Riddle Me This About Gas

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jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
583
0
0
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: jjoyner
Originally posted by: KK
If it was a supply and demand problem, then since 3 years ago it was half the price it is today, does that mean there is half the oil coming in as then. I have yet to see a gas station close because they didn't have gas, now why is that?

That's called inflation...that happens too...

You don't see gas stations close...but you will see them cover the pump with a bag and say they are out of a certain grade..

I never said shortage...ever....But the common principle applies here...


Why hasn't my mcdonalds double cheeseburger gone up to 2 bucks then? I haven't seen the bag on the pump anywhere, unless the pump was broken. I doubt it was a lack of gas as they probably all use the same tanks.
McDs has other products, you can't compare their sale priced product vs. a single product company. What about the price of colas? That's gone up (up in price, or down in size, or BOTH) just about everywhere.

Of course you don't tend to buy just a hamburger, you get fries and a drink. They can make up a loss leading product with a higher margin on other complementary products.

Take an economics class, this is fairly simple stuff.

I :heart: Phoenix86

 

Pantoot

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2002
1,764
30
91
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Second, the answer to EVERY economics questions is supply and demand.

Unfortunately, in this case the supply is being artificially manipulated. Just like how diamonds cost around a thousand dollars a carat.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
Q: Why does gas cost so much? Can't something be done about prices in terms of production costs?

A: Gas costs "so much" because companies can charge "so much" and get away with it. Any savings is passed on to the groups who are in the fuel business to make money, not to the consumer.... and it's good, too.

No matter what the cost of gas is, the consumer will continue to buy and use it like it doesn't cost a thing. We'll complain when we put the gas in the car, but then every mile we're on the road we don't have any problem with taking the extra trips here and there to do something we really don't need to.

Yes, it totally sucks for people that have long commutes and have to spend an extra $100 a year in gas, because we'd all like an extra $100, but when you get right down to it, it's surprising that gas isn't well over $3/gallon now.


 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: jjoyner
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: jjoyner
Originally posted by: KK
If it was a supply and demand problem, then since 3 years ago it was half the price it is today, does that mean there is half the oil coming in as then. I have yet to see a gas station close because they didn't have gas, now why is that?

That's called inflation...that happens too...

You don't see gas stations close...but you will see them cover the pump with a bag and say they are out of a certain grade..

I never said shortage...ever....But the common principle applies here...


Why hasn't my mcdonalds double cheeseburger gone up to 2 bucks then? I haven't seen the bag on the pump anywhere, unless the pump was broken. I doubt it was a lack of gas as they probably all use the same tanks.
McDs has other products, you can't compare their sale priced product vs. a single product company. What about the price of colas? That's gone up (up in price, or down in size, or BOTH) just about everywhere.

Of course you don't tend to buy just a hamburger, you get fries and a drink. They can make up a loss leading product with a higher margin on other complementary products.

Take an economics class, this is fairly simple stuff.

I :heart: Phoenix86

I was only giving one example to make it simple to make a point, but I guess that went over some heads. Overall inflation did not rise 100% in three years.
 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
583
0
0
Originally posted by: Injury
Q: Why does gas cost so much? Can't something be done about prices in terms of production costs?

A: Gas costs "so much" because companies can charge "so much" and get away with it. Any savings is passed on to the groups who are in the fuel business to make money, not to the consumer.... and it's good, too.

A similar principle applies to healthcare...the cost rises, yet demand is still solid and no one can do anything about it...but those doctors make it good on our pockets

America strives off of petroleum, we cannot survive without it, and therefore we pay a hefty sum in order to import the majority of it...

Now that we are making Swiss Cheese out of Alaska, I doubt the end justifies the means....but if it saves Corporate America $.20 a gallon on gas, who cares, right?
 

Pantoot

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2002
1,764
30
91
Originally posted by: KK
I was only giving one example to make it simple to make a point, but I guess that went over some heads. Overall inflation did not rise 100% in three years.

Two years ago I bought 2 big macs for $2. Now a big mac costs something like $2.50.
(actually, I have no idea how much a big mac costs now. ) Just because something used to be cheaper doesn't mean that was the 'right' price.
 

Kishan

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2004
2,580
0
0
Originally posted by: royaldank
Originally posted by: broon
There is no need to lower the price to gain market share. In my town there are really only two companies, BP and Conoco. The stores really don't make that much on the gas, it's what they sell inside. That's why Conoco gives discounts on gas when you buy stuff in the store.

