Right or wrong: The laws of science VS Choice

Tash

Senior member
Apr 20, 2001
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Some people believe that the laws of chemistry and physics control everything. Does that assumption conclude that people have no choice? How can 'choice' exist in that scenario? Wouldn't all your thoughts be determined by chemical reactions in your brain?
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tash
Some people believe that the laws of chemistry and physics control everything. Does that assumption conclude that people have no choice? How can 'choice' exist in that scenario? Wouldn't all your thoughts be determined by chemical reactions in your brain?

The choice you make is chemical. It's based on what's in your brain, yes. That is free choice, from your point of view.
 

Rebasxer

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2005
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Sentience isn't chemical, it may come from a chemical process, but sentience itself is not chemical.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
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Originally posted by: Rebasxer
Sentience isn't chemical, it may come from a chemical process, but sentience itself is not chemical.

sentience is 'merely' a by-product of the anatomical structures/ chemical processes
 

Tash

Senior member
Apr 20, 2001
552
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What if chemical reactions allow for choice?
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What are you talking about? Did your chemistry class teach you that chemicals have a choice as to whether they will react with one another?



And what is 'Sentience' ????
 

cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
10,079
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EDIT: To sum up all the crap below:
Yes, our responses can be accurately predicted, so we technically do not have "free choice".
However, we can't actually predict them, so it does'nt matter anyway.

Sentience is just a measure of the brain's ability to create new concepts based on old ones. For example, a dog may be farily intelligent, but they cannot come up with the concept that a car may pull a trailer despite the fact that they know full well that a car is something that goes forward, and a trailer is something that needs to be pulled.
The brain's processing ability is based on a complex network of neurons that run via electrochemical processes. What we are is based on said processes; the network that is formed is what differentiates Cab Calloway from Mao. The fact that we cannot accurately predict said processes down to the sub-atomic level (see heisenberg uncertianty principle) means that, even with the same set of stimuli and past experiences, our responses may vary, if only very slightly.
(In other words, if you ask someone to pick a number between 1 and 5, they might pick 2 or 3; it's not entirely possible to calculate it exactly.)
Of course, if you had a computer of infinite size and exact data of the positions of the protons, neutrons, and electrons within the atoms that make up a brain, it might be possible to predict what we do. However, such a computer would have to be larger than the universe itself, so that's not really a possibility.
 

Tash

Senior member
Apr 20, 2001
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Interesting. You HAD to respond the way you did to this question. You had no choice. Wow. That really takes away all meaning to life, doesn't it?
 

mchammer

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
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Originally posted by: Tash
Interesting. You HAD to respond the way you did to this question. You had no choice. Wow. That really takes away all meaning to life, doesn't it?


No, you should go outside more.
 

Rebasxer

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2005
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Comes down to religious/philosophical belief whether humans have something more them chemicals, some would say yes, some no.
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Originally posted by: OulOat
If God is all knowing and all powerful, how can we have free choice?
Yeah we could all be God's puppets, but apparently he didn't want that. That's why we can choose to do what God wants, or not.
 

OulOat

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: OulOat
If God is all knowing and all powerful, how can we have free choice?

If he truly is all powerful, how can he NOT give us free choice?

But then he can't be all knowing, since if we are free to do what we choose, God cannot know ahead of time.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: Tash
Do I have a choice?
Try lying down in bed for a week without getting out of bed.

BTW, I believe that math/physics/chemistry can explain everything that happens, but they don't have any control over anything.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
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Originally posted by: Tash
Interesting. You HAD to respond the way you did to this question. You had no choice. Wow. That really takes away all meaning to life, doesn't it?

Why do you assume life has to have meaning?
 

Tash

Senior member
Apr 20, 2001
552
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Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Tash
Interesting. You HAD to respond the way you did to this question. You had no choice. Wow. That really takes away all meaning to life, doesn't it?

Why do you assume life has to have meaning?


Judging from your signature on "Sin" and "Virtue" - you are obviously looking for some meaning in life. - Or maybe the chemistry in your brain made you write it.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: Tash
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: Tash
Interesting. You HAD to respond the way you did to this question. You had no choice. Wow. That really takes away all meaning to life, doesn't it?

Why do you assume life has to have meaning?


Judging from your signature on "Sin" and "Virtue" - you are obviously looking for some meaning in life. - Or maybe the chemistry in your brain made you write it.

I am not looking for meaning in life. The first quote relates my feeling that religion is both arbitrary and stupid, and the second quote has no intrinsic meaning to me. I just found it pretty cool.