watch what they do, not what they say.

And for God's sake, stop listening to one news source. Get your news from all sides, within and from without, and make yourself aware.

As for Egypt, nobody is "running" the revolution. Both poor and wealthy are in the street protesting b/c they are sick of high unemployment, way too strict security laws, inadequate rights and government's lack of respect for them as citizens and human beings.

 

[crownjules]

I am having a hard time imagining a revolution in a country where the hardest struggle for most people, especially the poor, is to not eat too much.

Why do you say that? You have no further to look than your very own country (assuming you're in the US) to see that means nothing.

The American colonies pre-Revolution were not destitute. Tobacco and cotton in the south and lumber and ship building in the north created vast sums of wealth for the colonies. The colonists were not poor by any means and yet they revolted against their British sovereign because of a simple ideal - they wanted fair representation.

Money equals power, and that is being stratified into the elite upper class. As has been mentioned already in this thread, they control more wealth now than they ever have in the history of the US and continue that accrual. When the general population's voice is snuffed out because a corporation can spend millions of dollars to get what they want, what would you call that but a lack of representation?

It wasn't the poor that started the American Revolution. It was intellectuals and idealists that planted the seeds of dissent. And it only takes events like the Boston Massacre to get the general populace on board.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Why do you say that? You have no further to look than your very own country (assuming you're in the US) to see that means nothing.

You forgot about using slaves to achieve that.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Not even if China stops lending to us?

Fear much? Good lord man how do you live worrying about shit you have no control over? If China stops lending to us? WTF? Yeah I walk around all day pondering a US that is no longer loaned money by the Chinese. That makes it so much better.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

How about the other side of the coin you provided? Lets not cut entitlements and go bankrupt. SS, Medicare/Medicaid are drowning this nation.

It's our government's and the wealthy's war against the middle and lower classes that's drowning the nation. If we hadn't sent millions of middle class jobs overseas, filled them with foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, or imported millions of immigrants to depress wages then perhaps the lower classes would be able to provide more tax revenue and would have less need. It would also help if we would start taxing the rich.

I don't think allowing the elderly and the poor to starve or to die of homeless or lack of basic health care is the solution. I disagree with the inherent claim that large percentages of the American people need to live like people do in the third world.

 

[disappoint]

You know what the biggest problem in the world is? Stupidity pays off. Stupid people making boatloads of money. There is no incentive to become educated when you pay people exorbitant amounts of money to run into each other on purpose on a playing field. Even most animals (short of rams) have enough sense not to run into each other on purpose. Also, gambling is a pastime not a career (ahem wall st.)

These are the worst arguments I have ever read. The real problem is that people are paid enormous amounts of money to not create anything, ie Wall Street/lawyers. These people manipulate and argue; they do not actually contribute anything (except the honest investors who sustain companies).

Do you make a habit out of agreeing with the worst arguments you've ever read? In other words: Are you feeling alright?

 

[crownjules]

You forgot about using slaves to achieve that.

I didn't forget, that just doesn't really bear any relevance to the discussion at hand. Specifically, the slaves had nothing to do with the beginnings of our revolution. They were the economic workhouse of the south that enabled the wealth of the southern colonies for sure.

You should have also mentioned the whole kicking natives off their lands that they had inhabited for many millenia to make room for colonists and their industry.