Gas stations make next to nothing on the fuel. It's not uncommon for gas sales to only be 1%-5% of their revenue.

You mean GP? Can't be revenue.
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
Originally posted by: Injury
Q: Why does gas cost so much? Can't something be done about prices in terms of production costs?

A: Gas costs "so much" because companies can charge "so much" and get away with it. Any savings is passed on to the groups who are in the fuel business to make money, not to the consumer.... and it's good, too.

No matter what the cost of gas is, the consumer will continue to buy and use it like it doesn't cost a thing. We'll complain when we put the gas in the car, but then every mile we're on the road we don't have any problem with taking the extra trips here and there to do something we really don't need to.

Yes, it totally sucks for people that have long commutes and have to spend an extra $100 a year in gas, because we'd all like an extra $100, but when you get right down to it, it's surprising that gas isn't well over $3/gallon now.

Oil companies raise prices by limiting production. They limit production because they can and so they make more money. Some of the cost is due to refining also. There are fewer refineries in the US thanks to clean air programs which also causes gas to cost more.

The McDonalds analogy doesn't quite fit unless you want to talk about the soda. $1.95 for a soda/iced tea shows inflation has made it's mark on the resturaunt industry. Except it only costs about 10 cents/glass to make soda.
 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
583
0
0
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: jjoyner
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: jjoyner
Originally posted by: KK
If it was a supply and demand problem, then since 3 years ago it was half the price it is today, does that mean there is half the oil coming in as then. I have yet to see a gas station close because they didn't have gas, now why is that?

That's called inflation...that happens too...

You don't see gas stations close...but you will see them cover the pump with a bag and say they are out of a certain grade..

I never said shortage...ever....But the common principle applies here...


Why hasn't my mcdonalds double cheeseburger gone up to 2 bucks then? I haven't seen the bag on the pump anywhere, unless the pump was broken. I doubt it was a lack of gas as they probably all use the same tanks.
McDs has other products, you can't compare their sale priced product vs. a single product company. What about the price of colas? That's gone up (up in price, or down in size, or BOTH) just about everywhere.

Of course you don't tend to buy just a hamburger, you get fries and a drink. They can make up a loss leading product with a higher margin on other complementary products.

Take an economics class, this is fairly simple stuff.

I :heart: Phoenix86

I was only giving one example to make it simple to make a point, but I guess that went over some heads. Overall inflation did not rise 100% in three years.


No it didn't, but inflation is not the main cause of this rise...

1-Inflation
2-Supply/Demand (prolly biggest issue)
3-Oil execs with greed pockets...

Some ppl are relating Supply and Demand to a relative shortage...which is not true...You can have a loss and still produce, but not create a shortage...Any fluctuation in production can yeild an equivelant shift in price, especially to the consumer...

Everything "petro" based on it's price-axis has been heavily affected in the past ten years...
-Natural Gas
-Car prices
-Gasoline/Diesel
-Even oil changes (relative the cost in oil, and wage increases)

Inflation is not rational across the board. Milk used to be $1.50 now it's $3...but it took awhile to get there. Fastfood is more expensive...I don't think you will find a heavily used resource that has yet to be affected by inflation...

Then you can also get into the inflation/deflation caused by technology/discoveries...like how laptops used to cost $3,000 and now you can get one that is 100X better and only costs $500 AR...The technology was cheaper...

And then you also can see the affect of our petro useage...we are nearly scrambling to come up with a new fuel source...

The shortage isn't here, but it is coming..


 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: jjoyner
I :heart: Phoenix86
:eek:

Originally posted by: KK
I was only giving one example to make it simple to make a point, but I guess that went over some heads. Overall inflation did not rise 100% in three years.
It was a horrible example, but you are right about inflation rates. Also, oil != gas, yet you directly comapred the two. It's still a supply and demand issue, even if it's fears of supply and demand...
 

Pantoot

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2002
1,764
30
91
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Sounds a LOT like supply and demand. Thank you very much, insert $.25 and play again.

Did it look like I thought that supply wasn't a part of supply and demand?
 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
583
0
0
Originally posted by: Pantoot
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Sounds a LOT like supply and demand. Thank you very much, insert $.25 and play again.

Did it look like I thought that supply wasn't a part of supply and demand?

:shocked:
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Phoenix86

McDs has other products, you can't compare their sale priced product vs. a single product company. What about the price of colas? That's gone up (up in price, or down in size, or BOTH) just about everywhere.

Of course you don't tend to buy just a hamburger, you get fries and a drink. They can make up a loss leading product with a higher margin on other complementary products.

Take an economics class, this is fairly simple stuff.

You completely missed his point. The other posted gave inflation as the reason gas prices doubled in the last few years. It was incorrect. He gave McD's as an example that other products did not double in price. Again, it's because the doubled price in gas is NOT due to inflation.

You got lost in the details and missed his overall point, which is that inflation is not the reason that gas prices have doubled in a few years.



 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
By the way, in the past OPEC was able to control oil prices since they had the ability to adjust supply enough to meet the damand. Just recently OPEC announced that they'd lost control of the market. They can no longer control prices by increasing supply.

linky
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
By the way, in the past OPEC was able to control oil prices since they had the ability to adjust supply enough to meet the damand. Just recently OPEC announced that they'd lost control of the market. They can no longer control prices by increasing supply.

linky

Not sure I believe everyting a cartel says. Doesn't really matter, from what I understand (I'm not an expert) the US gets most of it's oil from South America, and that OPEC doesn't have anything to do with it.
 

Turkey22

Senior member
Nov 28, 2001
840
0
0
People keep yelling supply and demand, then proceeding to only talk about supply. Demand is a very large factor in current price increases from what I hear. The primary increase in demand is apparently the industrialization of China. Their consumption is growing at an alarming rate and isn't showing and signs of slowing down yet. While their consumption is no where near the US yet, I'm sure it has been a major factor along with the fear of supply running out as demand increases.
 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
583
0
0
From my second post in this thread...

Changes in demand of any of these crude oil-based products can affect gasoline prices. Weather also has an impact - demand for gasoline increases in the spring and summer months as people drive more. However, this increased demand also increase prices for crude oil, much the way more bids for an auction item increase the price.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: broon


Not sure I believe everyting a cartel says. Doesn't really matter, from what I understand (I'm not an expert) the US gets most of it's oil from South America, and that OPEC doesn't have anything to do with it.

First of all, the US gets most of its oil from Canada. Secondly, the biggest oil produced in South America is Venezuela, and they're a member of OPEC.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Turkey22
People keep yelling supply and demand, then proceeding to only talk about supply. Demand is a very large factor in current price increases from what I hear. The primary increase in demand is apparently the industrialization of China. Their consumption is growing at an alarming rate and isn't showing and signs of slowing down yet. While their consumption is no where near the US yet, I'm sure it has been a major factor along with the fear of supply running out as demand increases.

But on a world scale, the demand is pretty steady. It's rising, but it's rising steadily. That can't account for the wild fluctuations in gas prices. Besides, demand isn't going down, but occasionally the prices drop drastically.
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: broon


Not sure I believe everyting a cartel says. Doesn't really matter, from what I understand (I'm not an expert) the US gets most of it's oil from South America, and that OPEC doesn't have anything to do with it.

First of all, the US gets most of its oil from Canada. Secondly, the biggest oil produced in South America is Venezuela, and they're a member of OPEC.

Like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm still not going to believe a cartel without corroberation.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: broon

Like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm still not going to believe a cartel without corroberation.

I agree on that part, I wouldn't blindly believe them either, especially when their best interest isn't to ensure that oil prices are as cheap as possible, their goal is to make as much money as possible.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
the increase in the price of crude has more to do with china than any other factor. two reasons for this. first, the decline of the dollar is directly related to our trade deficit, much of the increase of which is chinese. there are so many dollars swimming around internationally that the value of them is declining. the second reason is that china itself is buying more oil. a lot more oil. so, increased demand for oil raises the price, and decrease in the value of the dollar raises the price of everything purchased with dollars.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
156
106
Lots of misinformed people in this thread.
Prices rose during W's first term, and everytime the public squealed, he made a speech or released some reserves.
No, the last time the reserves were tapped was by Clinton in 2000.
First of all, the US gets most of its oil from Canada.
Canada does not supply most of the US oil. They supply 17% (2003 data).
Gas prices are the same becuse they are regulated by the fed.
No.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: broon

Like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm still not going to believe a cartel without corroberation.

I agree on that part, I wouldn't blindly believe them either, especially when their best interest isn't to ensure that oil prices are as cheap as possible, their goal is to make as much money as possible.

you missed half of OPEC's interest. sure, it isn't in their best interest that the price drop to where their wells aren't making a profit, but it also isn't in their best interest that the price rise to where other existing wells and new exploration is profitable. if that is the case then the supply of oil rises independent of their action.